Why Gold ?

Why Gold ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 2:12:06 PM)
Just what is it about Gold that makes it so desireable ? ( am talking pure gold here, 24 carat stuff, as 9 carat is more other stuff than gold) Is it, it's worth ? It's colour ? It's relative softness ? Is it our history ? Is it, it's modern use in Electronics ? If gold was a plentiful material, would it be so desireable ?

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 2:46:40 PM)
Gold and silver stand 6000 years of being a store of value. No matter how a currency devalues- your gold will not. Some think both come from stars. Each have a finite supply and can not be "printed". My brother is almost on board. As most of your know I am into silver- I started per TARP. Then it was $9. I am up 95%. Not bad for 1 years worth of "work". But the key is- it is universally recognized as a store of value- it is portable- and the supply is finite.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 3:34:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy No matter how a currency devalues- your gold will not. That's not really true is it. Both gold and silver prices rise and fall. You can lose that erect ass pretty quick. You do remember what happened to the Hunt brothers when silver prices collapsed?

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 3:46:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy No matter how a currency devalues- your gold will not. That's not really true is it. Both gold and silver prices rise and fall. You can lose that erect ass pretty quick. You do remember what happened to the Hunt brothers when silver prices collapsed? My money is where my mouth is on this one. Silver can drop in 1/2 and that will mean then that I break even. So I am not worried about it. Only gold in silver is money. Per the Bible, per the constitution. But hey- if you like paper gold- go for it. :-) Isnt the government nice by making more of it for us? lol

flcouple2009 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 3:57:44 PM)
Your suggestion is that gold or silver can not devalue. It is like any other traded commodity. The price rises and falls. The road is littered with people who have lost vast sums of money trying to speculate in precious metals.

Aneirin -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Gold and silver stand 6000 years of being a store of value. No matter how a currency devalues- your gold will not. Some think both come from stars. Each have a finite supply and can not be "printed". My brother is almost on board. As most of your know I am into silver- I started per TARP. Then it was $9. I am up 95%. Not bad for 1 years worth of "work". But the key is- it is universally recognized as a store of value- it is portable- and the supply is finite. Gold, is not finite until it is proved finite, i.e., we have extracted every grain from sea water and mined out the planet, and as far as my physics is concerned ,if it and silver came from the stars, then it came with every other material, but gold as a material to use, it at last has a use in the electronics industry, or where corrosion resistance is a priority, other than that, I cannot understand it's worth, surely mankind does not hoard it just because it looks pretty. To me, something has to have a use for it to be of use. I understand the past, particularly the European past, it's missions of conquest was about the stuff, particularly the conquest of the Incas and other South American peoples, it is one of the reasons I dislike gold as a material, it is dripping in blood and inspires all the negative aspects of humanity ( and it is highly likely that the gold that blood was spilled for, is still around, but now in different forms, wedding rings and such, then one wonders, if metal can retain energy, no wonder the failure of marriages). Silver, well that one is ok, it does have a good use, in the sterilizing of water, what we need to live, it cleans what we need, but gold, what use has it ? Is it just because of our history gold is so important, we still need to hoard the stuff because it looks pretty, or is there any real use for it ?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin or where corrosion resistance is a priority Bingo After ten years a 50 kg weight of gold will still be a 50 kg weight of gold. It is very stable thus people put value in that constant. People like constants. You don’t measure 1g with weights anymore because the volume of weights is constantly reducing. Things react with other things to create new things; the by products of these reactions may hold less value than the original thing. People also place value in diamonds which for all intents and purpose are of no real industrial use anymore whatsoever (apart from cutting tools but they are the cheap low grade diamonds).

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:21:08 PM)
Aneirin, Gold is hard for me to afford. I own a small bit- but silver is the bulk of my wealth/lifes work, savings. Greed to excess is bad- whatever the form. But with real things- I am better protected from government follies. My goal is to trade it for a nice piece of land later. What will you trade for food? I mean when a farmstand no longer takes paper? ...and granted- it could be a matter of just eating. Get this- I wear no jewelry. I am not too interested in fashion. I am frugal and can blend in with the rich or the poor. The US is run by large investment banks. Gold and silver is a threat to the establishment.. because it is harder to tax, control, seize, and track. Ask yourself why so many Goldman Saches people are in Obamas office - and in Bushes office. Each ounce of silver is a vote against the federal reserve. America - history of gold is not as blood splattered as other countries- but we have has some land grabs. And at the end of the day- what can you offer in return for food? The system is in collapse. Which means the rules are changing back to historical ways. Greed, blood. is not so much with gold the metal- but POWER. At the moment the dollar is said power... but we all know the dollar is expected to be replaced. So then what? How will you eat? What can you give in return for food?

