RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising!

RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (Full Version)

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ShadowSide -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/4/2009 9:52:11 PM)
This "depression" has been going on since we hit these shores and having to build and maintain this raggedy empire-like society.

slvemike4u -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/4/2009 10:13:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Popeye how does he have a point...The Democratic party has courted the black vote,results aside.The republican party rejects the black voter when he plays the race card to their base After election delivery on campaign promises are a problem for every constituency regardless of color ...we all get screwed it seems. But talking code to middle class white people,preying on their fears of how they are losing their way of life to "them" is not designed with the black vote in mind...lol.Quite the oppisite as a matter of fact. Mike, so in other words Black people get screwed no matter who they vote for? Actually Popeye...I said we all get screwed...one segment of the population seems to get a little more lubrication...while the other consistanly is required to take it dry.

slvemike4u -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/4/2009 10:15:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShadowSide This "depression" has been going on since we hit these shores and having to build and maintain this raggedy empire-like society. I guess bitching to your travel agent wouldn't do much good ,heh?

Silence8 -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 5:42:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse African Americans have supported democrats probably 90 out of a 100 for ever. When are they ever going to figure out that the donkey party isn't the answer ? Luv you Mia.... Actually, I am not crazy about either party, servant. I tend to be one of the rising numbers of MODERATES. I try to be as non-partisan as I can be, and focus on the issues. A lot of issues are not seriously dealt with because of partisan bullshit. I really don't think we are in the hell we are in now, because of Democrats. Please, don't get me started on Ronald Reagan, "rampant free trade agreements" in the "global market", and outsourcing American jobs tonight! Happy Holidays, servant. Beware moderation -- politics isn't like chocolate, alcohol, and romance novels. If you look historically, the far left socialists and Marxists has consistently been in the vanguard of supporting African Americans, not to mention immigrant populations as well as the women's movement. I'd wager, also, that 15% is a pretty low estimate...

Musicmystery -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 8:32:39 AM)
quote: Beware moderation -- politics isn't like chocolate, alcohol, and romance novels. This is ridiculous. The majority of people are moderate. Stop being so gullible. Neither the country nor the world is divided into neatly wrapped left/right packages as the theater of political commentary would have you believe. Strive for media literacy, common sense, and some independent thinking.

tazzygirl -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 9:22:24 AM)
~FR Thought these numbers might put things into perspective... http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm This is what disturbs me... and maybe it shouldnt, ... but i hate the play on numbers here. White men, 20 and up ------------ Nov. 2009 - 6.1 Nov, 2009 - 9.8 Change - 3.7 white women, 20 and up --------- 5.1 - 7.4 - 2.3 black men, 20 and up ------------- 12.1 - 6.9 - 4.7 black women, 20 and up ---------- 9.0 - 11.7 - 2.7 Overall, women in both groups have managed to maintain their job numbers much better than men. Could it be the traditional job roles of nursing, education, restaurant and the like have weathered the job market better than the more industrial jobs men hold? Could part be blamed on the construction jobs that are now, as is the custom of such jobs, slowing down or ending for cold weather? Am i making excuses? I dont think so. Im trying to apply logic to numbers that no one else wants to explain. Part of these numbers are a seasonal trend.

thishereboi -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 9:33:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR Thought these numbers might put things into perspective... http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm This is what disturbs me... and maybe it shouldnt, ... but i hate the play on numbers here. White men, 20 and up ------------ Nov. 2009 - 6.1 Nov, 2009 - 9.8 Change - 3.7 white women, 20 and up --------- 5.1 - 7.4 - 2.3 black men, 20 and up ------------- 12.1 - 6.9 - 4.7 black women, 20 and up ---------- 9.0 - 11.7 - 2.7 Overall, women in both groups have managed to maintain their job numbers much better than men. Could it be the traditional job roles of nursing, education, restaurant and the like have weathered the job market better than the more industrial jobs men hold? Could part be blamed on the construction jobs that are now, as is the custom of such jobs, slowing down or ending for cold weather? Am i making excuses? I dont think so. Im trying to apply logic to numbers that no one else wants to explain. Part of these numbers are a seasonal trend. I would say in this area (Detroit) that has a lot to do with it. The manufacturing/industrial places that used to constantly advertise "help wanted" now say "for lease". It's sad when you drive around and see so many places out of business. The Health care jobs however, still seem to be doing ok. At lease they still have ads for jobs in that field. Some restaurant jobs, but not like there used to be. It also bothers me, that whenever I hear on the new about the unemployment rate going down, they always talk about the number of "new claims" dropping. I have a feeling that has more to do with the fact that most people in this area are already collecting it, than the fact that it's getting better out there.

