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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 8:05:47 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Of course, Merc. And congress has never been able to change it's mind or policies based on what is needed at the moment. Do you think that if Obama asked for additional funds for this job creation, rather than using what's on hand from TARP he would get any better response?


What are you suggesting? The President coming and telling the truth! My GOD MAN Do you think the public is ready for something like that?

We didn't expect to elect someone to tell the truth did we? Obviously, we elected them to provide free health coverage, free college education, free transportation, free food, clean air, and good TV programming.

I forgot, Obama isn't all about 'Transparency' anymore - he's into polling numbers and his image. He's got to refer to his image advisers, consult with a few hundred people, take a few months; and only then, with the ability to go back and say - "I make sure to ask for everyone's input before deciding this" give a speech somewhere in prime time.

Yeah, you're right - Obama's 'leadership' over the past year has put him in position that now it would be difficult for him to give a simple policy statement outlining a 'plan'. It would be nice to see one. However, considering the lack of results to date - he's provided, as you have assigned, power to a political party that pragmatically, based on their numbers, has none.

So, if he doesn't fear the party, he must fear the people. He should - he's not done anything for them; and they are going to be pissed next November. He can't form a coalition in his own party. He has Pelosi and Reid in power and putting out policy and regulations that focus on the fringe element in the party. They were better left on the fringe.

Meanwhile, I'm sorry you think the President can't handle a speech where he tells the truth. I agree with you, he's afraid to do so for political reasons. A party without the votes will criticize him. I thought he wouldn't shrink away from that possibility but, in my opinion, that's a direct result of his inexperience and ultimate need to loved.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 8:42:58 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Of course, Merc. And congress has never been able to change it's mind or policies based on what is needed at the moment. Do you think that if Obama asked for additional funds for this job creation, rather than using what's on hand from TARP he would get any better response?


What are you suggesting? The President coming and telling the truth! My GOD MAN Do you think the public is ready for something like that?

We didn't expect to elect someone to tell the truth did we? Obviously, we elected them to provide free health coverage, free college education, free transportation, free food, clean air, and good TV programming.

I forgot, Obama isn't all about 'Transparency' anymore - he's into polling numbers and his image. He's got to refer to his image advisers, consult with a few hundred people, take a few months; and only then, with the ability to go back and say - "I make sure to ask for everyone's input before deciding this" give a speech somewhere in prime time.

Yeah, you're right - Obama's 'leadership' over the past year has put him in position that now it would be difficult for him to give a simple policy statement outlining a 'plan'. It would be nice to see one. However, considering the lack of results to date - he's provided, as you have assigned, power to a political party that pragmatically, based on their numbers, has none.

So, if he doesn't fear the party, he must fear the people. He should - he's not done anything for them; and they are going to be pissed next November. He can't form a coalition in his own party. He has Pelosi and Reid in power and putting out policy and regulations that focus on the fringe element in the party. They were better left on the fringe.

Meanwhile, I'm sorry you think the President can't handle a speech where he tells the truth. I agree with you, he's afraid to do so for political reasons. A party without the votes will criticize him. I thought he wouldn't shrink away from that possibility but, in my opinion, that's a direct result of his inexperience and ultimate need to loved.


Where do I begin?

First he is giving a speech where he is going to outline his proposals. I plan to listen to that speech before deciding whether he is on the right track or not. You must be a very busy man and don't have time for that step, so you've decided to cut it out entirely and skip right to deciding he's wrong again.

Second, I never said that the republicans have any power to carry out their desire to keep things from getting better until they are back in the driver's seat. I just said that this is a particularly glaring example of it. That they do so is their disgrace. If the Obama administration or the democrats in congress allow them to get away with it, it becomes their disgrace.

What you seem to want to avoid is the republican's knee jerk reaction against policies they have been shouting are "the real and only answers" to this situation from day one.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 9:24:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

First he is giving a speech where he is going to outline his proposals. I plan to listen to that speech before deciding whether he is on the right track or not. You must be a very busy man and don't have time for that step, so you've decided to cut it out entirely and skip right to deciding he's wrong again


Were that your intention, the entire thread would have been delayed until after the speech. However, appreciate your backpedaling at this point.

quote:

Second, I never said that the republicans have any power to carry out their desire to keep things from getting better until they are back in the driver's seat. I just said that this is a particularly glaring example of it. That they do so is their disgrace.