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Your suggestion is that gold or silver can not devalue. It is like any other traded commodity. The price rises and falls. The road is littered with people who have lost vast sums of money trying to speculate in precious metals. I have now a years jump on how it is done. Over the years I lost plenty in Mutual funds and in stocks. Commondities can go down in value. The COMEX I expect to be busted in the next few years. Because they are selling gold and silver which they do not own. 90% junk silver is silver. Those are coins 1964 and prior- dimes- quarters, halfs, and dollars. which even if silver when down- you still have the coin. the dime will still be worth .10. Currently the 90% dimes worth $1.35. So you don't need a fancy degree to do this. Check your change. You grams old coins. I am not a speculator. Some are when they go into leverage on contracts. So yes- those people can and have lost money.

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:32:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Gold and silver stand 6000 years of being a store of value. No matter how a currency devalues- your gold will not. Some think both come from stars. Each have a finite supply and can not be "printed". My brother is almost on board. As most of your know I am into silver- I started per TARP. Then it was $9. I am up 95%. Not bad for 1 years worth of "work". But the key is- it is universally recognized as a store of value- it is portable- and the supply is finite. Gold, is not finite until it is proved finite, i.e., we have extracted every grain from sea water and mined out the planet, and as far as my physics is concerned ,if it and silver came from the stars, then it came with every other material, but gold as a material to use, it at last has a use in the electronics industry, or where corrosion resistance is a priority, other than that, I cannot understand it's worth, surely mankind does not hoard it just because it looks pretty. To me, something has to have a use for it to be of use. I understand the past, particularly the European past, it's missions of conquest was about the stuff, particularly the conquest of the Incas and other South American peoples, it is one of the reasons I dislike gold as a material, it is dripping in blood and inspires all the negative aspects of humanity ( and it is highly likely that the gold that blood was spilled for, is still around, but now in different forms, wedding rings and such, then one wonders, if metal can retain energy, no wonder the failure of marriages). Silver, well that one is ok, it does have a good use, in the sterilizing of water, what we need to live, it cleans what we need, but gold, what use has it ? Is it just because of our history gold is so important, we still need to hoard the stuff because it looks pretty, or is there any real use for it ? Lets take silver. Suppose every person on the planet wanted one ounce. This is not possible. There is only about 1/7th of an ounce for each person. Just like the peak oil - a few think there is peak gold. In a few decades silver might even be more rare then gold.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:34:37 PM)
Nobody likes gold jewellery most favour the silver don’t they.

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:46:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Nobody likes gold jewellery most favour the silver don’t they. I really don't know. Buying has picked up tho in India and China. (as well as Russia) Those governments are encouraging their people to buy. Coins are easier to cash in. Males seem to prefer coins/bullion, females tend to prefer jewelry. Silver is alot cheaper so those who might buy gold will be tempted to buy silver if the budget is tight. Both have been used as money thru out history. The dollar was backed by gold up until 1971.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 4:52:49 PM)
Aesthetically speaking I was meaning.

Aneirin -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 5:19:06 PM)
The trouble with collecting bullion, is where do you store it, banks, do you trust them, and thet get robbed from time to time, the safest bet I suppose would be bury it under your house, pick up the floor boards and dig a hole and hope no one is wise to your plan, or gets wise and you do not get moved away from your home for any significant length of time, the draft perhaps. Storing it is one thing, but transporting it is another, if it is gold and gold holds it's present value, just chuck a brick in a bag and go cash it, if for whatever reason it devalues, you are going to need transport to shift it and with that, an armoured vehicle and army you can trust, as, as soon as people see you have bullion, they will take a very great interest in you. What I see of value, is skills, not precious metals, metals are just materials that can be worked, but it takes skill to work them. I invest in skills and with that, pre I.T. age skills, even pre electrical age skills, I can work with my hands and the most basic of tools, it is my ability with my hands that I will use to trade for food, just like it was done before our centralised society. I am skilled in copper, tin, silver and black smithing, wood work and machine repair, basic skills, but they are of use now, and may come again to be skills worth having. Oh, and I tend to make my own tools too. But I still do not understand why gold is so desireable beyond it's modern use in corrosion resistant applications, surely it is not for those applications it is being hoarded. Is it everyone wants it because we have been educated in the fact that gold is the supreme wealth product, but as a product that demands serious transportation, storage and handling considerations, is it worth it, is it worth more than everything else that is needed in its placement. This mystical metal must have something about it to be so desireable.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 5:29:10 PM)
Actually gold doesn't have as much value as fictitious currency does. These central banks can just add zeros to numbers in a way that if we did it would be called fraud. Currency used to be the receipt for precious metals stored in banks but now there is not enough gold in these central banks to back up the currency. So in effect gold is only of no value now because people started placing more value in the receipts for gold than the gold itself. People always traded gold for services in the past but nobody wants to lug heavy gold around so they started keeping all that gold at the bank and exchanging receipts instead. Just like casino chips are currency in some parts of the world. This is the alchemy of how you turn plastic into gold. It is irrelevant what the unit of currency is, you can start with bartering if you like (swapping one service for another) but sooner or later someone will say ‘I’ll give you an IOU and paint your house later’ then the person will think ‘I don’t actually need my house painted so I swap this IOU with someone else that does for another service they offer.’ Then you will have your currency starting over.

