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California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 12:16:15 PM   
DedicatedDom40


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_banning_divorce

It appears the Prop 8 issue is still alive, with the gay community trying to put a ballot initiative up in California to ban divorce. If the sanctity of marriage was so important to ban gays from the practice, I guess its appropriate that gays work towards banning divorce among the straight people using the same 'marriage is sacred' principle.

And if it passes and is ultimately overturned by the courts, its a precendent to overturn Prop 8 on the same civil rights grounds.
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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 12:33:33 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

It appears the Prop 8 issue is still alive, with the gay community trying to put a ballot initiative up in California to ban divorce. If the sanctity of marriage was so important to ban gays from the practice, I guess its appropriate that gays work towards banning divorce among the straight people using the same 'marriage is sacred' principle.


The initiative is a bit of political theater directed by a straight married Catholic dude.


quote:


And if it passes and is ultimately overturned by the courts, its a precendent to overturn Prop 8 on the same civil rights grounds.



And... no. Not really.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 2:35:57 PM   
jackod


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Im married 0ver 20 years ,so ban ban ban divorce,jack

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 4:05:45 PM   
DemandingLeader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

The initiative is a bit of political theater directed by a straight married Catholic dude.




This straight married catholic also was against Proposition 8. He supported gay marriage.  I wonder if he will be the next one to be denied communion for being un-catholic?



< Message edited by DemandingLeader -- 12/1/2009 4:06:11 PM >

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 4:19:14 PM   
Fellow


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They should ban marriage (as state institution) not divorce. Marriage ban will in time solve  everything; no marriage no divorce, no discrimination.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 5:12:51 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemandingLeader

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

The initiative is a bit of political theater directed by a straight married Catholic dude.




This straight married catholic also was against Proposition 8. He supported gay marriage.  I wonder if he will be the next one to be denied communion for being un-catholic?




I think the cranky bishops are still focused on abortion, I don't think they've gotten around to denying communion based on support for gay marriage. Give them time, though.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 7:33:38 PM   
TheHeretic


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They need 650,000-ish valid signatures to make the ballot.  Mine won't be on the list.  I oppose this for the same reasons I opposed 8.  I don't think it is cute, or clever, or likely to be productive.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/1/2009 8:06:10 PM   
Brain


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I can't see this passing because they want their cake and they want to eat it too. In other words they're hypocrites. But I think it's a nice try and it brings out the hypocrisy card. I think if we want real change in the future we had better start voting for real progressives whether they are Democrats like Russ Feingold, Illinois, or Sheldon Brown from Ohio or candidates in the Green party; Ralph Nader said the Democrats and Republicans are both corrupt: my God what a despicable worm showed Lieberman has turned out to be, sell out, sell out, sell out.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/2/2009 8:04:08 AM   
Termyn8or


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FR

This is a perfect example of the fallacy of democracy. In the early days of the foundation of this country they shunned democracies as a failed attempt. They equated democracy with mob rule. That's not to say that it won't work on a local scale in a small community. However it does not work on a large scale. Too many idiots screaming "I want it my way" when none of them understands what the Consitution is supposed to mean. The "interpreters" of the founding documents are, in reality, nothing but spin doctors with a bit of a different venue.

The Constitution was meant to limit the power of government over the People. However regulating and taxing corporations is not so limited. In the case of banksters and large corporations, it would be perfectly lawful for the government to step in, for the common good and defense. What happened is that they failed to recognize the enemy and act in our best interest, instead befriending these enemies to freedom and furthering their goals.

So now we have this partnership between government, big business and the media which most people refuse to recognize for the conspiracy it really is. This is not a theory folks, it is fact and the evidence is right there, all over the place. I am not talking about some ETs really running the place, HAARP or the chips, nor the secret arsenal. I am talking about clear facts that are in front of your face almost every day.

The problem is that we have all been born into this scenario and have lived all of out lives in it. People don't see social security for the Ponzi scheme it is, nor the similarities in the very monetary system itself. Such plans always end eventually, and all of the sudden now people are realizing the folly of these schemes because we are living in the end times of the scheme. There are simply not enough suckers WITH MONEY to go around. Failure is imminent and the scheme can only be propped up for a short time. These are the times in which we live, and have for some time now.

The hardest thing for people to accept is that our own ancestors sold us out to secure their own future and possibly their offspring at the time, ignorant to what was going to happen to future generations. But every coin has two sides. On the other side of this one, if there had been very little or no credit, real money instead of fiat currency, no stock market, and no a few other things, this forum would likely not exist, as the computer you now read and communicate with.

Without this mess things would be different. Who wants to go back ? It was normal to drive the same car for a long time as one saved up the money for a new one. Buying a farm would either mean saving up for some time or a land contract. During that time you could be a sharecropper, a renter or a squatter.

One of my best lawyers of all time told me straight out "The system does not work without money". It was a different context but I think it prevails on this issue. The only way to keep what we have is to bring industry back, or create new industry. That's a catch 22. We will never compete with the current lobbying money (which is a bribe plain and simple) to get real change.

So in reality what we need is representatives with their priorities straight. We can't outlaw lobbying, but nobody says they have to take the money. Well yes they do but that could be fixed with the right people. Where are they ? Where did all those signatures come from to ban Gay marriage in the first place ? From people who do not understand the concept of why this country was formed in the first place. But further, how did so many people vote for it ? That indicates that most people do not understand.

