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Paper ? - 12/10/2009 3:17:53 PM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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As I seem to be living in a sea of paper consisting of computer print outs, written notes, discarded notes and piles of other research notes including sketches and drawings on my run up to a college assignment, I have come to wonder; paper, I sure seem to be using more of it than I ever did, and this is the I.T. age, an age once believed to resign pen and paper to the annals of history.

So, my question is, given we have this wonderful electronic technology, has our use of paper declined ?

Or, has it increased ?

I am thinking increased, based upon my own increased use of the stuff, but to note, when I can find it at the right price, I use recycled paper for my inkjet printer, as, it is genuinely horrifying me the amount I use.

To remember, paper comes from wood pulp, which comes from trees, the very things we need to reduce this overabundance of carbon dioxide we are told is in the air.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Paper ? - 12/10/2009 5:29:28 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Yes. I use less paper.

But that is because I dont have a functional printer.

I have to see- 2 friends out of area- do not do email- and prefer paper letters. So that limits what I send. My handwriting is bad. Holding a pen is foreign to me. (really)

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 2

RE: Paper ? - 12/10/2009 5:42:59 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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I know for a fact that Microsoft invented the paperless office in which is the paperless photocopier and paperless printer and every other electrical appliance we forgot to buy new paper for..

You press that green button 500+ times and paper stops coming out it's great

What I have noticed is people prefer warm paper to cold paper and this is the reason why the photocopier was invented in the first place. The downside is the paper looses it’s warmth after a certain while so you have to stick the paper back on the glass and get new warm paper using the green button.

This is the limit of my knowledge involving paper, even that stuff I learnt at primary school about how paper is made I have since forgotten. I believe it comes from trees originally but now additionally it is also sourced from sewage treatment plants.

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Memory Lane...been there done that.

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Post #: 3

RE: Paper ? - 12/10/2009 5:46:29 PM

pahunkboy

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Lap tops have made things- well- so easy. So in the past 3 years- I have changed to less - happenstance.

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Post #: 4

RE: Paper ? - 12/10/2009 5:51:39 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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Sure laptops are great if you don't mind the resulting higher risk of being tracked by the government.

I thought you'd be aware of this and the associated risk of genital burns?

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

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Post #: 5

RE: Paper ? - 12/10/2009 9:49:23 PM

Termyn8or

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FR

By word of mouth only, I have heard of something new. A new way to buy books. You get this foldup thing which must be a basic laptop with two screens and it opens vertically like a book, and displays both obverse and reverse, of course the page flip somehow. Apparently the thing has NVRAM or some sort of memory like a card or a stick instead of a drive. It is loaded through a port when you buy a book.

The idea sounds quite plausible to me although I have not seen one yet. I guess it's a pretty new idea and who knows how it will take off, but they are out there I guess. It's probably only worth it for avid readers.

As far as office use I would surmise that we could use less paper but for two factors. More people, more regulation, things that need to be signed. We should use less paper, but I think it possible we use more. The figures should be out there. At any rate, I can tell you from personal experience that paper is no longer suitable for technical fields in most cases. Some of the prints I use at work would have to be printed the size of a queen size bedsheet just to be legible enough to know where to aim the magnifying glass. Others are structured differently and then run into over a thousand pages. One I have to get into next week has 1,848 pages. While there is alot of text, some pages need to be magnified over 20 times to see on the screen. In either case, can you imagine that mess all over the place with paper ?

It's not that I really like this trend, but a trend it will be if it isn't already.

T

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 6

RE: Paper ? - 12/11/2009 12:53:00 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Sure laptops are great if you don't mind the resulting higher risk of being tracked by the government.

I thought you'd be aware of this and the associated risk of genital burns?

So then- the governing one cuts off your pipe. All your stuff is electronic. Neat huh? For this reason- I still have my rare book collection.

Who is in control?

With a wire- snip.

On the bookshelf- they cant cut my wire- and then I cant enjoy my books. Now can they?

BTW- my cousin is in Law Enforcement. I know you don't want to sell your land... but I see you been carrying on online- and holy cow- a pity if the wife and the boss find out- I think I just heard you offer to sell me your land at a ultra cheap price. Yeah- by George - I DID hear that! Next can we talk about your car. Both my brother and my brother in law work in IT- and I think you are about to sell me your car VERY cheap. Yup! We cant have your secrets exposed- buying cigarrettes out of area to avoid the tax- yisk yisk.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 7

RE: Paper ? - 12/11/2009 1:03:03 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

By word of mouth only, I have heard of something new. A new way to buy books. You get this foldup thing which must be a basic laptop with two screens and it opens vertically like a book, and displays both obverse and reverse, of course the page flip somehow. Apparently the thing has NVRAM or some sort of memory like a card or a stick instead of a drive. It is loaded through a port when you buy a book.