No, indeed you said their position had, in your opinion, a reasonable perspective. Let's review; "republicans have been shouting their indignation at his efforts to stimulate the economy. The demand from the right, and not entirely without base, was that small and medium sized business get the same sort of help that was given to the "too big to fail" financial institutions." This is a glaring example of what - opinion? Have you bought in and support censorship of dissenting opinions? Why do you point to this powerless but vocal response as a hindrance? Or since it's yet another Obama 'crisis' like health care was in August, any opposition should be curtailed for the 'good of the country'?

quote:

What you seem to want to avoid is the republican's knee jerk reaction against policies they have been shouting are "the real and only answers" to this situation from day one.
You're under the very wrong assumption that I believe the Republicans have any answers. However, I understand that is a function of your perspective of difference in the parties. In my case, they are only distinctive in the special interest PACs that pay them. Neither serves the constituency; however one side gives a better impression that they do while not having a positive impact, while the other is a bit more pragmatic in their payback. I'll leave it to you to determine which does which.

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 9:46:06 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


No, indeed you said their position had, in your opinion, a reasonable perspective. Let's review; "republicans have been shouting their indignation at his efforts to stimulate the economy. The demand from the right, and not entirely without base, was that small and medium sized business get the same sort of help that was given to the "too big to fail" financial institutions." This is a glaring example of what - opinion? Have you bought in and support censorship of dissenting opinions? Why do you point to this powerless but vocal response as a hindrance? Or since it's yet another Obama 'crisis' like health care was in August, any opposition should be curtailed for the 'good of the country'?



Merc, I don't know what is happening but you are growing increasingly shrill in your postings. I have never supported censorship in any form. I have never believed that any crisis is made better by not being able to talk about it. I do however, retain my free speech rights to notice hypocracy when I see it.

While you may see me as either completely blinded by partisan concerns, I don't mind a good idea when I hear it. I thought that the ideas of spending on infrastructure and incentives for firms that hire were always good ideas. I may not have believed they were the only ideas that were needed to handle a complex crisis, but I always thought them solid ideas that would have their time to be put into effect. Whether they came from one side of the asile or the other is unimportant to me.

The republicans in congress seem to feel differently. When Obama was doing other things to try to stem the crisis, they shouted for these very proposals. Now that he has come into agreement with them, for whatever reasons, they are showing another face. Now if you can find any reasonalbe cause for this other than their own political benefit, I'd be glad to hear it. So far, I haven't.

And I will remind you that in the first post, I said clearly that this is just my opionion. I will thank you not to suggest I am trying to curtail anone's right to opinion, speech or dissent just because I am exercising my own.

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 10:01:02 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Status: offline 		You keep changing the parameters of the discussion in every reply. First you accused me of judging the Administration attempt prior to hearing it - but when it was pointed out that you began the thread, giving an opinion of the expected Republican response you're now accusing me of "growing increasingly shrill".

Your original critique of the expected Republican response was that they should instead support the Administration's initiative. However you didn't want them to respond to criticize it. Call if whatever, a call for only one type of response is a call for censoring opposition. Not mine obviously; you, prior to this morning's speech I'll remind you, gave an opinion of an acceptable, granted to you alone, response by the opposition party.

There is a growing movement to not want to hear anything other than positions supporting your belief. A disclosing position of insecurity. That isn't pointed to you, unless that's why you don't want to hear an alternative. Pointing to the consequences of the suggested action, whether they are a disregard for the intent of repaid TARP money or further curtailment of US industry through cap and trade, IS a taken position. Commingling the problems, deficit and unemployment because of the opportunity of repaid TARP funds provides for an opportunity to reject the proposal outside the purpose of the proposal.

In other words, if more money needs to be pointed to specific job issues Obama should have the integrity and fortitude to just ask for it. Think of it on pragmatic terms. They are getting money back in from TARP. Here's the first line of the request for a new jobs incentive program; "Thanks to collecting more of the TARP money than anticipated to be used, as passed, to pay down the deficit; I'm requesting Congress consider my proposals for addressing the unemployment problem...." Now both issues are distinct, the debate begins and the opposition is disarmed, and exposed to be 'anti-employment' if they criticize.

Or there's the way it was handled this morning...

