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RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/29/2009 7:54:18 PM

sunshinemiss

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Well candy, let me ask you... what is the difference between the emotion of grief and the action of grief?

You are correct that you can't stop all that an emotion brings with it, but you sure can stop the stuff that gets in the way. There are things that will never go away, emotions that will only be managed. Just because you feel it doesn't mean your interpretation of it is true (you in the broad sense not you personally

)
best,
sunshine

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Post #: 21

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/29/2009 8:19:13 PM

breatheasone

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Sunshine, to me the difference is... On the one hand, i feel the grief, but i do not act on those feelings. i chose to lock down showing, or doing anything to express how i am feeling ( in this case grief) On the other hand, i feel the grief, and i allow myself to express the grief. (in any of a variety of ways)

Now granted this is the bare bones, and doesn't elaborate on types of behavior and such. If you would like to add unhealthiness to the mix thats cool, i'm game

btw... i feel that an unhealthy reaction to grief is a good reason for cognitive behavior mod.

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Post #: 22

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/29/2009 9:46:00 PM

sunshinemiss

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I'm with you. I think we may be looking at the same thing from different angles and in the end basically agree... Or maybe not? meh.

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Post #: 23

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/29/2009 9:47:43 PM

breatheasone

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LMAO...is it scary that i understood every word?

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Post #: 24

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/29/2009 10:38:07 PM

InvisibleBlack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

My question, to each of you, as a Dom is: Do you know how to spot an emotional issue vs. a behavioral one? Do you think it's important for you to know the difference?

I think many times this is trickier than it seems at first blush. Emotional problems generally don't surface early in the relationship unless they're extreme. People tend to put their best face forward during those early dating stages - not being deliberately deceptive but both sides looking for finding areas in common and things of mutual interest. Well. Okay. I did have a woman tell me she had multiple personality disorder in the middle of dinner on our first date - but I think she's an exception to the general trend.

Quite often deep-seated emotional issues surface as repeated behavioral problems - and it's only over time that someone can see enough of the picture to go "wait a minute - there's a real problem here". Obviously if someone calls you twenty times a day for two days and then sets your car on fire you know something's wrong there - but issues of depression or apathy or anxiety may take some time to become apparent.

Once they do become apparent - obviously people vary on their ability to handle them - I don't think the variance is that different than it is out in the 'normal' world of dating. My 'nilla friends all have their own list of "crazy girlfriend" stories.

Obviously, I think it's important to recognize the difference between a behavior that can be corrected and an emotional problem, which isn't something that can be solved with a a good spanking or a hug and a gentle conversation. In fact, I would say in my experience, if a Dom establishes an environment where the sub feels safe and protected and secure - often problems that have been repressed or kept inside will surface just as the relationship is growing strong - exactly because the support is now there and it's safe to express things that before could not be let out.

At the end of the day, a D/s relationship is still a relationship and all anyone can do for their partner is be supportive and understanding and provide stability while they work out whatever it is they need to work out. It's not a substitute for professional treatment. I think that any decent Dom (or decent human being for that matter) would be there for someone who lost a relative, or was in an accident, or had some sort of emotional crisis. Dealing with issues like extreme borderline personality disorder or paranoid schizophrenia isn't something most people can handle solo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious
As some of you already know, I am in the midst of deciding if this is the lifestyle that I want for myself. I know everyone is different, and I'd like to know how likely I am to find someone that I feel comfortable with.

Oddly enough (or maybe not so oddly) about the same as anywhere else. Some people in the lifestyle are self-centered annoyances. Some are purely sex-obsessed. Some are vapid idiots. Some are caring and decent people. It's not so different than other dating scenes.

Well. Okay. Maybe there are fewer vapid idiots and more sex-obsessed types. That's just my opinion. I didn't actually gather any statistics.

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Post #: 25

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/30/2009 12:44:22 AM

aldompdx

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Emotion is the process of emoting or expressing a feeling. Such expression manifests as behavior, conduct, or action. It is nonsensical to assume that an act is dissociated from the motive.

