RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (Full Version)

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CelticSubM -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 5:57:45 AM)

I find it interesting that "domestic servitude" or "maid service" seems to be pretty common as a male submissive fantasy, especially among crossdressing male submissives. It seems rather rare though as a female submissive fantasy or desire. The reason, I would assume, is that for women housework is so much a mundane reality that it is difficult for them to eroticize it. For men, "domestic servitude" may seem erotic because of the role reversal element. For submissive crossdressers, domestic servitude seems to play into their desire for identification with a degraded image of womanhood.




DarkSteven -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 6:55:16 AM)

OP, I just checked your profile.  You're 20 years old and claim to be an expert in dozens of things. 

I suspect that you are new to living on your own and, without your parents, are thinking, "Dang!  Laundry and cooking and cleaning take a LOT of time!  How can I get someone else to do thins for me?"




Lucienne -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 7:10:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticSubM
It seems rather rare though as a female submissive fantasy or desire.


My domestic servitude fantasy normally involves sneaking off to the garage to have sex with Clive Owen. Mmmmm... the smell of sex and motor oil.

On a more serious note, wait... I'm completely serious about the Clive Owen thing, so... on a more relevant note, in order for the domestic servitude route to seem appealing to me, there needs to be a lot of capital involved. The thought of dusting some guy's condo, not so hot.  Wearing a crisp uniform and contributing my part to the functioning of a large, well-ordered household, while being at the sexual disposal of the Lord of the manor (and stable boys!)... um, hot. Of course, that's so far from the realm of possibility it's untestable fantasy. I guess I'm saying that the more complex hierarchy seems more amenable to submission (erotic and otherwise) than just being some guy's maid/personal assistant.




CalifChick -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 7:58:25 AM)

Check out the Professional Domestic Services & Institute, located right there in your own state.  When speaking of people that are successful in the field, you very frequently hear "service heart".  That's what you're looking for, with a D/s slant to it.

Yearly Salaries:
Household Manager - $40,000 to $80,000
Administrative Household Manager - $70,000 to $135,000
Estate Manager - $85,000 to $250,000
Personal Assistant - $40,000 to $90,000
Housecleaner - $35,000 to $55,000
Estate/Executive Housekeeper - $40,000 to $60,000
Laundry Specialist - $35,000 to $45,000
Family Cook/Chef - $30,000 to $75,000
Caretaker - $15,000 to $40,000

And yet you expect someone to take on one or more of these jobs, AND work another full-time job?  There's only 24 hours in a day on the planet that I live on...


Cali




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 8:37:58 AM)

DarkSteven made me giggle!


OP, what everyone else said. FIRST you need the house, then the servants come. Owning another person is a tremendous responsibility, one that I doubt I would take on again, and I DO have many years of experience. Get yourself a wingman, and go from there.





AnimusRex -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 9:09:10 AM)

And so here we have another case where the fantasy meets reality.

I actually see his profile and desires in a positive light- the man wants someone to serve him, plain and simple. His profile is the reciprocal of the slave profiles we see that fervently claim to want 24/7 TPE "no limits" slavery, to be kept "in a life of servitude".....blah blah blah. Isn't that what we always joke about? A slave that breathlessly says they will do "ANYTHING" for their Dominant- and we reply, "OK, go mow my lawn"?

But as most Dommes here can attest, the more common case is where the men see their servitude as nothing more than an investment towards the dividend of an orgasm to be provided later. The best ones exchange their servitude for a sincere relationship, but it is always an exchange- they always get something out of it, usually a romantic, or erotic connection to their Master/ Mistress.

So it is extremely rare to find a submissive man who sincerely would like to be a servant to a straight man. But here is one, captured in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtaZ-iJFUmk




sirsholly -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 11:38:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick


Check out the Professional Domestic Services & Institute, located right there in your own state.  When speaking of people that are successful in the field, you very frequently hear "service heart".  That's what you're looking for, with a D/s slant to it.

Yearly Salaries:
Household Manager - $40,000 to $80,000
Administrative Household Manager - $70,000 to $135,000
Estate Manager - $85,000 to $250,000
Personal Assistant - $40,000 to $90,000
Housecleaner - $35,000 to $55,000
Estate/Executive Housekeeper - $40,000 to $60,000
Laundry Specialist - $35,000 to $45,000
Family Cook/Chef - $30,000 to $75,000
Caretaker - $15,000 to $40,000

And yet you expect someone to take on one or more of these jobs, AND work another full-time job?  There's only 24 hours in a day on the planet that I live on..


well...lesse what i'm worth here...

Estate Manager - $85,000 to $250,000 I thought this was fitting since we live on a farm...
Personal Assistant - $40,000 to $90,000 Fancy name for one he has sex with, but what the hell
Housecleaner - $35,000 to $55,000 Yep...thats me!
Estate/Executive Housekeeper - $40,000 to $60,000 Ok...change the basic housekeeper to this instead. i mean hell...that barn isn't self cleaning, yanno.
Laundry Specialist - $35,000 to $45,000 Annnnd worth every penny, lemme tell ya!
Family Cook/Chef - $30,000 to $75,000 Hey...my gourmet slop-slingin' is worth more than i thought!



using the low end of the scale (hell...we ARE married and all) i figure ol Jim should be paying me 230,000.00 per year.