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 10:10:12 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

You keep changing the parameters of the discussion in every reply. First you accused me of judging the Administration attempt prior to hearing it - but when it was pointed out that you began the thread, giving an opinion of the expected Republican response you're now accusing me of "growing increasingly shrill".

Your original critique of the expected Republican response was that they should instead support the Administration's initiative. However you didn't want them to respond to criticize it. Call if whatever, a call for only one type of response is a call for censoring opposition. Not mine obviously; you, prior to this morning's speech I'll remind you, gave an opinion of an acceptable, granted to you alone, response by the opposition party.

There is a growing movement to not want to hear anything other than positions supporting your belief. A disclosing position of insecurity. That isn't pointed to you, unless that's why you don't want to hear an alternative. Pointing to the consequences of the suggested action, whether they are a disregard for the intent of repaid TARP money or further curtailment of US industry through cap and trade, IS a taken position. Commingling the problems, deficit and unemployment because of the opportunity of repaid TARP funds provides for an opportunity to reject the proposal outside the purpose of the proposal.

In other words, if more money needs to be pointed to specific job issues Obama should have the integrity and fortitude to just ask for it. Think of it on pragmatic terms. They are getting money back in from TARP. Here's the first line of the request for a new jobs incentive program; "Thanks to collecting more of the TARP money than anticipated to be used, as passed, to pay down the deficit; I'm requesting Congress consider my proposals for addressing the unemployment problem...." Now both issues are distinct, the debate begins and the opposition is disarmed, and exposed to be 'anti-employment' if they criticize.

Or there's the way it was handled this morning...


The parameters of my discussion remain the same and are based on the same criteria. If I had been saying "We should do X" for the last year, and the president said "I have come to the conclusion that we should do X", I would roll my eyes a bit and say "Brilliant idea, Einstein." I would not suddenly take the position "No! We shouldn't do X. We should do Y". That is what I see the republican party as doing.

I don't expect politics to not to be played by politicians. That's like expecting football not to be played by football players. But I do see this, and it's just my opinion as mentioned in the first posting, as a very noticable part of what the republican game plan has been since Obama's election. I don't want them silenced. They have the right to select a strategy of doing everything they can to see that Obama fails no matter what the cost to try to get back into power. But it is somethng I think should be noted and remembered.

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 10:23:43 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

They have the right to select a strategy of doing everything they can to see that Obama fails no matter what the cost to try to get back into power. But it is somethng I think should be noted and remembered.


Sure - although remembering may be a function of their reaction causing the problem in the first place. However, when the dissension to the Health Care Bill has them compared by the Senate Majority leader Reid, to supporting slavery - inclusion isn't in the cards and cooperation shouldn't be expected.

Obama and the filibuster-proof party in power are, based upon results, failing on their own. The Republican's are just pointing it out, as would be the case were the positions reversed. The Democrats have, by allowing Pelosi and Reid to dictate policy and programs, made it very easy for the opposition.

Someone correctly pointed out the Reid and Pelosi were not part of the Administration. However, from a list of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama; who has accomplished more of their personal, and political agenda? Yet who stands as the figurehead? Obama in their shadow can't cast one of his own. I'm very surprised he has been so manipulated - again speaking to his inexperience politically and administratively.

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 10:52:06 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

They have the right to select a strategy of doing everything they can to see that Obama fails no matter what the cost to try to get back into power. But it is somethng I think should be noted and remembered.


Sure - although remembering may be a function of their reaction causing the problem in the first place. However, when the dissension to the Health Care Bill has them compared by the Senate Majority leader Reid, to supporting slavery - inclusion isn't in the cards and cooperation shouldn't be expected.

Obama and the filibuster-proof party in power are, based upon results, failing on their own. The Republican's are just pointing it out, as would be the case were the positions reversed. The Democrats have, by allowing Pelosi and Reid to dictate policy and programs, made it very easy for the opposition.

Someone correctly pointed out the Reid and Pelosi were not part of the Administration. However, from a list of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama; who has accomplished more of their personal, and political agenda? Yet who stands as the figurehead? Obama in their shadow can't cast one of his own. I'm very surprised he has been so manipulated - again speaking to his inexperience politically and administratively.


