communication problem......help! (Full Version)

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hisbijou -> communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 7:47:05 PM)

i would be interested in some help with this..... suppose that a Dominant posted His sub's picture, a very revealing one, on a site to see what would happen? This action was taken without the knowledge of the sub, who may or may not have been consensual with the action. When the submissive was told (quite excitedly) of the action and the results, she felt....left out. The Dominant felt "corrected" by the submissive, and now is in a funk. i think communication is paramount not just in the lifestyle, but in EVERY relationship and when one partner shuts down, what is the other one left to do? am i stepping out of my role to express myself on this item? i feel that my pictures are not FOR the masses, but certainly are for the pleasure of my Dominant. i just don't feel that i want my pictures out there for all, perhaps conceitedly so. He felt i would be flattered that so many found them exciting, but i feel de-valued. any insights would be much appreciated.
bijou



Borcher -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 8:13:23 PM)

bijou,

I think you have every right to feel left out of the decision and to be upset, and every right, too, to express to him that you are upset that you were not even asked first. If it was not part of any agreement and clearly stated that he could do what he did, he simply should not have posted your pics anywhere without having your consent.

As a photographer who often shoots nudes, I can tell you it is just improper to post images to the public (even a member's only site) of another person without their signed release.

Furthermore, if the image shows a person engaged in any type of sexual act, even as simple as touching one's own nipples, it is illegal to display those images to the public (even a member's only site) if signed release and records of the person's actual name and age (person *must* be over 18 in most states and over 21 in others) and proof of same are kept at a designated address available to the Feds for inspection. This is all part of federal regulations to help stem underaged porn online. See:Federal Labeling and Record-Keeping Law (also known as 18 U.S.C. 2257). Sites usually will display a statement that says "all models located within our domain were 18 years of age or older during the time of photography. All models' proof of age is held by the custodian of records, which is listed below. All content and images are in full compliance with the requirements of 18 U.S.C. 2257 and associated regulations. "

There exists a wide interpretation of 18 U.S.C 2257, but it is easily seen that you just dont display images of someone without their consent. He was just plain wrong.

I don't think, either, that you are stepping out of any "role" to express yourself. If he feels shut down or "corrected" then good . . .work through it and both learn from it; that next time you do something like this, even if not involving photography, you need to discusss it first and clearly state the limits and boundaries.

Borcher

Borcher Swan, editor
Borcher's D/s Gazette
http://borchernews.com



Leonidas -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 9:35:05 PM)

Every submissive role in this lifestyle, from consentual masochist to abject slave, requires honest expression of your feelings to be sucessful. Your top, dominant or master cannot relate to you effectively if he doesn't know what's going on with you. It is hard for any outsider to comment cogently on the situation that you describe without having heard the interchange between you. As a general rule I willl tell you that there can be appropriate ways and inappropriate ways to express your feelings as the submissive party in a relationship. I'm sure that I don't need to tell you that "I'm pissed off at you because you didn't get my permission before posting those pics. What the hell were you thinking?" will most likely get a far different response from your dominant than "Sir, I'm feeling left out and upset because you chose to post those without telling me first." even though both of these are expressions of roughly the same emotion. By all means, and always, express exactly what you are feeling, but do it in a way that is respectful of the differential in power that you want to maintain in your relationship.

Take care of yourself,

Leonidas



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 9:39:26 PM)

thank You for Your knowledgeable response. i wondered about it because i knew it bothered me, but was not sure where my boundaries are as a submissive. i suppose if i was giving advice to someone else, it would be clear to me...but it is never that easy when it is MY life i am talking about. thank You....
bijou



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 9:42:35 PM)

Sir, thank You for Your response. i believe i was quite respectful in the expression of my feelings about the picture and His actions. i was overboard with respect. His response was to completely shut down from me, in fact it may be the end of the line for us. i am unwilling to continue to fight for an endless relationship here, as i had hoped. be well,
bijou[8|]



Borcher -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 9:53:05 PM)

My pleasure, bijou. I hope you are able to keep things going with him and that he is able to come out of his funk and see what he did that offended. . . if that is what you both really want. Sometimes it is something like this that helps people see one of two things: that they really DO belong together becuase they have learned more about each other and can move on, or that they really DO NOT belong with each other becuase there is a breach of trust and respect and you don't know how to get past it.

