• "It's OK for the insurgents to use their women to hide weapons but it's not OK for us [men] to search them," said Staff Sgt. Joshua Yost, 27, of Shelton, Wash. "So now, we have to break our own rules and bring women into combat just so they can search the women."
  
• The platoon members spread across and around the fields surrounding the village. An announcement from a dilapidated mosque alerted villagers of the impending search.
  "Well, the bad guys know we're coming," said the interpreter, laughing. "They're probably hiding their weapons by now."
  Some of the men squatting outside the mosque looked stoic. Others stared in anger.
  In the mosque, the soldiers discovered a 9 mm handgun with clips.
  
• "We have to follow the Karzai 12 rules. But the Taliban has no rules," he said. "Our soldiers have to juggle all these rules and regulations and they do it without hesitation despite everything. It's not easy for anyone out here."
  
• Then he added, referring to the rules of engagement that his forces try to observe, "For our guys, it's tough. Sometimes they feel they have their hands tied behind their backs."
  
• Interviewed by The Times, Sahed the imam said U.S. troops were "respectful to his people and provided security."
  "I tell my people in the mosque to not become suicide bombers and to not kill those who want to help us," he said.
  However, asked about the presence of U.S. troops in his village, Sahed said they "need to go. Get out of Afghanistan or it will never be resolved. Between Islam and the infidel there can never be a relationship."
  
• The last quote points to a positive result: Contacted by e-mail after The Times' reporter and photographer had returned to the U.S., Capt. Thoreen described a clinic his unit had since hosted, which treated 75 locals including 20 women.
  "It was a huge success. The people are becoming much more open and friendly," he said. As evidence of that success, he cited a drop in IED attacks on his soldiers.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And people actually think we can win a war against one of history's most difficult fighting forces under these circumstances. Money and blood down the drain.

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Were you guys not paying attention the last eight years?

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"The US plays by one rule book,the enemy plays with another"
Are you suggesting US forces should adopt the tactics of our enemy?

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Funny thing ...if my son were to join and face deployment....were told he must learn to be inhumane and vicious....I would tell him to go AWOL.....losing his humanity by aping the behavior of our enemies would not be something I would want for him

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And people actually think we can win a war against one of history's most difficult fighting forces under these circumstances. Money and blood down the drain.

It's interesting that this criticism of our involvement in Afghanistan has only surfaced since Obama took office.

Were you guys not paying attention the last eight years?

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And people actually think we can win a war against one of history's most difficult fighting forces under these circumstances. Money and blood down the drain.

It's interesting that this criticism of our involvement in Afghanistan has only surfaced since Obama took office.

Were you guys not paying attention the last eight years?

Ummmm...maybe because Afghanistan wasn't escalated until Obama took office? Ive always said we cannot win a ground war there, no matter who was CIC.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And people actually think we can win a war against one of history's most difficult fighting forces under these circumstances. Money and blood down the drain.

It's interesting that this criticism of our involvement in Afghanistan has only surfaced since Obama took office.

Were you guys not paying attention the last eight years?

Ummmm...maybe because Afghanistan wasn't escalated until Obama took office? Ive always said we cannot win a ground war there, no matter who was CIC.

Surely it escalated the day we invaded. Many of you right wingers were claiming Obama should make his mind up on troop levels last week. Since these have not been sent yet, your post doesnt hold water.

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No, your post is full of shit. I am not "many right wingers" and RML named me specifically. And to your point I never said he "should make up his mind on troop levels", I said that delaying that long and then claiming that adding troops is clearly the only alternative that he was talking out of both sides of his ass. Again, find one post from me supporting a ground war in Afghanistan.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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No, your post is full of shit. I am not "many right wingers" and RML named me specifically. And to your point I never said he "should make up his mind on troop levels", I said that delaying that long and then claiming that adding troops is clearly the only alternative that he was talking out of both sides of his ass. Again, find one post from me supporting a ground war in Afghanistan.

It's clear that it is easier to attack your position, or assume what it is, than it is to defend these newly minted 'Rules' which the deployed troops will have to follow.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

"The US plays by one rule book,the enemy plays with another"
Are you suggesting US forces should adopt the tactics of our enemy?

No - I'm nder the mistaken impression we are at war. We have US troops on the ground who can't protect themselves. War is fought and people die. That is what war is. You kill the enemy you protect yourself and you shoot people who have harbored or are the enemy.

The General and his Commander and Chief see it differently. You agree - and support the.... whatever you want to call it. The decision puts our troops at risk and provides a strategy for the enemy. A people who strap bombs on children and tell them to walk over to a bus stop will surely always keep one handy when, under these rules, that inhibits any shots being fired at them.

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Funny thing ...if my son were to join and face deployment....were told he must learn to be inhumane and vicious....I would tell him to go AWOL.....losing his humanity by aping the behavior of our enemies would not be something I would want for him

Sad to see you would have your child be a martyr for this cause. A soldier job is not easy under the best of circumstances. They are trained to kill - that is their job. Their Commander and Chief has encumbered their ability to do their job at the same time putting them at risk. The integrity of command has, in my opinion, been made invalid.

Joining the military is different than joining the 'peace corp'. If a soldier joins and loses his/her humanity by doing his job - they should have read the brochure when they signed up. I've never heard of any recruiter listing the opportunity to join the military to discover your 'humanity'.

However you'll have to describe to me whatever you have in mind how our military, or any, kill their enemies in a 'humane' and non-'vicious' manner. It must have a reference in mind or else you wouldn't refer to a reference as a rebuttal. Maybe you can describe how the enemy humanely beheads captured 'infidels'?

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

No, your post is full of shit. I am not "many right wingers" and RML named me specifically. And to your point I never said he "should make up his mind on troop levels", I said that delaying that long and then claiming that adding troops is clearly the only alternative that he was talking out of both sides of his ass. Again, find one post from me supporting a ground war in Afghanistan.

It's clear that it is easier to attack your position, or assume what it is, than it is to defend these newly minted 'Rules' which the deployed troops will have to follow.

His position was Obama had escalated the war, Willbes  words not mine. He also claims he has never suggested anything other than withdrawal. Thats another false claim as shown by his words ( see the theme here ) from another thread.

" Get the hell out and be prepared to try and contain the inevitable takeover by Islamic extremists, or get the fucking job done right and stop trying to tell the professionals how to wage war. "