What the democrats are doing wrong is a subject for another, and admittedly lengthy thread of it's own. As is Mr. Ried's ridiculous comments (not that he compared those against the healthcare reform to supporters of slavery, but his comments were certainly ill advised and so easy to twist that he might as well have).

The myth is that even without these comments, Ried and Pelosi, the republicans would have shown an inclination to do anything other than they have done since day one of this administration. My problem with Obama is not that he didn't find some way to bridge the party gap. It is that he hasn't yet seemed to realize that it's not going to happen and concentrate on getting things done while he has the majority to do it.

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 11:26:48 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Very good Term.
I've been saying that all along, we have no "leaders" just "servants of The People."
That's what we were taught in Massachusetts in the 1950's and 60's when I went to school.
"The govt" doesn't *dictate* to The People like the E.P.A. is trying to do now!
Damm Popeye your hitting your thumb again.When the E.P.A  dictates to somebody they are simply serving the greater good.They are after all the Enviormental Protection Agency...and what the hell we all benifit when the enviorment is protected....or don't you see that as a good thing?



C'mon Mike, why don't you just come out and admit it, you're a Republican, right?

_____________________________

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 11:28:55 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

The myth is that even without these comments, Ried and Pelosi, the republicans would have shown an inclination to do anything other than they have done since day one of this administration.

That's still projecting an expected response. Truth is, we'll never know and this is the environment created, not by the party out of power, but by the party in power. Reid and Pelosi have the platform and made the speech - not made or not made as "leadership" (you see that word implies they speak for many), there is nothing to respond to.

We will never know - but dealing with adversaries for a big part of my day - pissing them off with a stupid comment like that wouldn't be a way to generate any cooperation or expectation of bipartisan effort to solve anything. Pointed to me - I'd do anything in my power to make sure they'd fail; while giving them a history lesson about the defunct Wigs the start up of the Republican party and it's influence over affecting emancipation. Although history and facts in Washington DC are rarely a consideration.

However, this thread was originally about the use of TARP funds and Obama coming forth with a speech about the use of them as they are repaid. You want to get back into that and speak to how well commingling the repayment and an unemployment initiative will work out?

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 11:44:09 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Very good Term.
I've been saying that all along, we have no "leaders" just "servants of The People."
That's what we were taught in Massachusetts in the 1950's and 60's when I went to school.
"The govt" doesn't *dictate* to The People like the E.P.A. is trying to do now!
Damm Popeye your hitting your thumb again.When the E.P.A  dictates to somebody they are simply serving the greater good.They are after all the Enviormental Protection Agency...and what the hell we all benifit when the enviorment is protected....or don't you see that as a good thing?



C'mon Mike, why don't you just come out and admit it, you're a Republican, right?
Shhhsh Popeye...you will blow my cover,and after years of building my network ...all pointed towards 2012 when I will suddenly switch gears and support Sarah Palin,thereby dealing a death blow to this Democratic usurper President!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 1:14:13 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The myth is that even without these comments, Ried and Pelosi, the republicans would have shown an inclination to do anything other than they have done since day one of this administration.

That's still projecting an expected response. Truth is, we'll never know and this is the environment created, not by the party out of power, but by the party in power. Reid and Pelosi have the platform and made the speech - not made or not made as "leadership" (you see that word implies they speak for many), there is nothing to respond to.

We will never know - but dealing with adversaries for a big part of my day - pissing them off with a stupid comment like that wouldn't be a way to generate any cooperation or expectation of bipartisan effort to solve anything. Pointed to me - I'd do anything in my power to make sure they'd fail; while giving them a history lesson about the defunct Wigs the start up of the Republican party and it's influence over affecting emancipation. Although history and facts in Washington DC are rarely a consideration.

However, this thread was originally about the use of TARP funds and Obama coming forth with a speech about the use of them as they are repaid. You want to get back into that and speak to how well commingling the repayment and an unemployment initiative will work out?



I have to disagree with your premise, Merc. The republicans had formed a solid "If we can't make the rules we're not playing" block long before Ried's stupid comments. I'm not going to play chicken and egg here, but by now it's pretty well set how things are being played. Which brings us back to the initial conversation.