A small correction in my original post: I wrote
quote:

and proof of same are kept at. . .
. That should be "and proof of same are *not* kept at. . ."

Good luck, bijou.



Leonidas -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 9:54:59 PM)

Again, hard for me to comment in a meaningful way without having heard the exchange. I've been around this lifestyle long enough to know when I don't know. OK, so, take home lessons time. When you find yourself in this situation (and it probably won't be the last time) take stock. Think about what you'll do differently next time around. What were the signs that his ego might have been too fragile to withstand the rigor of a real relationship, if indeed that was the case? How will you do better next time expressing your desires and expectations up front? It is easy, and pointless, when you find youself in this situation to point the finger. You won't grow that way. Focus on the things that were and are under your control.

Take care of yourself,

Leonidas



proudsub -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/16/2004 10:22:47 PM)

quote:

suppose that a Dominant posted His sub's picture, a very revealing one, on a site to see what would happen


This happened to me, my Master posted some pics in an adult photo contest on a cam site. He was supposed to block out my face but he didn't. Well hubby happened to see them. That was the end of my affair but as i've mentioned before it worked out well for me.



sub4hire -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 4:06:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisbijou

i would be interested in some help with this..... suppose that a Dominant posted His sub's picture, a very revealing one, on a site to see what would happen? This action was taken without the knowledge of the sub, who may or may not have been consensual with the action. When the submissive was told (quite excitedly) of the action and the results, she felt....left out. The Dominant felt "corrected" by the submissive, and now is in a funk. i think communication is paramount not just in the lifestyle, but in EVERY relationship and when one partner shuts down, what is the other one left to do? am i stepping out of my role to express myself on this item? i feel that my pictures are not FOR the masses, but certainly are for the pleasure of my Dominant. i just don't feel that i want my pictures out there for all, perhaps conceitedly so. He felt i would be flattered that so many found them exciting, but i feel de-valued. any insights would be much appreciated.
bijou


Hisbijou,
To me this does'nt really sound like a communication problem. It sounds like your Dominant is immature. He posted the pics, like a teenager would. Hey, look what I've got, type of attitude.
So, what do you do about it. You express your anger. Which I feel just like everyone else does, you have every right to do. You are in a relationship period. Communication is part of it. Even if he does'nt like it all of the time.
I guess you have to decide whether the relationship is worth holding onto. Slowly work through it. With proper communication I'm sure he will come out of his funk in time. Nobody likes to be reprimanded especially when acting like a 13 year old would.
He thought he had your upmost respect. Realized he blew it. How would you feel given the situation. If you were in his shoes?
Probably hurt, yet stupid at the same time. At least that is how I would feel.
I'd think it out. Decide if the relationship was for me. Then continue on taking whatever steps I needed to take.
Good Luck



ovine -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 5:55:23 AM)

......and while you didn't mention the word mentor here, obviously you or the Dom your'e with started from scratch. Yeah, there is def. a commo problem there and your "contract" to live together has some loopholes. Personally I hate the notion of mentor, because as a Dom they are a pain the ass, little boy mentally and inbread idiots. Good luck with working this out. - ovine



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 6:43:42 AM)

thank you for your note. i think you are right on the money. i felt it was a teenage type thing to do, and in a way, i hate that i spoiled his little fun. however, i cannot deny that i need a more mature relationship. hell.... at times i thought i would fly away, explode into the stars from the beauty of our connection, and now this bullcrap. be well. i appreciate that bit about "How would you feel...in his shoes.?" i had not considered that.
be well
bijou[8|]



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 6:48:29 AM)

