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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/13/2009 2:23:59 PM   
YerGuardianDevil


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone who responded to my post.  I learned something from just about everybody.  Extra thanks to those who provided plain legal and/or objective advice to a simple legal question.  A bit less thanks to those who answered my legal question with moral questions of their own or simply provided presumptuous, derogatory commentary.  Those in the latter group appear to assume much about me while knowing very little.

A phrase which appeared more than once was "no rights under the law" which is silly hyperbole.  Assuming that she is a U.S. citizen who is not a felon, she would have exactly the same rights under the law as I do.  What I'm concerned about is making sure that nobody but me has rights to my assets because they are already mine.  Someone who has been screwed financially when a relationship didn't work out should understand better than anyone why I'd want to prevent the same thing from happening to me.  And nowhere have I said that I expect someone to give up every other aspect of her life for me and not have a job or a career or assets of her own.  One of the women with whom I've had "consideration" talks (to the critics: yes, there's been more than one) said she would insist that both partners sign a document stating that they had no intention of marrying and, in her words, "What's yours is yours and what's mine is mine."  That conversation is what prompted me to ask here if anyone has knowledge of such a document and has used it successfully.  Palimony doesn't apply in Illinois as far as I can tell, but thanks for making me aware that it even existed.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/13/2009 3:20:11 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		hhmm...wow...if I entered a relationship with the thought of "you're going to screw me over so screw you...you ain't getting anything of mine and I'll damn well make sure you never do!"...I don't think I'd ever wanna be in a relationship...but that's just me.

Sounds like it's doomed before it ever begins.


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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/13/2009 3:25:51 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		I believe it's called a prenup 

Zeph


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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/13/2009 4:08:22 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		FR-

Sometimes people have been so burned by a previous relationship that they want to guard everything in future relationships. The reality is that it depends on the people involved as to what the outcome will be. In a situation where the "master" wants to take control of all of the slaves assets and earnings, it would be foolish to not have some kind of plan should the relationship end. Sorry, but being the "almighty master" is not enough for anyone to have control of my assets and later on down the road should he decide he wants to trade me in for a new one, is going have all my stuff and leave me destitute. Not happening. Relationships where the people are planning on "just" cohabitating require both parties to make rational, equitable decisions about how their things will be distributed should the relationship fail.

As for the slave who said she wanted an agreement signed that marriage would never be sought and each would retain what they came into the relationship with, well that's fine, but you have to wonder....did she have all that many assets to protect? Having seen people who are so "protective" of their "assets" to the point where each pays their proportionate share of the children's shoes, these relationships eventually fail because they never put their whole self into it to begin with.

Zephyr,

Yep there are prenuptual agreements, but they are quite naturally only valid for those who will have nuptuals to begin with. To my knowledge, there isn't a standard "shacking up" equitable distribution contract. Basically what happens is that the worse the ending of the relationship, the more likely a fight over assets will occur.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/13/2009 6:03:31 PM   
SomethingCatchy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YerGuardianDevil

Those in the latter group appear to assume much about me while knowing very little.


Ok, so maybe I assumed that you have commitment issues, but you have to admit, your profile makes you look pretty pathetic. Everyone I've met that bases their lives off of other people's mistakes is lacking a great deal in some part of their lives.


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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 5:44:03 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YerGuardianDevil

Extra thanks to those who provided plain legal and/or objective advice to a simple legal question.


Despite smirking while I wrote it, I was completely serious about purchasing insurance.  

quote:

What I'm concerned about is making sure that nobody but me has rights to my assets because they are already mine.  Someone who has been screwed financially when a relationship didn't work out should understand better than anyone why I'd want to prevent the same thing from happening to me.


Yeah... that's just a sad thing to sit around worrying about. But if you really want to protect your assets 100%, I guess the way to do it is to not enter into a relationship. But it seems that you're not willing to take that obvious step. A relationship is apparently worth some asset-loss risk to you. 

quote:

And nowhere have I said that I expect someone to give up every other aspect of her life for me and not have a job or a career or assets of her own.


I thought it was pretty clear you weren't willing to expend much in the asset department.

quote:

One of the women with whom I've had "consideration" talks (to the critics: yes, there's been more than one) said she would insist that both partners sign a document stating that they had no intention of marrying and, in her words, "What's yours is yours and what's mine is mine."


Hmmm...just a hunch, but she's playing you and your obvious insecurity. To what end, I don't know. Common law marriage isn't recognized in Illinois. The chances of that changing are zero. Why are you worried about something that, given your current domicile, absolutely can't happen? And why do you and this woman think that, absent any commingling of your assets that some law fairy might come by some day and declare your assets joint? Is the obvious answer -  don't commingle your assets - just too easy for you? Don't buy shit together.

quote:

That conversation is what prompted me to ask here if anyone has knowledge of such a document and has used it successfully. 


Normally, I'm more sympathetic than I probably should be to people seeking legal guidance in internet forums. But in your case, if you're seriously worried about this stuff (and you do appear to be more worried than circumstances warrant), don't be such a cheap ass -- go hire a lawyer. You can't sue the internet if it gives you bad advice.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 6:15:39 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Eyesopened summed it up well. The only thing I would add is why not do a prenuptial agreement of sorts even if you are not actually getting married?

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 6:42:44 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What I'm concerned about is making sure that nobody but me has rights to my assets because they are already mine.

