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RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 12:59:43 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I suppose any conservative-leaning organization could be said to be "aligned" with any other, as far as that goes. But the purpose of this thread is to debate the possible passage of a health-care bill that does not reveal what Congress is actually voting for, leaving that detail up to the HHS Secretary to decide after the fact.

If someone can show that any of the statements reported in the press with respect to this bill are false or misleading, regardless of their source, that's certainly germane. But I consider people who just want to wander in and shit on the floor to be off-topic. And yeah I know, it's hopeless.

K.

4 (C) PROHIBITION ON FEDERAL FUNDS
5 FOR ABORTION SERVICES IN COMMUNITY
6 HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION.—
7 (i) DETERMINATION BY SEC8
RETARY.—The Secretary may not deter9
mine, in accordance with subparagraph
10 (A)(ii), that the community health insur11
ance option established under section 1323
12 shall provide coverage of services described
13 in subparagraph (B)(i) as part of benefits
14 for the plan year unless the Secretary—
15 (I) assures compliance with the
16 requirements of paragraph (2);
17 (II) assures, in accordance with
18 applicable provisions of generally ac19
cepted accounting requirements, circu20
lars on funds management of the Of21
fice of Management and Budget, and
22 guidance on accounting of the Govern23
ment Accountability Office, that no
24 Federal funds are used for such cov25
erage; and

119
O:\BAI\BAI09M01.xml [file 1 of 9] S.L.C.
1 (III) notwithstanding section
2 1323(e)(1)(C) or any other provision
3 of this title, takes all necessary steps
4 to assure that the United States does
5 not bear the insurance risk for a com6
munity health insurance option’s cov7
erage of services described in subpara8
graph (B)(i).
9 (ii) STATE REQUIREMENT.—If a State
10 requires, in addition to the essential health
11 benefits required under section 1323(b)(3)
12 (A), coverage of services described in sub13
paragraph (B)(i) for enrollees of a commu14
nity health insurance option offered in
15 such State, the State shall assure that no
16 funds flowing through or from the commu17
nity health insurance option, and no other
18 Federal funds, pay or defray the cost of
19 providing coverage of services described in
20 subparagraph (B)(i). The United States
21 shall not bear the insurance risk for a
22 State’s required coverage of services de23
scribed in subparagraph (B)(i).
24 (iii) EXCEPTIONS.—Nothing in this
25 subparagraph shall apply to coverage of

120
O:\BAI\BAI09M01.xml [file 1 of 9] S.L.C.
1 services described in subparagraph (B)(ii)
2 by the community health insurance option.
3 Services described in subparagraph (B)(ii)
4 shall be covered to the same extent as such
5 services are covered under title XIX of the
6 Social Security Act.
7 (D) ASSURED AVAILABILITY OF VARIED
8 COVERAGE THROUGH EXCHANGES.—
9 (i) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall
10 assure that with respect to qualified health
11 plans offered in any Exchange established
12 pursuant to this title—
13 (I) there is at least one such plan
14 that provides coverage of services de15
scribed in clauses (i) and (ii) of sub16
paragraph (B); and
17 (II) there is at least one such
18 plan that does not provide coverage of
19 services described in subparagraph
20 (B)(i).
21 (ii) SPECIAL RULES.—For purposes of
22 clause (i)—
23 (I) a plan shall be treated as de24
scribed in clause (i)(II) if the plan
25 does not provide coverage of services

121
O:\BAI\BAI09M01.xml [file 1 of 9] S.L.C.
1 described in either subparagraph
2 (B)(i) or (B)(ii); and
3 (II) if a State has one Exchange
4 covering more than 1 insurance mar5
ket, the Secretary shall meet the re6
quirements of clause (i) separately
7 with respect to each such market.
8 (2) PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF FEDERAL
9 FUNDS.—
10 (A) IN GENERAL.—If a qualified health
11 plan provides coverage of services described in
12 paragraph (1)(B)(i), the issuer of the plan shall
13 not use any amount attributable to any of the
14 following for purposes of paying for such serv15
ices:
16 (i) The credit under section 36B of
17 the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (and
18 the amount (if any) of the advance pay19
ment of the credit under section 1412 of
20 the Patient Protection and Affordable Care
21 Act).
22 (ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under
23 section 1402 of thePatient Protection and
24 Affordable Care Act (and the amount (if
25 any) of the advance payment of the reduc

122
O:\BAI\BAI09M01.xml [file 1 of 9] S.L.C.
1 tion under section 1412 of the Patient
2 Protection and Affordable Care Act).
3 (B) SEGREGATION OF FUNDS.—In the case
4 of a plan to which subparagraph (A) applies,
5 the issuer of the plan shall, out of amounts not
6 described in subparagraph (A), segregate an
7 amount equal to the actuarial amounts deter8
mined under subparagraph (C) for all enrollees
9 from the amounts described in subparagraph
10 (A).
11 (C) ACTUARIAL VALUE OF OPTIONAL
12 SERVICE COVERAGE.—
13 (i) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall
14 estimate the basic per enrollee, per month
15 cost, determined on an average actuarial
16 basis, for including coverage under a quali17
fied health plan of the services described in
18 paragraph (1)(B)(i).
19 (ii) CONSIDERATIONS.—In making
20 such estimate, the Secretary—
21 (I) may take into account the im22
pact on overall costs of the inclusion
23 of such coverage, but may not take
24 into account any cost reduction esti25
mated to result from such services, in

I found this among the pages your site offered up Master Kirata.