Most behavior is motivated by feeling rather than thought.
Virtually everything one does is in pursuit of feeling fulfilled.
The exception would seem to be more primal instinctive reactions, like blinking. However, even the protection of one's survival serves to continue feeling fulfilled. Even those people who repress their feelings and make what seem to be purely intellectual choices, they do so based on a probability of deriving fulfillment, even if they deny ever consciously experiencing the feeling.

(in reply to PainfullyCurious)

Post #: 26

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/30/2009 6:34:49 PM

PainfullyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

Obviously, I think it's important to recognize the difference between a behavior that can be corrected and an emotional problem, which isn't something that can be solved with a a good spanking or a hug and a gentle conversation. In fact, I would say in my experience, if a Dom establishes an environment where the sub feels safe and protected and secure - often problems that have been repressed or kept inside will surface just as the relationship is growing strong - exactly because the support is now there and it's safe to express things that before could not be let out.

I like what you said here... and the thing about setting the car on fire. That's funny too.

I guess I keep wondering what exactly it is that I "give up" when I submit to someone else.

So far I when come up with a concern and post about it, the general consensus seems to be that the right Dom will not use his title as an excuse to be an insensitive ****-hole. That's good. I'm glad to know that I don't have to choose between acting on my fantasies and being with someone who uses common sense.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

Post #: 27

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/30/2009 6:48:51 PM

Fitznicely

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious
If you want her to give herself over to you, and to make your happiness her # 1 priority, then don't you have to take responsibility for keeping her safe?

Yes, emotionally and physically...and not just safe, but healthy.

I see it as my duty as Owner to ensure my girl's health and wellbeing, as I do for my UM's and pets.

Part of that includes getting to know her better than anyone else knows her, being able - with varied success - to spot warning signs early and deal with them.

Make no mistake, it's hard work, but if the person's worth it, then so is the effort.

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Post #: 28

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 11/30/2009 8:06:22 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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Methinks this thread qualifies as an emotional issue...

This whole thread seems to suggest that there are internal things that must automatically be excused from the realm of individual control/consent. Even if someone has these pieces of baggage, I'd be curious how you intend to qualify them...because choosing to call something emotional instead of behavioral at a given moment sounds to me like an alibi from consequence.

What characteristics would officially make something beyond behavioral (essentially trumping the dynamic set in place)? Clinical phobias or dementia?

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Post #: 29

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 2:43:05 AM

cagliostro

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OP:

There are people who argue that behavior and emotion are tied together, hence the cognitive behavioral therapy, which has an unfortunate acronym for those of us in BDSM.... I'd argue that it is too hard to nail down exactly what a problem is, and why exactly it occurs, to say with finality it is either. However, when you figure out which it is, I think it is important to know which it truly is. Mostly because my approach to dealing with each is different. Emotions are dealt with by finding their core and treating that. Behaviors are treated by interruption and assessment.

(in reply to PainfullyCurious)

Post #: 30

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 3:03:27 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

I'm noticing that by the time an experienced Dom posts on here about an "unruly sub," assuming he knows what he's doing, he's only at his wits end because the problem he is describing is emotional in nature, not behavioral. You guys have already mastered behavior.

There are all sorts of factors driving a person's behaviour......feelings/intuition/facts/emotions etc........I'm struggling to understand the logic underpinning the notion that there is no cause and effect relationship with regard to emotions and behaviour.

You would only have to watch and listen to someone for half an hour to get a picture on how that person thinks.....such as do emotions play a large part in how a person behaves....which isn't a problem providing it's channelled in a positive manner......I mean is it even possible to base every decision in your life on facts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

I'd like to know how likely I am to find someone that I feel comfortable with.

I'm imagine you have a good chance based on the law of averages.......

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Post #: 31

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 4:35:39 AM

Aileen1968

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Where have you been?????
Welcome back. Pip pip. Cheerio.

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Post #: 32

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 6:17:37 AM

Underumam

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While I can agree that each individual has not only the right, but the responsibility to sort through and heal their own baggage, we will always serve as "mirrors" for those around us. Since nobody can lay claim to being 100% healed and balanced, we simply cannot avoid this and it WILL show its head one day. One of the reasons it has been so difficult pair myself with the right is Domme directly linked to this one fact, as it demands/requires mastering ones self first, and many individuals fail to recognize this. How can one master/lead another if they have not done this FIRST for themselves? They simply can not. Those who are wanting a poly lifestyle will be faced with this "mirror effect" on a daily basis, and failure to resolve issues on the emotional level is the primary reason that most fail in the long term.