I better get one HELL of a Christmas gift this year


Now..joking aside OP...do you really see what you are asking someone to do for you?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 1:31:05 PM)

Well, I've been out of the loop for a while (getting one of my saplings married off and settled in his expanding Steampunk household), but I hope that I can present some less damning perspective on the subject of service submission. Service submission is not a one-way street. Admittedly, there is a pretty small pool of people who specifically orient towards this type of service, but we are not, by any stretch of the imagination, absent or non-existent (as 13 years with House Bladewing has shown me). The thing is, though, that the face of domestic service, even for those of us who run re-creationist-style households, has changed dramatically, due to changes in the realities of economic life vs. say, the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Our household is set up with our authority-exchange dynamic being -primarily- focused on service submission, and, in particular, Victoriana/Steampunk-recreationist household structure. At the same time, we're a full-scale poly household, so the people who become a part of what we are, typically, are family first. One other aspect that has been beneficial for us is that we've also made ourselves available, in the past, as a short-term "experiential" opportunity.

A bit of realism is one of the first requirements in running a household of this sort. In this day and age, it is imperative to have a good grasp of one's capacity and finances, as head of a household, in order to be able to determine whether one has the resources to maintain and support a full-time, live-in service submissive. There is a profound fiscal responsibility when bringing a person into one's home, and the individual in question does need to have some process in place to assure that xhe is able to sustain hirself and serve with grace -- being hungry, cold, and not knowing where one will be in a week, month, or year certainly doesn't lend itself towards a graceful presence in service. In addition, for many individuals, losing 3-4 years as an adult in the workforce virtually guarantees problems -returning- to the workforce, should that be desired or necessary down the road. While it is nice to think that it will never be necessary, we choose, in our household, to be much more pragmatic and plan for the worst while presuming the best -- so for our servants who have positions in the working world that could be jeopardized by a long break in service, if we cannot provide them comparable duties within the household that can be properly documented to allow an unbroken resume or curriculum vitae (CV), we encourage them to retain at least a part-time outside position in their field. For most of these individuals, any funds earned during that outside work is -theirs-, though, if they are in residence with us, they may contribute a portion to the household, as all of those of us who share the household do. However, for those who are struggling to either clear long-standing debt or to create a cushion to assist in long-term survival, we may provide certain fiscal restraints regarding management of a servant's funds, to further the goals that xhe has set for hirself. This allows our servants to serve us without as great a measure of fear about how their decision is impacting them in the long-term, and, in our experience, this has provided us with a larger pool of truly dedicated and graceful servants, who have been able to truly invest in our household from a commitment perspective, because of the relief of not being forced to give up their security for intangible or unclear return.

All of our current crop of servants, whether in our direct household or one of our satellite households, hold positions outside the household. They provide domestic service (including butler, chatelaine, and kitchen service) because they enjoy it, and because they love being a part of the House -- and because our structure, appreciation, and due diligence as Keepers resonates with them. Were we to return to keeping a full-time servant, our estimates are that, in the current economic climate, in order to attend to things like board (food, clothing, etc.); medical; retirement; etc., we would need to be earning approximately $75, 000 USD per annum for the running of the household plus the first full-time servant, and an additional $18, 260 USD per annum for each servant beyond that one. If we do the math, unless one is independently wealthy, that can be quite prohibitive.

It is a little different, I think, when one is involved in a romantic relationship from which domestic servitude springs, but even then, there is a need, from my perspective, to be honest in evaluating one's fiscal health prior to making a commitment to someone to provide for hir care and well-being. Having sufficient healthy food, warm shelter, decent clothing, and enough tools to be able to participate in the activities that one enjoys above and beyond domestic service, are basic requirements for a healthy household regardless of romantic attachments. Unfortunately, one cannot eat love, lust, submission nor domination for supper.

I'd be happy to discuss more about this, including some of the more practical aspects, as it is a subject near and dear to my heart. Feel free to post me on the other side, also, if you wish, and I'll try to answer any other questions you may have.

Dame Calla




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 1:39:31 PM)

quote:

Now..joking aside OP...do you really see what you are asking someone to do for you?


The problem with this perspective, Holly, at least in my experience, is that it really doesn't take into consideration the people who would (and -do-) embrace domestic service positions out of a love of the lifestyle. For those who are doing it as a -career-, there is definitely a need to discuss salaries and such, but realistically, there are quite a few individuals out there who become involved in domestic-service relationships because they are drawn to another aspect. For those in our household, we certainly don't pay them a salary, but they get to participate in an active Victoriana/Steampunk-based, high-protocol structure, or they get to practice domestic service because they -enjoy- waiting on and caring for the Keepers, or they get to experience the joys of authority exchange in a low-sexual-pressures environment. These are just -some- of the reasons that our servants have chosen to be with us, even though we're not paying them to provide us with domestic service.

