quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

And, I also want to add something needs to be done about Joe Lieberman because he’s blocking healthcare reform for the entire country, even though the overwhelming majority of Americans demand reform. It’s not acceptable that he has sold out to health insurance corporate profits; he and his wife are corporate whores.

Obama needs to make Lieberman pay a severe price for his obstruction; that includes the entire state of Connecticut being denied earmarks or whatever other federal money Connecticut receives. And it should be obvious Joe Lieberman should not be chairing any committees in the Senate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The American system achieves neither of those though, surely?
The French system is very good. A lot of the rest of Europe is very jealous of it, though by a few accounts I've heard*, the German one is better still.
Given how underfunded the NHS is, that one might be considered better still given how little it costs, though. Yes, there are fusses over ruinously expensive drugs not being supplied, but it still mostly works most of the time, despite the fact that it's had its funding cut in every budget for the last thirty years.

*(Mostly from Germans, who have an axe to grind on this, perhaps)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I agree with both of you, to an extent. The President's power to discipline a legislator is, and should be, limited. But in our system,  it's entirely appropriate for the party leadership to exact penalties on legislators who don't support the party on key issues.

In fact, that power is limited as well, and that's as it should be. But it's not at all out of line for party leaders to use committee assignments, etc. to reward or punish members for how they do their jobs. That's just politics. It's a tough business, and I very much look forward to the day the Democratic leadership decides they can finally afford to cut Lieberman's worthless balls off at high noon on the steps of the US Capitol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

When Terri Schiavo was about to have her plug pulled and the judges failed to stop it, some right wing wackos decreed that the judges ought to be subject to Congressional actions should Congress not be pleased.  That plan rightly created an outroar that helped unseat the conservative GOP.

The very idea of a President punishing a Senator for not voting his way violates the concept of three independent branches of government.  It's the responsibility of the Executive and Legislative branches to sell the other branch their ideas, not to beat the other one up if they don't buy in.  In theory, that leads to both branches working together.

Your bright idea would result in a completely dysfunctional system run on fear and hatred.  Learn to appreciate the strong points of the current system before you propose its destruction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I agree with both of you, to an extent. The President's power to discipline a legislator is, and should be, limited. But in our system,  it's entirely appropriate for the party leadership to exact penalties on legislators who don't support the party on key issues.

In fact, that power is limited as well, and that's as it should be. But it's not at all out of line for party leaders to use committee assignments, etc. to reward or punish members for how they do their jobs. That's just politics. It's a tough business, and I very much look forward to the day the Democratic leadership decides they can finally afford to cut Lieberman's worthless balls off at high noon on the steps of the US Capitol.

Probably only if the Dems pick up more seats in the Senate which is highly unlikely, dont you think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I agree with both of you, to an extent. The President's power to discipline a legislator is, and should be, limited. But in our system,  it's entirely appropriate for the party leadership to exact penalties on legislators who don't support the party on key issues.

In fact, that power is limited as well, and that's as it should be. But it's not at all out of line for party leaders to use committee assignments, etc. to reward or punish members for how they do their jobs. That's just politics. It's a tough business, and I very much look forward to the day the Democratic leadership decides they can finally afford to cut Lieberman's worthless balls off at high noon on the steps of the US Capitol.

Probably only if the Dems pick up more seats in the Senate which is highly unlikely, dont you think?

Yeah, I know. Probably not in my lifetime. But damn, just once before i kack I'd like to see the Dems grow a pair and play some fucking hardball.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The American system achieves neither of those though, surely?
The French system is very good. A lot of the rest of Europe is very jealous of it, though by a few accounts I've heard*, the German one is better still.
Given how underfunded the NHS is, that one might be considered better still given how little it costs, though. Yes, there are fusses over ruinously expensive drugs not being supplied, but it still mostly works most of the time, despite the fact that it's had its funding cut in every budget for the last thirty years.

*(Mostly from Germans, who have an axe to grind on this, perhaps)

I am curious to know how the NHS is funded. Is there any earmarked tax? The VAT? Income? Payroll? Or all lumped into a general budget? Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead



General budget. It's funded out of the tax revenue, which is mostly Income tax (these days most people's employers deduct it at source, so it's probably considered payroll tax). I don't think NI goes towards it as that's reserved for contribution based benefits, and the State pension, assuming that still exists when the people who are paying NI now hit retirement age, which looks increasingly unlikely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain



That's bull, George Bush and the Republicans do it all the time. How do you think Republicans continue to vote in a unified block all the time? Cripes, have you forgotten Tom DeLay? He was the nastiest SOB that ever worked in the Congress, wheeling and dealing all the time.

Obama had better do something about this cockroach, Lieberman, that's all I have to say otherwise people are going to be really pissed off with Lieberman AND Obama.

Medicare buy-in plan runs into resistance

Sen. Lieberman declares proposal a bad deal for taxpayers and the deficit

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34408699/ns/health-health_care/