Marc2b -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 10:16:26 PM)
quote: Just what is it about Gold that makes it so desireable ? ( am talking pure gold here, 24 carat stuff, as 9 carat is more other stuff than gold) Is it, it's worth ? It's colour ? It's relative softness ? Is it our history ? Is it, it's modern use in Electronics ? If gold was a plentiful material, would it be so desireable ? You pretty much hit on it. Gold is malleable, can be crafted into beautiful and useful things, and is relatively rare. Mostly it has value, though, because we attach value to it.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/8/2009 11:07:36 PM)
Holy shit !. I think I agree with everyone here. Fuck you people this is bound to be no fun at all. At any rate, anything you can't use now is merely a substitute. In it's pure form money is simply a medium of exchange and used to be seashells in some culture. The problem is that anybody could pick up those seashells, so at some point they had to be a certain kind of seashells. Whoever acted as comptroller or whatever of course eventually had to make a special mark to make it valid currency. I chose the word currency very carefully. The root of the word is current. It is what is currently sought after, traded, worked for and so forth. If there were any loans, they were probably among friends who didn't charge interest. Only those who afford to loan would loan, and the borrower might show gratitude out of some sense of decency. The interest and taxation part came later. Back then there was practically no inflation or anything. And really the way I am starting to think is that the reason there was so little inflation was precisely because of the lack of interest and taxation. But that is not the point. The point is gold was most likely chosen because of it's scarcity. Once the sores of government appeared on the planet, the thing to do was to gain control of the gold. Gold was the old money in those times. Now one poster actually postulated that this fake ass fiat scrip they print is worth more than gold. Many may dismiss that, but think first. You want gold only ? Try going to a restaurant and paying with gold. Try filling your gas tank and paying with gold. So if at one time we agreed that gold was the medium of exchange, we can similarly agree that money is now the medium of exchange. That doesn't mean this is a good thing. When salt was used as currency it's quality could be judged, it's value apportioned truly by market forces only and was widely used in trade in certain parts of the world. Now like gold, and even moreso silver, there are uses for this substance. When Man got bad land he would basically flood it with the ocean water, which will replenish it. This was not possible for many, and it was impractical to salt the fields. so they took to adding it directly to the food. This apparently worked. So it had a socially imposed value as well as real value, much in the way gold or silver does today. Again, the variables are different but the same logic applies. The difference lies not only in the volume needed to sustain whatever. Now it is technology, before it was different. It also lies in the source of the demand. Now them old guys with the seashells are out of the game. Over the years and centuries the pieces and the players, and some of the rules have changed. But the board itself remains the same. Actually all precious metals, rare earths and all that kind of stuff is coming due to leap in value, it just depends on when. I hear nickel is up now from a scapper. Who knows what else ? You see when you engage in an economy like this, there is yet one more variable. The gold and silver which are considered by many to be the real currency do not realize that there are external factors affecting it's relative value which would not exist in a "real" ecomony. But given this, does a real economy exist ? Has one ever ? Maybe the guy with the seashells was right in the first place. So the beach was welfare. T

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/9/2009 8:44:45 AM)
if gold was fully in proportion to the dollars that exist- the price would be $56,000.000.00 an ounce. Of course the dollar on the governments balance sheet is around $38 an ounce. Todays $1100 price is still a bargain. We were broke in 1980, remember Reagan? Today there are 660 trillion $ in derivatives- most of which will never be paid. Wall st and DC looting the country and the world. Which in a few years- will render gold and silver, and food as the units of value. They will try a new currency but that too will be fiat... and bumpy. ....56,000,000.00 not a typo. I dont expect gold to go that high. But we will see $x000.00 gold and $x0 silver- sooner then 5 years. as to where to store it- I wish I had that problem. It does not take up alot of space.

servantforuse -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/9/2009 12:05:14 PM)
If you bought gold last week at $1200.00 an ounce, you just lost a bunch of money. It is trading today at $1120..

pahunkboy -> RE: Why Gold ? (12/9/2009 12:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse If you bought gold last week at $1200.00 an ounce, you just lost a bunch of money. It is trading today at $1120.. I over bought all year- and still would- but I am out of federal reserve notes.

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