The initial conversation was not whether the the comingling of TARP repayments as deficit reduction is the best answer, although I will be glad to discuss that with you. The original thought of the thread was noticing that even when he does the things that the republicans have been advocating entheusiasticly, the republicans would rather derail the effort than to work to get even those things they have advocated put into place. Now I personally think that I have given a reasonable explanation of why this is so. If you truly believe it's that they have suddenly developed fiscal responsibility or a great respect for the law in the last 12 months, we can discuss that too.

Actually, if Obama has managed to get any in congress or the senate to develop a sense of fiscal responsibility or respect for the law as written, even if it is on the republican side, his presidency has not been in vain so far.


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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 2:02:41 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

If you truly believe it's that they have suddenly developed fiscal responsibility or a great respect for the law in the last 12 months, we can discuss that too. Actually, if Obama has managed to get any in congress or the senate to develop a sense of fiscal responsibility or respect for the law as written, even if it is on the republican side, his presidency has not been in vain so far.


I have no such delusion. I'll remind you - I see no distinction in the parties, only a different agenda within them to ultimately achieve the exact same result for the individuals involved-personal gain.

As I stated, the Democrats put the weapon in the hands of their enemies. Go back and look, from Day 1, I advocated for Obama and the Democrats to put forth and implement everything they could when they had the political equity. Doing so - would have created no less and no more criticism from the Republicans, but by now - a year later, there would have been results to consider from implemented plans versus discussions about obstructionism.

quote:

The original thought of the thread was noticing that even when he does the things that the republicans have been advocating entheusiasticly, the republicans would rather derail the effort than to work to get even those things they have advocated put into place.
It's no longer amazing to see a group condemned for following the letter of law and the specifics within a Bill passed by Congress. Even if there weren't a unemployment crisis, I'm sure, no matter what party was in power, someone would want to build a bridge to nowhere with the recovered funds.

The fact that Obama tried to present what may or may not be a good idea by commingling it with a jobs program has me questioning his ability.

As enough time has passed we can look at the specifics of what's been proposed.

A 'cash for caulkers' (That link will take you to a article about the speech.) program, a one year elimination of capital gains tax for small business, public works projects, elimination of fees on loans to small businesses combined with a 'Fannie Mae' type government guaranteed paid back. He said "We avoided the depression many feared" (I know many who would say in response - "not so fast!" with that representation). Whet on with the now expected and, strictly based on polls, wearing thin assignment of blame pointed to the Republicans (insuring more partisanship), and said the Democrats took "a series of difficult steps".

No price-tag, estimates say the jobs creation program (remember the great results and tracking?) will cost $70 Billion. Another $50 Billion going for infrastructure. Obama seemed to go out of his way to NOT call this another Stimulus package. For good reason, reminded about it - people will start wondering why the last one didn't work, what happened with money, and why this one would be different.

I don't know Spinner, nothing new and no 'CHANGE!' perceived from this seat. Lots of legitimate reasons for criticism. No clear plan or method disclosed; and next week Obama's leaving to go and associate himself with the, at best under suspicion of fraud, 'global warming' religious retreat in Copenhagen.

Hell - The dissenting party should send Obama a thank-you note for giving them talking points for the foreseeable future.

Either too little or not enough and not something that rallies the troops, which I think it fundamentally missing and at the same time essential.

Image and perception is important in politics and the economy. What's coming from Obama and Congress doesn't provide anything positive to point to. The Republicans are background noise - for now.

Or am I wrong and you came away from this speech empowered, ready to produce, and mobilized behind the initiatives presented today? Regarding your charge of Republican obstructionism - why did he give them the ability to do so?

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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 4:01:46 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Or am I wrong and you came away from this speech empowered, ready to produce, and mobilized behind the initiatives presented today? Regarding your charge of Republican obstructionism - why did he give them the ability to do so? ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



First off, I didn't get to hear today's speech. I was at work (some of us progressives do work now and again) but I can tell you that I don't expect a politician's speech to get me empowered, ready to produce or terribly motivated. I think of it more as, when a pig flies, you don't blame it for not staying up long.

What I do see is some plans I agree with. A cut in capital gains taxes for small business, some hard, on the ground infrastructure projects (not only do we need the jobs they will create but this country is falling apart at the seams infrastructure wise and I kind of like the idea of bridges that don't fall down while I'm driving on them) and some kind of movement (much later than I'd have liked to have seen) on getting the credit market thawed out to small and medium sized businesses so things can get back to the new normal (whatever that is, I think everyone knows the good times are over for a good while now). In short, it's something I'd rather see tried than not tried.