The idea sounds quite plausible to me although I have not seen one yet. I guess it's a pretty new idea and who knows how it will take off, but they are out there I guess. It's probably only worth it for avid readers.

As far as office use I would surmise that we could use less paper but for two factors. More people, more regulation, things that need to be signed. We should use less paper, but I think it possible we use more. The figures should be out there. At any rate, I can tell you from personal experience that paper is no longer suitable for technical fields in most cases. Some of the prints I use at work would have to be printed the size of a queen size bedsheet just to be legible enough to know where to aim the magnifying glass. Others are structured differently and then run into over a thousand pages. One I have to get into next week has 1,848 pages. While there is alot of text, some pages need to be magnified over 20 times to see on the screen. In either case, can you imagine that mess all over the place with paper ?

It's not that I really like this trend, but a trend it will be if it isn't already.

T

Dude- that is a glorified PDF screen.

...with copywrites that allow x number of readings before it deletes.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 8

RE: Paper ? - 12/11/2009 6:36:42 AM

Termyn8or

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That's what I was thinking Hunky. Just a bit more convenient for some I guess.

As far as limiting the number of reads, lots of things are possible in the PDF format. For example Ematter books can be read only on a computer with the proper registry key. They can also make it unprintable, or so they think. I can do a screen capture in almost any program.

As far as a time expiration, perhaps libraries will use that. No more late lees, but I don't see why they don't let you have it forever, unlike a paper book.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 9

RE: Paper ? - 12/11/2009 8:03:26 AM

LaTigresse

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I like books, regular dead tree books. I work for a printing company. Suffice to say I hope we never go completely paperless.

But I do use considerably less paper now, even to get a printing job done

, than ever before.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 10

RE: Paper ? - 12/11/2009 10:39:33 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
On the bookshelf- they cant cut my wire- and then I cant enjoy my books. Now can they?

The downside of books is that they burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit (refer to book/film). To truly protect your books you must become one and store it in your head, then before you die pass it on to someone younger who can then become that book.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 11

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 1:46:14 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Yes. I use less paper.

But that is because I dont have a functional printer.

Me too, i.e it is not connected to my computer and I do not have an - expensive - ink cartridge for it.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 12

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 8:06:39 AM

LaTigresse

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The cartridges on the printers I have at home tend to dry out long before I think to use them.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 13

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 8:34:37 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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From: S.E. London U.K.
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Cannon and Kodak have a good system where the ink tanks are separate from the print heads, so you can buy each colour individually and cheaply as it runs out/dries up.

HP is a bit of a con because the cartridges have this I.D. chip so the printer recognises the last three cartridges used and won't allow you to re-use them after the printer itself indentifies them as empty or defective. You can get around this by placing sticky tape over certain contacts on the cartridge itself (refer to internet) to blank out the printer memory of which cartridge numbers it has just used. Or you can keep three cartridges and cycle them.

The scope of this con and the expensiveness of HP ink means I'll never buy another HP printer as long as I live. For example cartridge numbers 15 and 45 are practically the same in cost (I think) but one is wildly more expensive due to ink economy because it goes in a printer that a business is likely to use and not a home user. They charge not for quantity of ink but what they think they’ll get away with.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 12/12/2009 8:45:49 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 14

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 9:13:52 AM

Termyn8or

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Interesting about the printer. When I got my first PC printing was the cat's ass. Wow this is cool. Then the novelty wore off and I didn't print anything for a few weeks. As per usual the printheads dried out. Then when I REALLY wanted to print something I couldn't.

Now you can buy a printer for fifty bucks, but I remember me dear ol Dad. He bought a dandy new printer and if I am not mistaken, the only thing it ever printed was the test page when he installed the software for it.

Ironically laser printers are recommended for people who print alot, but I bought one because I don't. I got a buddy who is a tatoo artist and most of what I've printed lately was for him, resized pictures to use for a tracing. A few other things. But if I don't print anything for a month, it will still work. The other day I got some data on the net, printing was out of the question of course and the choices were to put it on a memory stick/whatever, burn a CD or nothing. By the sheer volume of it printing was never an option.

However paper still has uses. In an official or professional venue there are alot of things that just must use paper. I don't want an electronic deed to my property, I want it on paper, additionally I want a hard copy downtown in case the house burns down. Having enough lumber in the attic to rebuild the house is simply not good enough. Contracts, anything that requires a signature. I don't think we are going to get out of that age soon. Go digital ? Sure, then with your thumbprint and the click of a mouse you can sign things when you are dead. My sinister is a notary public, and believe me, people want paper for certain things.