Unless im reading this wrong... and im not sure i am... i dont find your article citing the bill accurately.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)

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Post #: 21

RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 1:03:00 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Yes I understand, such statements can't be given any credibility because of their source, which (as you somehow know from reading the intention of their evil minds) wants people to "blindly accept" whatever kind of biassed "crap" (to use the Brain's term) they feel like pushing. Kinda like you, apparently, which is maybe where your ideas about what's in their head come from, because I notice you haven't bothered to show where or how what has been reported is in any way false or misleading. Wanna get around to that one of these days?

K.

(in reply to rulemylife)

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Post #: 22

RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 1:10:06 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Unless im reading this wrong... and im not sure i am... i dont find your article citing the bill accurately.

Thanks tazzy, I hope you're right. But to my reading of it, what you posted is about as clear as mud, as specifically defined in subparagraph (C)(iii), except as allowed in clauses (iv) and (vi) of section (D), and providing that the restriction mandated by subparagraph (F)(ii) does not apply.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/1/2009 1:21:22 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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Post #: 23

RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 5:56:39 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Unless im reading this wrong... and im not sure i am... i dont find your article citing the bill accurately.

Thanks tazzy, I hope you're right. But to my reading of it, what you posted is about as clear as mud, as specifically defined in subparagraph (C)(iii), except as allowed in clauses (iv) and (vi) of section (D), and providing that the restriction mandated by subparagraph (F)(ii) does not apply.

K.

The section i posted was in reference to two parts of the points the article referred too... as follows...

quote:

For instance, on Page 122 of the 2,079-page bill, the secretary is given the power to establish "the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on average actuarial basis, for including coverage under a qualified health care plan."

Here, its speaking of optional coverage. Thats what the Secretary would be pricing. And its related to abortions, not to overall coverage.

quote:

The HHS secretary would also have the power to decide where abortion is allowed under a government-run plan, which has drawn opposition from Republicans and some moderate Democrats.

The Bi part i didnt catch earlier... here is that missing section...

10 (B) ABORTION SERVICES.—
11 (i) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC
12 FUNDING IS PROHIBITED.—The services
13 described in this clause are abortions for
14 which the expenditure of Federal funds ap15
propriated for the Department of Health
16 and Human Services is not permitted,
17 based on the law as in effect as of the date
18 that is 6 months before the beginning of
19 the plan year involved.
20 (ii) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC
21 FUNDING IS ALLOWED.—The services de22
scribed in this clause are abortions for
23 which the expenditure of Federal funds ap24
propriated for the Department of Health
25 and Human Services is permitted, based

118
O:\BAI\BAI09M01.xml [file 1 of 9] S.L.C.
1 on the law as in effect as of the date that
2 is 6 months before the beginning of the
3 plan year involved.
4 (C) PROHIBITION ON FEDERAL FUNDS
5 FOR ABORTION SERVICES IN COMMUNITY
6 HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION.—
7 (i) DETERMINATION BY SEC8
RETARY.—The Secretary may not deter9
mine, in accordance with subparagraph
10 (A)(ii), that the community health insur11
ance option established under section 1323
12 shall provide coverage of services described
13 in subparagraph (B)(i) as part of benefits
14 for the plan year unless the Secretary—
15 (I) assures compliance with the
16 requirements of paragraph (2);
17 (II) assures, in accordance with
18 applicable provisions of generally ac19
cepted accounting requirements, circu20
lars on funds management of the Of21
fice of Management and Budget, and
22 guidance on accounting of the Govern23
ment Accountability Office, that no
24 Federal funds are used for such cov25
erage; and

...............

7 (i) DETERMINATION BY SEC
8RETARY.—The Secretary may not deter
9mine, in accordance with subparagraph
10 (A)(ii), that the community health insur11
ance option established under section 1323
12 shall provide coverage of services described
13 in subparagraph (B)(i) as part of benefits
14 for the plan year unless the Secretary—
15 (I) assures compliance with the
16 requirements of paragraph (2);
17 (II) assures, in accordance with
18 applicable provisions of generally ac19
cepted accounting requirements, circu20
lars on funds management of the Of21
fice of Management and Budget, and
22 guidance on accounting of the Govern23
ment Accountability Office, that no
24 Federal funds are used for such cov25
erage; and

............

The United States
21 shall not bear the insurance risk for a
22 State’s required coverage of services de23
scribed in subparagraph (B)(i).

..........

In all honesty, Master... both these points fall under the section for abortions. In reading through it, it appears that the Secretary cannot circumvent laws. And what was posted by the article was misleading. The bill is here

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/1/2009 5:58:02 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 2:45:14 PM

jackod

Posts: 66
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

WHY you guys mentioning "word" democrat/republican? Is a one monster with TWO heads spitting on each others,to confuse the people(sorry sheeple),controlled by the international bankers,at this moment advancing new world order very rapidly,Jack,los angeles

(in reply to rulemylife)

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Post #: 25

RE: Health Care Coronation - 12/1/2009 2:48:26 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

My posts didnt mention either. Perhaps glasses?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jackod)

Profile

Post #: 26