For those who don't enjoy domestic service (or don't enjoy receiving domestic service) it doesn't make a lot of sense, but for those of us who really love aspects of this, the money is not the primary consideration (frankly, IME, especially on the servant's end... which is why, as a Keeper, I -do- keep the fiscal aspect in the forefront of my mind... since some of our servants would have, over the years, served us into their graves without expecting anything in return. To me, though, taking advantage like that, especially when such is offered in full, open, innocent love for the art, is not the mark of a good Keeper... it is the mark of a user, which makes it my responsibility to hold myself to the Keeper's standard, rather than the user's.)

Dame Calla




Lucienne -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 3:39:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
but they get to participate in an active Victoriana/Steampunk-based, high-protocol structure, or they get to practice domestic service because they -enjoy- waiting on and caring for the Keepers, or they get to experience the joys of authority exchange in a low-sexual-pressures environment.


Weird. I don't think I've ever heard the term "steampunk" before, and yet, I watched every episode of the Secret Adventures of Jules Verne.




antipode -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 3:39:17 PM)

quote:

But it isn't often that this particular preference is addressed.


There have been plenty of discussion I have seen float by, and it is, on many sites, a category, so I think you probably need to search a little more, if you have at all, kinda hard to miss that stuff if you are looking for it. Cute, that tripled up superlative - are you planning to add a fourth honorific?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 4:28:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
but they get to participate in an active Victoriana/Steampunk-based, high-protocol structure, or they get to practice domestic service because they -enjoy- waiting on and caring for the Keepers, or they get to experience the joys of authority exchange in a low-sexual-pressures environment.


Weird. I don't think I've ever heard the term "steampunk" before, and yet, I watched every episode of the Secret Adventures of Jules Verne.



These links might be interesting for you:

The Steampunk Home
The Steampunk Workshop
Datamancer (Art site)
Papermag (steampunk lifestyle article)

Calla




Lucienne -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 4:48:57 PM)

Cool! Thanks.




DesFIP -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 4:51:09 PM)

I've read a novel that was characterized as steampunk. Can't remember the name. I'd describe it as retro science fiction.




Thenewaccount10 -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 4:56:16 PM)

I would love to do that for a Mistress who I loved and was married to. I take pride out of working and supporting myself, and would out of supporting my Mistress, so I would much rather prefer to work a job and be her Butler, Bodyguard, Valet, Chauffeur, etc when I am not at work. (though I would be willing to do it full time if she wanted me to)
I would have to love her very much and know her very well though, not just someone I talk to on the internet. I think that I would take pride in serving a woman like that.




AnimusRex -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 5:45:33 PM)

Steampunk Entertainment- cool movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vORsKyopHyM
www.boingboing.com usually has some good articles on it




CaringandReal -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 7:00:10 PM)

I like steampunk.

It's a trend that been floating around the culture for decades. I remember it from the 70s, in music (Alice Cooper, for one) and movies (Time after Time, McDowell--swoon-- and Steenburgen). But it didn't really pick up much steam until the turn of the century. To me, the point at which steampunk became conscious of itself was in the early 90s when that popular cyberpunk tag team (Gibson and Sterling) wrote The Difference Engine.




LadyDelilahDeb -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/3/2009 10:08:07 PM)

FR:
Domestic servant is one subset of the larger category of service submission. Because any Mistress(Master)–servant(slave) relationship is individual, with the emphasis on relationship, you would be well advised to develop your relationship skills, beginning with active listening. The other points raised by LaTigresse and several others are relevant, but you're not going to have any such relationship without the skills required to create, develop, and maintain one.

Lady Delilah Deb




DarkSteven -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/4/2009 7:21:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

well...lesse what i'm worth here...

Estate Manager - $85,000 to $250,000 I thought this was fitting since we live on a farm...
Personal Assistant - $40,000 to $90,000 Fancy name for one he has sex with, but what the hell
Housecleaner - $35,000 to $55,000 Yep...thats me!
Estate/Executive Housekeeper - $40,000 to $60,000 Ok...change the basic housekeeper to this instead. i mean hell...that barn isn't self cleaning, yanno.
Laundry Specialist - $35,000 to $45,000 Annnnd worth every penny, lemme tell ya!
Family Cook/Chef - $30,000 to $75,000 Hey...my gourmet slop-slingin' is worth more than i thought!



using the low end of the scale (hell...we ARE married and all) i figure ol Jim should be paying me 230,000.00 per year.

I better get one HELL of a Christmas gift this year


Now..joking aside OP...do you really see what you are asking someone to do for you?



Hey, holly, you forgot to add the rates for a comedienne.

And a supermodel.




OttersSwim -> RE: Domestic Servants? Butlers, Valets and the Like.. (12/4/2009 7:28:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticSubM
For submissive crossdressers, domestic servitude seems to play into their desire for identification with a degraded image of womanhood.


You are propagating a largely inaccurate stereotype here.




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