Even though a computer screen hurts my eyes if I look too much, paper is simply impractical for some things.

Looking at "paper" in a wider scope, as in printing but not necessarily on tree pulp based opaque, white media, is imperative in business for other reasons. The "blueprint" for the chip in your PC would take a football field to print large enough to see anything. The complexity boggles the mind. Yet it is printed on reasonable sized sheets, maybe the size of a master bedroom and reduced with lenses to expose the etchant/protectant used to form the layers of the chip. Reduced even further, you can't see shit, and several pages are required to make a chip. Repeated exposures and process' to make something smaller than a cassette tape. What's more the chip you see is mostly package. It has to be a certain size just to efficiently make the connections !

We are now getting into the age where something like that actually does not start on paper, as in "back to the drawing board". But some form of printing, some form of cellulose will always be needed. All in all though it is a good thing to reduce consumption. Two things give us oxygen on this planet, trees and seas. We are killing both. Perhaps we should slow down that process as much as possible no ?

To relate the increase of complexity, a long time ago a guy I worked with had a bunch of prints right on his bench. I bitched because they belong in the file cabinet and when I needed them I could not find them. He had a stack a couple feet high and there may have been a hundred of them. Now, that stack would only be one print. Now, just the info on my puny 160GB drive on my laptop at work on paper would take more square footage than EVERY shop at which I have ever worked in my life and then some. Paper is not only a waste of trees, it is a waste of precious real estate.

But then there are those certain things for which it is required.

T

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 15

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 11:20:17 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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I have no problem with HP printers, I always fill with cheap ink and a syringe, by far the cheapest method of filling cartridges, and I have no problems with the printer, kit being at the time, HP's cheapest inkjet. Now Epson I will keep away from, I have nothing but problems with those, due to the ink heads being seperate to the cartridge, they always block, not use a Epson for a while, and you have blocked print heads, that Epson say flush out with expensive ink, except it does'nt work, the heads stay blocked, the only method I ever found to unblock the heads, was to take the print cartridge head off, by taking the machine apart, and carfully soaking the relevant parts in warm water. I moved to HP, and had no problems in that respect from then on. If I dont fill the cartridges myself, I take them to a cartridge specialist, who flushes them out and fills them past what the manufacturers fill, and also tests them for printing quality, all very cheaply, approximately half the cost of genuine cartridges. Oh, and it is a local operation too,so supporting local business.

So, Epson, never again, they are a con, fine, good print quality, but at a cost, my first epson printer, bought from new and not cheaply at that, had no more than one ream of paper through it, before it ended up in the skip out of frustration, and to note, I don't give up on machines easily, they only get skipped, when I have failed in every possibility to repair it, and it is well beyond what manufacturers say is repairable. The problem with that machine appeared to be sparse use, I left cartridges in it for a a few months and didnt use it, the ink dried in the print heads, a new print head, half the cost of a new machine, so I gathered Epson, is one big scam, never again, I want stuff easily serviceable.

The problems I have with printing now, seems to be vista stuffing up from time to time and failing to control the printer.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 16

RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 11:50:24 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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I think you can get systems where the print heads can be replaced separately I know the Kodak printers utilise this idea. The problem with any all in one cartridge is that one colour is inherently likely to run out first so you are throwing away ink unless you refill.

Overfilling HP cartridges doesn’t work so if he tells you he is over filling them then he isn't because you need a certain negative pressure inside the tank to stop the ink from just flowing out and damaging the print jets etc. They incorporate this complex spring system which maintains just enough pressure that electrical charge at the print head causes the ink to heat up locally and expand into a jet of ink expelling it from the tank. If there isn't the resistance to ink constantly flowing out then it will congregate at the print head and any amount of heating isn't going to expel it into a jet. I read this online from a guy who took one apart and read the U.S. patent details.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 12/12/2009 11:52:00 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

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RE: Paper ? - 12/12/2009 2:13:54 PM

windchymes

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I realized today that we still use a ridiculous amount of paper in spite of our "technology". I was catching up on some mail that I had stacked up, and my car insurance carrier notified me that my premium had dropped for this year (yay!).....but it took them 4 pieces of paper to do so. One just had my name and address on it, and no, not to show through an envelope window, because the envelope was solid paper. No window. Two itemized the new fees and the last one was pretty much blank except for some bar-codey kinds of markings that meant nothing to me. All computer print-outs, yes. It took 4 pieces of paper to do the job that one or two could have done, the other two were totally superfluous.

I think this is the first time I ever used "superfluous" in a sentence, lol.

_____________________________

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Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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Post #: 18

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