I think everybody has missed the substantive issue, and the larger perspective. Any person who engages in conduct which injures another person is exposed to civil tort liability. I.e., your assets are at risk by causing physical or psychological trauma to another person. You profile lists such activities, and you could be sued for engaging in activity as basic as spanking that bruises. The only reliable answer to your question is -- ABSTINANCE.

If you are genuinely concerned about losing all your assets, then don't engage in one of the most risky acts in the U.S. -- driving a vehicle. You might be one of 120 people to die today. Far more U.S. residents lose all their assets in automobile fatality than in palimony litigation. Oh yeah, are you burning up all your assets in cigarrette smoke? How about coronary artery disease from eating cholesterol laden meat?


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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 6:59:14 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

The only reliable answer to your question is -- ABSTINANCE.



Screw that abstinence deal. Heh.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 9:58:13 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..

Texas is one that recognizes common law with 2 primary requirements and a trip to the clerk to verify such..cohabitation of 6 months or more, and a outward declaration to others that your husband and wife. There is a form to fill out for this if you are "pushing" to be recognized as being common law married. If you don't do the paper work then nada.

In the eyes of everyone else around you? They tend to marry you whether you want it or not. Master just made some adjustments with the insurance stuff a week ago, and had the agent tell him several times..well then she's your wife..well then your married. The agent just wouldn't take no for an answer..:/

starshine


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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 3:09:54 PM   
HOUSEofSIRE


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/17/2009
Status: offline 		We live in Texas, and the subject of common law did come up as we were moving in togther because neither of us has any interest in ever getting married again, even though we intend to live together permanently.

This is my understanding from everything i read. Yes if you fall under all of the common law criteria the state can force you to legally get a divorce if you seperate. However i can not imagine any state official knocking on your door and telling you that you must do this. If you choose to simply serperate and not go to court there really isn't much they will do about it. I get the impression that it is really optional. For instance, if one of the people in the 'common law marriage' wants to take the other one for half of their stuff when they seperate then they can go to court and have the legal grounds to do so. Or if one of the parties should die without a will then the remaining person has the legal grounds to file for death benefits as a widow/widower or to keep other relatives from coming in and taking possession of all of their belongings or money simply because you were never legally married.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 3:11:57 PM   
HOUSEofSIRE


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned


In the eyes of everyone else around you? They tend to marry you whether you want it or not. Master just made some adjustments with the insurance stuff a week ago, and had the agent tell him several times..well then she's your wife..well then your married. The agent just wouldn't take no for an answer..:/

starshine



LOL, They did the same thing to my sister the first time she and her boyfriend filed their taxes together. They both signed the tax document and the accountant said "Congratulations, you're married."

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 3:19:30 PM   
HOUSEofSIRE


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/17/2009
Status: offline 		Growing up i saw my best friends parents split every household bill down the middle and each pay half out of their seperate bank accouts which they supported with money from their seperate jobs. I always found this interesting because they always had money. They never fought about money. The bills were always paid, and when she wanted to buy a new truck she didn't need to ask his permission because that was a personal purchase coming out of her personal account. As an adult i think this is even more brilliant.

This was just an after thought after reading all the posts about not comingling assets.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 3:31:36 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HOUSEofSIRE

Or if one of the parties should die without a will then the remaining person has the legal grounds to file for death benefits as a widow/widower or to keep other relatives from coming in and taking possession of all of their belongings or money simply because you were never legally married.


Filing such a document WOULD NOT give the person asking to be considered the spouse of the deceased the right to possession of ALL of the decedent's property, only the portion allowed by law to the spouse, which is NOT everything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HOUSEofSIRE

LOL, They did the same thing to my sister the first time she and her boyfriend filed their taxes together. They both signed the tax document and the accountant said "Congratulations, you're married."



Umarried people can not legally file taxes together. The accountant was completely correct. Since Texas recognizes common law marriage, your sister and her boyfriend just presented themselves as husband and wife by filing a joint tax return.


You are correct that if neither party goes to court, no one is going to come knocking at your door and tell you that you must file for divorce. It happens when the parting is very volitile. It happens when one party to the relationship wants to lay claim to the majority of the assets aquired during the relationship and leave the other with hardly a thing. It happens when people are greedy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Eyesopened summed it up well. The only thing I would add is why not do a prenuptial agreement of sorts even if you are not actually getting married?


If a couple signs a prenuptial agreement and never gets married, you might as well wipe your ass with that agreement, it is not valid.

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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 3:44:25 PM   
HisSub1213


Posts: 219
Joined: 11/3/2008
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In the State of Washington in order for a live in partner to have any kind of rights the couple needs to register as a "Domestic Partnership" with the state. That entitles either party to the same rights as a spouse.



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RE: How do 24/7 live-in LTRs avoid common law marriage? - 12/14/2009 5:54:45 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSub1213

~FR~

In the State of Washington in order for a live in partner to have any kind of rights the couple needs to register as a "Domestic Partnership" with the state. That entitles either party to the same rights as a spouse.




Within the City of Seattle, Domestic Partnership is available to anyone. Statewide in Washington, Domestic Partnership is available to homesexual couples and heterosexual and homosexual couples over the age of 62. NJ started with the same law, but then added "Civil Unions" which are for homosexual couples and left Domestic Partnership to only those over the age of 62.

In all states, Domestic Partnerships and Civil Unions are supposed to provide the same rights as marriage, but there are problems, which is why NJ is now getting ready to vote on gay marriage. Even with a Civil Union which is supposed to provide those rights, couples are denied the benefits of healthcare, visiting a sick partner are just a couple of the issues.


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