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A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:07:54 PM

SpinnerofTales

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Don't get me wrong. I like Obama. I don't like him as well as a president as I did as a candidate, but I still think he was the better of the two options offered in the last election. I have yet to lose all hope for him. That being said, I heard a criticism of him on the radio yesterday I thought rather valid. It was focused on his decision about the Afghanistan surge but could equally be applied to a number of decisions he's made.

It was said that Obama goes overboard in consultation and attempting to build consensus. He seems to talk to some people who want hot water and some people who want cold water and then give everyone tepid water. I thought this was rather on the money.

Bush the Younger showed us the damage that can be done by a president who won't hear opposing viewpoints. Obama, I'm afraid, is showing that there is an equal downside to listening to too many. While I respect his information gathering and trying to bring sides together, I have to admit to a feeling that it is time to fish or cut bait that is rapidly turning into one of it being time for him to shit or get off the pot.

No citations. No articles. Just one man's opinion.

Post #: 1

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:13:41 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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Don't forget to mention he also stood in front of the wrong plane and this will affect all our future lives. I just hope tomorrow he gets out of the right side of the bed or we all be fuckered futuristically speaking.

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RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:25:13 PM

goldenguy

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Just call him "bend over barry" from now on. He is leading us down the path to subservience to the rest of the world. I believe in Speaking softly and carry big stick as our greatest Presidents have. America does not spit or swallow.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

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RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:27:21 PM

willbeurdaddy

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His waffling isnt consensus building, its prophylactic damage control given the huge divide between the Soros crowd that got him elected and rational Democrats and independents who are regretting their vote.

(in reply to goldenguy)

Post #: 4

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:28:29 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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I don't know Spinner,I rather like a man that does his due diligence on weighty issues...certainly a hell of a lot more than the man who is ruled by his "gut".
Not to mention he seemed to be decisive enough reacting to that piracy issue a while back.....showing IMO not just an ability to "pull the trigger" so to speak....but the ability to recognise when an immediate dicision is needed....and when there is time to think.
By the way,I haven't heard anyone dispute his claim that no time was lost in making this decision....his accelerated deployment is actually ahead of what McChrystals staff was looking at.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

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RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:29:31 PM

SpinnerofTales

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You see....this is why it's hard to criticize Obama. Just looks what comes out when you do.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 4:35:48 PM

thishereboi

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McChrystals?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to slvemike4u)

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RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 5:05:57 PM

slvemike4u

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McChrystal's......better now?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 8

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 7:55:40 PM

TheHeretic

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I agree that it's a valid criticism, Spinner. I'll also point out that during the pirate incident, when the captain jumped overboard and gave the Navy a clear shot, everybody just scratched their nuts while he was hauled back onto the boat. That "immediate decision" was still another day or so away.

It concerns me.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 9

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 8:00:01 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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He is tho the 2009 Nobel peace prize winner.

who knew?

/snip

WHY was there "only" 2 choices? We have 300,000,000 in this country. And somehow that leads to "2 choices".

Explore the shadow government. For they are the owners of the country- not the puppets.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 10

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 8:37:30 PM

MzMia

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This may be a fair criticism of President Obama.
I don't mind "fair" criticism, because quiet as it is kept, no President has ever been perfect.

I actually had this same conversation a few days ago at work.
I stated that I felt that President Obama tries to please everybody, and that is just not possible.
You can not please everyone.

I admire President Obama as a person of integrity and compassion, and I pray he is able to make the right decisions for our country.
To do this, he is going to have to step on some toes, piss people off, and even kick a few asses.
With no real relief in sight, desperate times require desperate measures.
CHANGE is going to have to happen, one way or another.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 12/4/2009 8:42:01 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 11

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 9:39:05 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Don't get me wrong. I like Obama. I don't like him as well as a president as I did as a candidate, but I still think he was the better of the two options offered in the last election. I have yet to lose all hope for him. That being said, I heard a criticism of him on the radio yesterday I thought rather valid. It was focused on his decision about the Afghanistan surge but could equally be applied to a number of decisions he's made.

Jesus, yes. This has been my biggest complaint about him for months now. "Leadership by consensus" is no leadership at all. The traits that made him a successful community organizer do not apply in the world's most unforgiving executive position. I'm all for gathering the smartest people you know into one room and listening to everything they've got to say, but there are times when a real leader has to stand up at the head of the table and say, "Alright, I've heard everything you said, and I respect your opinions. But here's what we're going to do instead..." If you're not able and willing to do that on any given issue, you will never be a truly effective leader. And from what I've seen, he's not even able to grasp that fact, much less apply that skill. If he doesn't learn it, he'll just be another Jimmy Carter.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 12

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/4/2009 10:04:13 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Jesus, yes. This has been my biggest complaint about him for months now. "Leadership by consensus" is no leadership at all. The traits that made him a successful community organizer do not apply in the world's most unforgiving executive position. I'm all for gathering the smartest people you know into one room and listening to everything they've got to say, but there are times when a real leader has to stand up at the head of the table and say, "Alright, I've heard everything you said, and I respect your opinions. But here's what we're going to do instead..." If you're not able and willing to do that on any given issue, you will never be a truly effective leader. And from what I've seen, he's not even able to grasp that fact, much less apply that skill. If he doesn't learn it, he'll just be another Jimmy Carter.