Yes, we started from scratch. He had not ever had a sub before, only vanilla relationships, although most were what i would consider long term. He is a dominant male, but has some switch in Him...i cringe when i see it, knowing what will be expected of me. i am a great actress, but my love is submission. i have thought over the past 24 hours that perhaps the best Masters start out being submissive to someone else, and maybe that is how they learn about the relationship....heck, i don't know. all i know is what i have experienced. at times like this, i am not even sure if this life is for me. my best to You. yes, He could have used a Mentor.
bijou[8|]



MistressDREAD -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 7:33:09 AM)

Im going to go against what I have seen written here and as a LADY and Mistress of many years this is My take on it from a Dominant to slave point of View.
When My slaves give Me any thing materialistic it becomes My posession.
The old addadge goes here if You try to take sumthing back or control what actions I take with sumthing that you have freely given to Me, that is called indian giving in the vanillia world and Topping from the bottom in BDSM. Once the pictures were given to Me by You I feel as a Dominant I may do what ever I please with the gift and this is what I feel the mindset of your Dominant worked off of [as a sub if you did not desire the gift of pics to be used for anything other then for the Dominants use in BDSM this would of been a issue to be added to a contract of such as a new limit, and at this point the Dominant would of had the options to either take the gift for Him self or turn the gift down as one He did not desire to have any restrictions on.] He was proud that He had been given such a gift and desired to show off His new * Possession. I find His actions complimentary and not in any way wrong in a BDSM Master/slave Dominant/submissive manner and think that most of what I have read here in the responses I have read is very VERY Vanillia points of view.... This is a perfect sample of the differences in whats deemed [New Guard online D/s] to [Old Guard in BDSM real life] in thought and mindset I think......



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 8:14:47 AM)

Mistress Dread: thank You for writing...i was a little nervous to see what You would say, and i am not surprised terribly by Your take on it. i was confused by the action He took, and He did in fact state that He wanted others to see me, in an anonymous way. However, i am not a slave, i am a sub for sure. in any case, i feel that ANY problem that comes up should be talked about, that communication is paramount. after all that we have been through together, closing up shop over something like this is crazy. i was respectful in telling Him how i felt, but the mere fact that i disagreed with Him has been too much for Him. why can't everything be talked about? He has told me His most intimate secrets, why can't i then, express my simple thoughts about distributing my naked likeness to the masses? i am a good submissive, Mistress. i do not give up. i am constantly working at improvement. i don't believe my likeness should be posted for all to see. i am proud of myself. i think i am a Gift. why should i be available to unworthy ones? i realize that You will think i am too proud, Mistress. perhaps You have known one like me. Did that submissive not have great value to You ?
bijou



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 8:17:47 AM)

i also think that He was intending to continue to post my pictures until i made it clear that i wanted them to be for Him. He seemed more excited about the pictures being for Him to use for others. i don't really understand what that means. it made me feel as though all of a sudden i am not enough for Him, that He needed more. i cannot give more than i have. i give all, and in my mind, that is enough....for the Right Man.
bijou



MistressDREAD -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 8:55:34 AM)