I am not a Dom, but felt the urge to post this. My apologies to anyone who is offended by this..

< Message edited by Underumam -- 12/5/2009 6:18:36 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 6:26:15 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious
My question, to each of you, as a Dom is: Do you know how to spot an emotional issue vs. a behavioral one? Do you think it's important for you to know the difference?[/size]

Yes and Yes. I happen to be very good at it and dealing with such issues regardless if they are emotional or behaviorial.... but only so good as the person's willingness to deal with them!

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Post #: 34

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 7:57:40 AM

LPslittleclip

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if theres something that has altered the dynamic then it needs to be discussed and rectified. my mistress is very good at noticing that something has changed and drom there a open discussion will find what it is and a plan to fix it will be made. be it emotional or behavioral if it upses the dynamic then it must be addressed.

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RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 9:57:21 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Where have you been?????
Welcome back. Pip pip. Cheerio.

Believe it or not Aileen I'm writing a book.....a book of short stories......comedy orientated.....yeah I know you need a sense of humour to explore comedy but stranger things have happened...

Cheers for the welcome......hope life is treating you well in Jersey.

Pip pip cheerio? What am I? A fuckin' toff with no claim to a personality? Is there a Yank equivalent or do you by-pass the small talk and go straight to shooting someone/anyone in the face?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Post #: 36

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 10:34:00 AM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Pip pip cheerio? What am I? A fuckin' toff with no claim to a personality? Is there a Yank equivalent or do you by-pass the small talk and go straight to shooting someone/anyone in the face?

Consulting my Yank/ Brit handbook:
Pip pip cheerio= fugeddaboutit

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Post #: 37

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 11:21:56 AM

sweetsub1957

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

However, as in the example above, I'm sure you'd agree that you could not command her to stop greiving a loss.

I would not agree (and yes I have the degree to prove I can disagree here).

The emotions of grief can be filtered into more productive behavior. Talking one out of acting on unhealthy grief is absolutely possible. A huge portion of the psychiatric/psychological community is based on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It works. Not always, but with a goodly amount of people.

Yes i agree with everything you said....What you STILL didn't do however, was to stop the person from grieving...You stopped the behavior resulting from the grief ....but not the grief.

I have to agree with breatheasone here.....at least in my own very recent experience. When Sir died but a couple months ago. I slid into a black hole, complete with reckless disgregard for my own physical AND emotional health, and not caring about anything.....crying all the time and, in general, being self-destructive. Then Someone, a friend of mine, ordered me to pull myself together and told me exactly what He wanted me to do.....gave me direction. I did not stop grieving, but I did stop my destructive behavior.

The way I see it is, my grief for instance, is what it is, and it will be here until it runs it's course. My behavior on the other hand, is something I can choose and change. I am not so driven by my emotions that I can't control myself. It's just that, because of the intensity of my grief, I had a momentary lapse is all, until Someone Else set me back on track.

< Message edited by sweetsub1957 -- 12/5/2009 11:29:17 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 4:24:45 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Where have you been?????
Welcome back. Pip pip. Cheerio.

Believe it or not Aileen I'm writing a book.....a book of short stories......comedy orientated.....yeah I know you need a sense of humour to explore comedy but stranger things have happened...

Cheers for the welcome......hope life is treating you well in Jersey.

Pip pip cheerio? What am I? A fuckin' toff with no claim to a personality? Is there a Yank equivalent or do you by-pass the small talk and go straight to shooting someone/anyone in the face?

Hahahaha. It was the only Britishy thing I could think of other than fish and chips.

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Post #: 39

RE: Behavior Vs. Emotion - 12/5/2009 6:10:45 PM

marie2

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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Pip pip cheerio? What am I? A fuckin' toff with no claim to a personality? Is there a Yank equivalent or do you by-pass the small talk and go straight to shooting someone/anyone in the face?

The small talk usually goes something like fuck you, asshole, then we shoot 'em.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 40

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