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Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 2:05:50 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
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Status: offline 		Excellent post, especially for those who enjoy history:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-vlahos/are-we-not-romans_b_379580.html

His thesis- we are increasingly similar to Imperial Rome, in the post-Augustus era.

"Did we not seek immediate vengeance in Afghanistan? Did we not extend a certainty of righteousness to Iraq? Romans would be proud. But they would scowl at wavering.

For Romans nothing less than submission was allowed. Imperial Romans as world leader were terrified of what seemed to them the only alternative: That any advance by resistant Barbaricum would indissolubly constitute a loss of their authority
Meaning: weakness. Meaning: a betrayal of mythic trust. Meaning that the generation of the evanescent present is the possible end of Roman greatness itself. Thus all Roman strategy was about demonstrating for all history that Rome was strong and that its enemies were weak: "To be the first to offer peace communicated weakness and humiliation" ...

And weakness by existential definition, could never be Roman. Even if it meant defeat, Romans would without regard to their collective welfare pursue the path of aggressive strength. Hence all enemies were evil in their provocation and transgression against Roman peace, and to prove Roman strength, they must be punished.

Or as our former president declared: "Our responsibility to history is already clear: to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil." Or in more classically Roman language: "We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great nation." Trajan himself could not have done better. "
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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:12:02 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Status: offline 		Are we not men? We are Devo.


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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:30:06 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		What did the Americans ever do for us ?

~ John Cleese ~

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:32:30 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		no, we're not. /thread

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:40:11 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Are we not men? We are Devo.




You mean these guys in their funny red pot hats?

When a problem comes along, you must whip it!

Afraid so. That be us. We be them. Sadly.


Vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:41:31 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

What did the Americans ever do for us ?

~ John Cleese ~


Took over all the headaches of your damn Empire is wot!

Vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:41:44 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Are we not men? We are Devo.




You mean these guys in their funny red pot hats?

When a problem comes along, you must whip it!

Afraid so. That be us. We be them. Sadly.


Vincent


Not to hijack, but the red hats and the "whip it" song weren't their finest hour. Their first album is amazing and their version of Satisfaction kicks the Rolling Stone's ass.


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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:43:37 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Are we not men? We are Devo.




You mean these guys in their funny red pot hats?

When a problem comes along, you must whip it!

Afraid so. That be us. We be them. Sadly.


Vincent


Not to hijack, but the red hats and the "whip it" song weren't their finest hour. Their first album is amazing and their version of Satisfaction kicks the Rolling Stone's ass.




Maybe not their finest but pertinent to the OP's question, doncha think?

Vincent

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:45:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

What did the Americans ever do for us ?

~ John Cleese ~


Took over all the headaches of your damn Empire is wot!

Vincent


My post was Pythonesque, I am sure someone will understand.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:56:20 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

What did the Americans ever do for us ?

~ John Cleese ~


Took over all the headaches of your damn Empire is wot!

Vincent


My post was Pythonesque, I am sure someone will understand.


The John Cleese attribution did not escape me. My comment was not written with anger. Hence the wot! at the end. Sorry, I should have put a chuckle or two in there.

Here are several to make amends...

Vincent

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 3:59:29 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

"Did we not seek immediate vengeance in Afghanistan? Did we not extend a certainty of righteousness to Iraq? Romans would be proud. But they would scowl at wavering.



Excellent point, Rex. Romans would be proud and so would Republicans.

Vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:00:11 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
What did the Americans ever do for us ?
~ John Cleese ~

Took over all the headaches of your damn Empire is wot!
Vincent


Hah...it is the White Man's Burden, it is.

Ghurka Billy Fish-"I say, are you gods?"
Peachy- "No, we're the next best thing- we're Englishmen!"

Rudyard Kipling, The Man Who Would Be King

Speaking of which, it seems the good Mr. Kipling anticipated our adventure in Afghanistan by about 100 years: Here is the COIN strategy in practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_Yq8u3X6s&feature=PlayList&p=64CF024F57D93A60&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:09:15 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
What did the Americans ever do for us ?
~ John Cleese ~

Took over all the headaches of your damn Empire is wot!
Vincent


Hah...it is the White Man's Burden, it is.

Ghurka Billy Fish-"I say, are you gods?"
Peachy- "No, we're the next best thing- we're Englishmen!"

Rudyard Kipling, The Man Who Would Be King

Speaking of which, it seems the good Mr. Kipling anticipated our adventure in Afghanistan by about 100 years: Here is the COIN strategy in practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_Yq8u3X6s&feature=PlayList&p=64CF024F57D93A60&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34


Bloody freakin funny, Rex, but here's how it ends....

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

Rudyard Kipling


vincent

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:14:06 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I love that poem. Kipling certainly managed to capture the essence of the times.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:18:01 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I love that poem. Kipling certainly managed to capture the essence of the times.


The image makes me shudder and feeds my antiwar sympathies.

vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:25:33 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Indeed Vincent, I am guessing that was Kiplings point for writing it.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 4:30:56 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, PS, no one has paid it much heed these past 100 years or so.

Vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/5/2009 5:42:40 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I've compared the US to Rome numerous times in the past.

In discussions many times I've come to replace the name of our nation as "New Rome".

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RE: Are We Not Romans? - 12/6/2009 6:03:23 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		"Finally, the notion that we are still fighting in Afghanistan because the 9/11 attacks originated there is based on the fallacy that our terrorist enemies are so stupid they have remained frozen in place since 2001. Most Americans know that they are no more static than we are. Obama acknowledged as much in citing such other Qaeda havens as Somalia (the site of a devastating insurgent suicide bombing on Thursday) and Yemen."

Frank Rich in todays New York Tmes

Vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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