It is the sticking point I have with Obama. Unfortunately, it could lead to some very bad things. Obama can't get the conservatives/republicans on his side. They have made no secret of the fact that the failure of his administration, no matter what the results to the country, is their number one priority. Meanwhile, his lack of progressive leadership is alienating his base (why oh why do politicians forget the simple rule of "you dance with who brung you"?). Meanwhile, the right wing is so bent on moving this country back into the "good old days" of George Bush that they're actually idolizing Sarah Palin.

The words of Yeats sometimes echo through my mind when I think of the next election. "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 13

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 12:50:55 AM

alwayssummer

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Joined: 9/13/2008
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I voted for and contributed to Obama and was thrilled when he won. It's was an unforgettable joy - to see the Whole World Dancing election night.

His performance on the most major issues has been disappointing to the voters who elected him. Yes it is refreshing to (again) have a President who consults with experts and deliberates based on facts. So that is definitely a good thing. The unfortunate part is that he listens to lots of opinions then follows those helped create that specific mess and are vested in maintaining the status quo/enlarging that mess.

Afghanistan is a good example. His own VP (who has a son over there fighting), on the ground State Dept people, even an old friend/expert at the U of Chicago all publicly advised him to reduce not increase. Historical paradigms they offered were Vietnam and Russia's bankruptcy based on their invasion of Afghanistan also stressing the economic and political reality of Afghanistan today. Instead he listened to Mc Chrystal ( "Gen. Pat Tillman Coverup"), and Gates (the Bush/Obama Defense Secretary!), with Cheney-Bush echoing in his head.

The financial meltdown another example. He's followed the advice of those who created the problem (Rubin, Summers, Geitner, Bernanke, all champions of Wall street and the gigantic fraud of derivatives insurance) rather than independent experts trying to stop or at least redirect the 24 trillion dollar sink hole- Warren, Reich, Krugman - professors & Nobel economists not these architects of the shakedown.

I agree that he has forgotten the very specific politics of those who elected him. I know he was the best choice during the election, but he is not following the best information and advice coming his way. It is really frustrating to watch this President consistently side with the vested interests rather than the best interests of this country.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 14

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 1:04:07 AM

NormalOutside

Posts: 622
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

This may be a fair criticism of President Obama.
I don't mind "fair" criticism, because quiet as it is kept, no President has ever been perfect.

I actually had this same conversation a few days ago at work.
I stated that I felt that President Obama tries to please everybody, and that is just not possible.
You can not please everyone.

I admire President Obama as a person of integrity and compassion, and I pray he is able to make the right decisions for our country.
To do this, he is going to have to step on some toes, piss people off, and even kick a few asses.
With no real relief in sight, desperate times require desperate measures.
CHANGE is going to have to happen, one way or another.

What's really sad and unfortunate to see is messages that appear to be written by a talented Obama shill are actually HEARTFELT and coming from a sincere person. You couldn't BUY better cliche'd propaganda gibberish. You seem like a really nice person, but I'm sorry, there's no hope for you where politics and reality meet.

_____________________________

I won't see your reply, because I don't use this account anymore.

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Post #: 15

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 4:44:21 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I agree that it's a valid criticism, Spinner. I'll also point out that during the pirate incident, when the captain jumped overboard and gave the Navy a clear shot, everybody just scratched their nuts while he was hauled back onto the boat. That "immediate decision" was still another day or so away.

It concerns me.

He was in the water only seconds and the pirates had their guns on him. Would they have all been taken out before one got a shot off?

It's easy to play monday morning quarterback, especially when it fits your political agenda.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 16

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 4:47:22 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

McChrystal's......better now?

No, who the hell is McChrystals?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 17

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 4:49:42 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

This may be a fair criticism of President Obama.
I don't mind "fair" criticism, because quiet as it is kept, no President has ever been perfect.

I actually had this same conversation a few days ago at work.
I stated that I felt that President Obama tries to please everybody, and that is just not possible.
You can not please everyone.

I admire President Obama as a person of integrity and compassion, and I pray he is able to make the right decisions for our country.
To do this, he is going to have to step on some toes, piss people off, and even kick a few asses.
With no real relief in sight, desperate times require desperate measures.
CHANGE is going to have to happen, one way or another.

What's really sad and unfortunate to see is messages that appear to be written by a talented Obama shill are actually HEARTFELT and coming from a sincere person. You couldn't BUY better cliche'd propaganda gibberish. You seem like a really nice person, but I'm sorry, there's no hope for you where politics and reality meet.

Well jimney Christmas, at least you think I am nice.

I would love to know the psychology behind people that judge the person and not what
they are saying.
But then again, it is always easier to make personal slams than deal with issues.
Judgemental people, judgemental people, the world is full of them.

Isn't it more productive to judge what a person "does", "has done" or "says" than attempting to
judge the person themself?
Unless you are attempting to be funny or you happen to be " mean spirited".
Normally, if you lower yourself to simply judging the person themself, than that says more about you than the person you are talking about.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 12/5/2009 5:12:25 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to NormalOutside)

Post #: 18

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 4:58:44 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

McChrystal's......better now?

No, who the hell is McChrystals?

Being that this is the third or fourth post over this, I have to ask what you are on about?

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 19

RE: A Valid Critisism of Obama? - 12/5/2009 5:27:47 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
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To everyone here who voted for Obama but have come to have various extents of "Buyer's Remorse" for various reasons, it seems to me that the most valid criticism of Obama would be that he bamboozled all of you into voting for him. Just sayin'...

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 20

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