As for allowing the republicans to do so, there isn't a whole lot that can be done about that. Obama never had the control over the senate and congress (no matter who was in the majority) that republican presidents. Let's remember that Ried said, before the inauguration, "I do not work for Obama. I work with him.". I can't blame him for the fact that Pelosi and Ried have been carrying out their own little agendas and not helped the situation at all.

I am still of the belief, though, that had Pelosi and Ried been taken out and quietly put to bed with warm milk and cookies on the day of the inauguration, the situation would still be the same. The republicans realized that only the total failure of this administration would put them back in power. They don't have the power to actually make this happen, but they do seem to be cheering for it pretty damn loudly and I find that kind of unattractive. Again, it's an opinion thing.


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RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 5:01:42 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Or am I wrong and you came away from this speech empowered, ready to produce, and mobilized behind the initiatives presented today? Regarding your charge of Republican obstructionism - why did he give them the ability to do so? ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



First off, I didn't get to hear today's speech. I was at work (some of us progressives do work now and again) but I can tell you that I don't expect a politician's speech to get me empowered, ready to produce or terribly motivated. I think of it more as, when a pig flies, you don't blame it for not staying up long.

What I do see is some plans I agree with. A cut in capital gains taxes for small business, some hard, on the ground infrastructure projects (not only do we need the jobs they will create but this country is falling apart at the seams infrastructure wise and I kind of like the idea of bridges that don't fall down while I'm driving on them) and some kind of movement (much later than I'd have liked to have seen) on getting the credit market thawed out to small and medium sized businesses so things can get back to the new normal (whatever that is, I think everyone knows the good times are over for a good while now). In short, it's something I'd rather see tried than not tried.

As for allowing the republicans to do so, there isn't a whole lot that can be done about that. Obama never had the control over the senate and congress (no matter who was in the majority) that republican presidents. Let's remember that Ried said, before the inauguration, "I do not work for Obama. I work with him.". I can't blame him for the fact that Pelosi and Ried have been carrying out their own little agendas and not helped the situation at all.

I am still of the belief, though, that had Pelosi and Ried been taken out and quietly put to bed with warm milk and cookies on the day of the inauguration, the situation would still be the same. The republicans realized that only the total failure of this administration would put them back in power. They don't have the power to actually make this happen, but they do seem to be cheering for it pretty damn loudly and I find that kind of unattractive. Again, it's an opinion thing.




When you know that his policies are either destined for total failure or will succeed only temporarily and then flush the US as we know it down the drain, it doesnt take "cheering" for total failure, its inevitable one way or the other.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 5:40:25 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

The banks are in hurry to pay government aid back. I guess it removes the restrictions from year end bonus payments.
In reality, it should be viewed as borrowed money.  Asking for responsible use of this money is far from national destruction.
Remember that the economists estimated that only  ~10% of Obama stimulus package money spending had something to do with job creation.


And don't forget, only about 1/3 has been spent.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 5:44:00 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

When you know that his policies are either destined for total failure or will succeed only temporarily and then flush the US as we know it down the drain, it doesnt take "cheering" for total failure, its inevitable one way or the other.  ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy




It seems that you think the republicans had the answers...tax breaks, support for small businesses, spending on hard infrastructure projects. Wait a minute, now those aren't good ideas anymore.

Oh..I know....just pay down the deficit by a few billion and everything will be great again.

Come on, WD, admit it. It isn't that you're praying for failure of the Obama administration. You're praying for it with no conception of what could do a better job.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 5:45:22 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

And don't forget, only about 1/3 has been spent.  ORIGINAL: thornhappy




Shhh, Thorn. Don't interrupt the right wing rants with facts. It makes them cranky.


(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 5:50:17 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Spinner,do you actually need him to answer that question?....more importantly do you expect him to give,were he so inclined,an honest answer?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The GOP and the Politics of National Destruction - 12/8/2009 6:10:37 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Spinner,do you actually need him to answer that question?....more importantly do you expect him to give,were he so inclined,an honest answer?


Call me a cockeyed optimist, Mike...but I keep hoping that there are SOME ideas on the other side other than just to get Obama out. I mean at least the progressives have an agenda.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 40
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