I am starting to think that government does indeed represent the People, it's just like a lawyer defending the guilty. They know their client is guilty but their job is to represent them anyway. They don't want freedom, they don't want a republic. Each person wants to be a dictator, and when those of like mind get together it results in a "critical mass" of sorts. That is the main folly of democracy. Issue upon issue keeps many from focussing on the real problems. Gay marriage doesn't mean shit, because soon nobody will be able to afford a marriage license.

As much as I am against the Pledge Of Allegiance for many reasons, the words "and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands. I am not fond of the words "under God". but oh well, if I am to use influence to remove those words, I am as guilty as those neandrethal religious types who think they are always right for everybody.

I would love to be dictator. You would have more freedom under me than any other form of administration. Why ? Because I know how to use power with restraint. (and I don't mean that in a kinky way)

So really, I have no problem with them putting up this resolution. In a way it is fighting fire with fire. Land it right in their laps, and don't be surprised if the same ilk that passed Prop 8 helps to pass this. Shifting and drifting allegiances are nothing new. People have no anchor. No solid foundation in their beliefs or morality.

People have defined some as lunatics, and unfortunately their desciption of same includes the PTB and themselves in most cases. Freedom fighters adopt the same tactics of critical omission and some degree of lies to accomplish what they percieve as a greater good. And that's at best, some are simply greedy and others even worse because they are power hungry.

There are many many miles of bad road ahead of us.

T

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 11:58:04 AM   
pahunkboy


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I know a lesbian that married a gay guy.   Soley to get all of his teeth fixed.  She had great insurance is why!!!!

They did.  he now has perfect teeth.   :-)

Gosh-  I could use my teeth redone.   Any takers??

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 10:21:57 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
They should ban marriage (as state institution) not divorce. Marriage ban will in time solveĀ  everything; no marriage no divorce, no discrimination.


You forgot one:

"No women pressuring men to 'define their relationship."

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 10:34:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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Everyone should have only Civil Unions--leave marriage to whatever a given religion wants to do.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 11:01:21 PM   
Termyn8or


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Mm, that really does work in theory. But then there are some for whom that is not enough. Being on both sides of almost any subject I can wrap my mind around a bit, I see their point.

If you ask a guy if he is single, and he truthfully replies that can be an issue. If he answers that he is married, OK he identified as a heterosexual. If he replies that he is in a civil union then he is identified as a homosexual. It seems that some want it so they can just say they are married, and maybe later you find that he is married to George, not Georgette.

I guess I can understand this, but it still irks me, with marriage comes divorce, it is an extant fact in this society. Till death do we part is a thing of the past.

Tell you what I would like to see is a Gay couple celebrating their fiftieth wedding aniversary. My family has managed to have at least one in every generation since they got here. I am sure there were tough times. Whatever. I don't know if they'll do it this time around, we'll see.

And then what about polys ? On a job application is it going to say "Check here if you have more than one spouse" ?

I think this is a classic case of oversimplification leading to overcomplication.

More later, my brain is tired. Does it show much ?

T

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 11:15:27 PM   
Musicmystery


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The Civil Union can be limited to two.

If a group of adults want to live together as be religiously, if not legally married--fine.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 11:54:57 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And then what about polys ? On a job application is it going to say "Check here if you have more than one spouse" ?



An employer is not permitted by law to inquire about marital status.

The argument against gay marriage is always based on religious doctrine of some sort. The claim is always that marriage is a religious ceremony.

It would be quite interesting to say ok, marriage is a religious based partnership. From now on, if two people want to be legally bound to each other, it will be called a civil union, and must be performed by a government official. For those who choose the religious ceremony, the partnership will not be recognized by the government. If they want to have a legally recognized partnership, they must have a ceremony performed by a government official (i.e. Justice of the Peace, Judge, Mayor, etc.). Certainly they can also have a religious ceremony if they choose, but without the civil ceremony, they will not be legally bound. The outcome of this is that "divorce" as we know it would no longer occur for those married in religious ceremonies. The would lose all protection under divorce laws without that civil ceremony, while all the heathens who chose to be bound legally would have those protections.

It wouldn't take a second for all the religious people to start screaming it was unfair to do such a thing. You can't have separation of church and state in the area of divorce when marriage is a religious issue. If marriage is a matter of "God" and the Bible, then divorce can not be regulated by the state, it would need to be regulated by the church (or whatever according to your religion). But therein lies the real problem doesn't it? The ones who scream that marriage is defined by religion look to the state to protect them should they decide they no longer want to be married. The bring in the state, mixing church and state when it suits them.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/3/2009 11:55:33 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If he answers that he is married, OK he identified as a heterosexual. If he replies that he is in a civil union then he is identified as a homosexual.

Huh? Do you really imagine that only gays would go to a civil authority and only heteros would marry in churches?

K.

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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/4/2009 12:02:35 AM   
Musicmystery


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Nor need these be mutually exclusive.


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RE: California to ban divorce? - 12/4/2009 4:46:08 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I know a lesbian that married a gay guy.   Soley to get all of his teeth fixed.  She had great insurance is why!!!!

They did.  he now has perfect teeth.   :-)

Gosh-  I could use my teeth redone.   Any takers??



I would do it, but I don't have insurance so it wouldn't help you any. Sorry about that.


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