The way you are looking at this and He are at two completly different levals. you look at it as a security/protect my thoughts, my body, my every thing as i want to keep control of what you do when it concerns me issue, and He looks at it as a MY POSESSION look what I have I am so proud issue, and why would she be upset,as I have shown her off to the world and they now all know that I adore her, and she is MINE.
Dominant/sub relationships that are tempted to be worked out as they go alone are a vanilla way of addressing real life issues that arise and that would of in a tru BDSM relationship been worked out BEFOR the relationship started either verbally which to Me is not the best of ways or contractually which I will always feel is the very best way to have all things out on the board in a BDSM fashion because as it is clear here trying to work a D/s life into vanilla ways just does not fit the mold most times.
Im currious as to why My Words would invoke your nervousness about what I have to say? Is this because being One on the deep inside of BDSM as aposed to the outer fringes of Top/bottom D/s relationships I see the differances of what Alternate Lifestylers practice are as well as Vanillas views of how they would like things to be in their relationships as a Top and bottom and state My thoughts regardless of what others may think?LOL!
your a cutie hisbijou and it is obvious that He has voyurisum with in His blood which happens to be a kink of this lifestyle and very common, and of which there are many many kinks one can have and which in My opinion if one had a contract which stated all of Ones* kinks would of been known befor the relationship started and been addressed. I hear many emotional issues churning with in you bijou and those of which are simply human nature as apposed to actuall Alternate Lifestyle ways and these issues I see as being not a issue of communication between the two of you but an issue of your vanilla needs out of the relationship its self. Again I will say this.....regardless if a slave or a sub as you are, if I as a Dominant is given any gift from a suplicant it then becomes MY POSESSION which I may do with what I desire if nothing was discussed about this gift pryor to, or to do as I see fit with in the bounds of the contract I have with in the D/s relationship and if there were NOT with in Lifestyle Bounds sumthing discussed befor hand concerning the gift or better yet a limit added to a contract connected to this gift which shows its limits with in the bounds of receiving or accepting this gift. In My Contracts, photography is a issue that is discussed as well as all actions and gifts which are given and received with in the BDSM relationship and what will or can be done with them and what will or will not be accepted as a action and the breaking of the contract or for your situation simply a vanilla breaking of trust that was given in assumation.......[you know what they say about subbies whom assume dont you?? ~smiles~]



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 9:19:45 AM)

You have no idea how much i value Your opinion.



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 11:40:55 AM)

it's a moot point now. (whatever that means.) it is over between us now, He says not because i expressed my views about the photo, but rather because i had agreed to "always be in a good mood when we are together" and because the photos being His was a basic element....that He would always be thinking of "broken promises" with me. i think He just wants out. which is fine, but i wish He could just say that, instead of having these lame things which (I KNOW THEY ARE NOT LAME TO HIM) can be easily ironed out, with the crack of the cane, or His hand. Come to think of it, i have not been disciplined in a very long time, although the promise of punishment has been there. i am fully disillusioned now, and will indulge in this poor me sentiment until it no longer serves me.
bijou[8|]



sub4hire -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 12:45:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisbijou

Yes, we started from scratch. He had not ever had a sub before, only vanilla relationships, although most were what i would consider long term. He is a dominant male, but has some switch in Him...i cringe when i see it, knowing what will be expected of me. i am a great actress, but my love is submission. i have thought over the past 24 hours that perhaps the best Masters start out being submissive to someone else, and maybe that is how they learn about the relationship....heck, i don't know. all i know is what i have experienced. at times like this, i am not even sure if this life is for me. my best to You. yes, He could have used a Mentor.
bijou[8|]


Dread makes a good point about the Old Guard. That is there way. Once you are owned you are owned. However, as you have stated that is'nt the case at all. You were both brand new. So it was just an adolescent mentality.
It also sounds from your previous post. This is'nt the first time bad things have happened.
So what you do is up to you.
There was a previous subject here. I'm not sure which forum it was in. Although the question was asked. Are Doms and subs born or do they learn it later in life.
I know I believe they are born. We are who we are we just need to refine ourselves.
I belived it was Ervusi, (although I could be wrong) He said he was a Dominant at 19. Born one. He just was'nt a good one. He was immature..amoung a number of other things.
We grow into the people we are. Perhaps your Dom will grow into a good Dominant someday?
Maybe I'm reading into your words wrong here. I hear you saying the life is for you. You just are'nt sure if you are in it with the right person.



hisbijou -> RE: communication problem......help! (3/17/2004 1:50:59 PM)

Gloria. i have more questions than i have answers. i just want a break from thinking right now....(i can't think about that right now, i'll think about that tomorrow....) although my feelings are hurt, slightly.....i just feel a little pissed off that He doesn't value me and want to keep me forever, the way HE SAID He did... but i have been hurt in this relationship before, a few times, and vowed that one more time would be too much for me. i think i am prepared to move on. however, i do want to learn what i can from this.[8|]
bijou



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