AnimusRex -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 10:19:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery This is ridiculous. The majority of people are moderate. Stop being so gullible. Neither the country nor the world is divided into neatly wrapped left/right packages as the theater of political commentary would have you believe. Even more ironic- conservatism itself was originally based on moderation. Russell Kirk, one of the godfathers of modern conservatism, said that conservatism had no creed, it had no manifesto, it was not a religion. It didn't have a fixed end point- conservatism is pragmatic, and seeks always balance, harmony, and is open to adjustments, changes of course, and new ideas. Conservatism by definition was cautious, and opposed to radicalism. In a cruel and sick irony, the modern conservative movement has become a cargo cult of capitalism, turning it into a fanatical religion that worships free markets without reason, without criticism, without regard to emprical facts. The modern conservative movement (i.e. Palin, Limbaugh, Beck) are as dogmatically Utopian as an Bolshevik ever was, and are therefore frighteningly radical.

ShadowSide -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 10:21:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: ShadowSide This "depression" has been going on since we hit these shores and having to build and maintain this raggedy empire-like society. I guess bitching to your travel agent wouldn't do much good ,heh? Not when its the same story no matter what country I travel to. Maybe that nice meteor in 2013 will set things right, if it hits.

Silence8 -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 10:30:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Beware moderation -- politics isn't like chocolate, alcohol, and romance novels. This is ridiculous. The majority of people are moderate. Stop being so gullible. Neither the country nor the world is divided into neatly wrapped left/right packages as the theater of political commentary would have you believe. Strive for media literacy, common sense, and some independent thinking. First, I don't think that the 'moderation' that the majority of people possess corresponds very strongly with the policy of moderate politicians. I mean, sure, vote for Obama. He's a centrist, through and through, a 'moderate', but he's still marginally better than the alternative. But, if you want ideological consistency, true worldly insight, people to learn from, I recommend looking outside the muddle of the middle. Look at, for instance, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul for people with clear patterns of thought (on both sides of the spectrum) that correspond at least somewhat with their intended policies. I just don't think moderation is something to strive for in terms of one's values. Compromise on specific issues, make pragmatic decisions, but strive for clarity, foresight, even, perhaps, bravery in one's beliefs.

Silence8 -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 10:40:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery This is ridiculous. The majority of people are moderate. Stop being so gullible. Neither the country nor the world is divided into neatly wrapped left/right packages as the theater of political commentary would have you believe. Even more ironic- conservatism itself was originally based on moderation. Russell Kirk, one of the godfathers of modern conservatism, said that conservatism had no creed, it had no manifesto, it was not a religion. It didn't have a fixed end point- conservatism is pragmatic, and seeks always balance, harmony, and is open to adjustments, changes of course, and new ideas. Conservatism by definition was cautious, and opposed to radicalism. In a cruel and sick irony, the modern conservative movement has become a cargo cult of capitalism, turning it into a fanatical religion that worships free markets without reason, without criticism, without regard to emprical facts. The mordern conservative movement (i.e. Palin, Limbaugh, Beck) are as dogmatically Utopian as an Bolshevik ever was, and are therefore frighteningly radical. This argument doubles back on itself. Couldn't we argue that moderation, along your lines, is itself a type of conservatism? The fear of big changes? Wasn't that Obama's alleged fear in healthcare reform -- changing to medicare-for-all would have been too extreme for the American people? (Putting aside that Medicare itself was a major, fast, and yet successful shift). In this sense, Obama moderated, and now we see the conservative result, that is, the conservation of big capital at the expense of the (little) American people.

AnimusRex -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/5/2009 11:03:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 Couldn't we argue that moderation, along your lines, is itself a type of conservatism? The fear of big changes? Wasn't that Obama's alleged fear in healthcare reform -- changing to medicare-for-all would have been too extreme for the American people? (Putting aside that Medicare itself was a major, fast, and yet successful shift). In this sense, Obama moderated, and now we see the conservative result, that is, the conservation of big capital at the expense of the (little) American people. Actually that WAS my point- that moderation is intrinsic to conservatism. I was referring to the current Stalinesque purge of moderates from the conservative movement- people like Andrew Sullivan, Charles Johnson, David Frum, Bob Dole- anyone who isn't sufficiently radical for the likes of Palin and Beck. I would also agree that moderation has its limits- there are plenty of cases where radical changes and wild gambles are appropriate and useful. In this sense, conservatism does NOT believe that unfettered capitalism is always and everywhere the perfect solution- that is the stuff of religion, of cults and ideology. Capitalism is the solution only when supported by empirical evidence and reason. In some cases, a radical change is actually conservative, if it is pragmatic, based on available evidence and reason, not fixed dogma and ideology. In the case of health care reform, I actually think the best evidence points to a solution of public option, mixed with private health care.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/6/2009 9:01:32 AM)
I wonder what proportion of the unemployed (black, white, brown and every color in between) made the DECISION to drop out of school. Now, theyre living with it

Kirata -> RE: Unemployment among Black People--15% and rising! (12/6/2009 9:32:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I wonder what proportion of the unemployed (black, white, brown and every color in between) made the DECISION to drop out of school. Now, theyre living with it As you mention education, here are some graphs showing the unemployment rate by education, race, age, and gender. The way unemployment tracks with education is striking. K.

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