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Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 9:11:08 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		In a provocative argument designed to rescue his foundering health care plan, President Barack Obama will warn Senate Democrats in a White House meeting Tuesday that this is the "last chance" to pass comprehensive reform.

Why?

What's the importance and why, for the second time, is there a "crisis" to pass something prior to the Holiday recess?

Appreciating the sense of desperation coming from the White House is passing a some Bill without having a clue to what it will cost, and how it will be funded a good idea? Why is consideration still pointing, at least by some to a 'solution' involving Medicare, which was a month ago sited as a source of major waste and fraud by this same administration and congress?

Those questions are easier to answer (special interest pay backs) than the big one - Why is this Administration and members of Congress afraid to leave and return to their constituents before passing a Bill just to "do something" lacking a clear understanding of what it will accomplish and what it will cost?

Edited - Because although it will accomplish 'shat' the intended word was 'what'. Thanks for pointing it out kittin

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/15/2009 9:17:08 AM >
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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 9:12:56 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

lacking a clear understanding of shat





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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 9:15:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

lacking a clear understanding of shat





That's not a typo it was a Freudian slip - that's what it will accomplish - other than payoffs for the campaign contributions made to those voting in favor.

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 9:33:22 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:


In a provocative argument designed to rescue his foundering health care plan, President Barack Obama


As Freudian slips go, then...founding is very different from floundering (assuming that's the word you meant).





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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 2:15:43 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ron Paul said the bill is "less worse"   but still bad.

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 2:39:39 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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What Obama said, and I tend to agree with it, is that if the congress recesses without the healthcare bill being passed, it is effectively dead. When they return the focus is going to be on jobs, and even more on the 2010 elections. If this bill dies on the vine, it's going to be a long time before any admininstration, seeing what happened to both Clinton and Obama when they tried to pass healthcare reform, decides to take the risk of trying it again.

So we are faced with two alternatives:

Pass a watered down, compromise health care legislation which at least puts a framework in place that can be worked on and made better or defeat it and let the healthcare spending in this country rise to the nearly 40% of GDP that is being forecast with people paying more and more money for less and less care until the system breaks entirely.

Another thing I agree with Obama on. We must not let the perfect become the enemy of the necessary.

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 2:40:36 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Well ,if Ron Paul said it...........

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 3:14:37 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

In a provocative argument designed to rescue his foundering health care plan, President Barack Obama
As Freudian slips go, then...founding is very different from floundering (assuming that's the word you meant).


That was a direct quote from the article published on that link at the time - you'll have to tell 'POLITICO' that their Freudian slip was showing.


quote:

seeing what happened to both Clinton and Obama when they tried to pass healthcare reform, decides to take the risk of trying it again.
Shouldn't that reference be expanded for accuracy to; "this form of a solution to health care"?

What were the goals again?
  • Safety net coverage for all
  • Eliminate Caps on coverage
  • Eliminate the pre existing exclusion


Are you confident those goals have been achieved through this Bill?

A current estimate calls for a price tag of $1 Trillion directed to 10% of the population, the 30,000,000 number claimed as being uninsured currently. Not to add one penny to the deficit and not a dollar in extra tax on those making less than $300k. I heard different, and lower, numbers but let that one stand. Are you confident that goal is realistic?

Under the program woman will have to debate and argue whether breast reconstruction surgery is necessary or 'cosmetic'. As a 'cosmetic' procedure you'll have to pay a 5% surcharge. You're Doctor will have to collect it for the government or be subject to prosecution penalty. You'll also incur the cosmetic versus treatment debate in the event of facial and dental reconstruction surgery in the event of any accident. Does an artificial limb really need to be flesh tone or let the metal show? Why go through the expense of a cosmetic glass eye when a patch can be a fashion statement? Since these are government driven policies how soon will the direct writers, for at least as long as they exist, follow suit?

The coverage itself isn't 'free' either. Many of those choosing to not buy coverage currently readily available to them, will be forced to either buy it, or (for now) pay a fine. Is that consistent with how this panacea solution was being represented during the campaign?

This should be the last chance for such a bad result. With any logic applied to this result more should hope it is.

Your two options are myopic. The other solution is to eliminate the ability for the insurance companies to cap and/or deny coverage and subsidize, based on income, every uninsured to buy their own coverage. QED!

So easy - but so unresponsive to the special interests who want this version, from this President and Congress, passed.

Were is good, or if it made sense to the constituents from their districts; the worry about the 2010 elections shouldn't be issue to finalize the vote until after the recess. It's only because the reality of it being so bad and so disconnected from the needs of the constituency that it is a problem. The fact that it is points to not only who this Bill serves, but who it doesn't.

Why you, or anyone, would support it for any other reason other that politics at this point, is beyond my ability to understand.

However all that said, and appreciation goes to my editors, at least responded to the topic. THANKS!

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 4:28:37 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Shouldn't that reference be expanded for accuracy to; "this form of a solution to health care"?

What were the goals again?

* Safety net coverage for all
* Eliminate Caps on coverage
* Eliminate the pre existing exclusion


ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



I believe it will do a whole lot more than basing an entire health care reform platform on tort reform. I think it will do a lot more than allowing the healthcare industry to go from it's present 20% of GDP to 40% of GDP.

As for why this is so unpopular, I would think the fact that the insurance companies have spent over half a billion dollars making it so, joined by such republican appeals to logic as "government death panels" might have something to do with it.

It is not politics that makes me support this bill. It is necessity. Only when a framework, no matter how flawed, is in place can we stop arguing over whether the government should, as they do in most civilized, industrialized countries, do something about the health care of it's citizens or whether we should just continue as we are now in a pattern that is unsustainable.


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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 4:42:37 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I believe it will do a whole lot more than basing an entire health care reform platform on tort reform. I think it will do a lot more than allowing the health-care industry to go from it's present 20% of GDP to 40% of GDP.


There is no substantiation to the assumption of health care becoming such a burden. In fact, with the government paying the bill it is MORE likely to happen than less likely. The government prints money, people would have to be able to support a private sector at the cost you point to as an absolute.

Ignoring that current practices of the legal industry do not contribute substantially to the pricing means you've been listening to the expensive propaganda saying it isn't so.

However, as much as it was fun to consider those two things; they do not provide an answer to any of the questions posed.

Is is current to summarize your position as "we have to do something!" regardless of the cost or if it addresses any of the goals originally intended?

The USA isn't and never felt it necessary to follow suit with other countries you consider "civilized". There is no equal platform from which to initiate a comparison. Were all other laws, one being the aforementioned 'tort laws', similar your argument would be valid. Picking one aspect, one affecting only 10% of the population at that, is self serving at best.

As is the position that the criticism is primarily a function of insurance company commercials. Only those in favor of the Bill have TIVO and don't watch? Or does the opposition do the same with the similarly funded pro-health care infomercials? You position regarding the majority public position against the current health care bill is that the only ones thinking correctly and for themselves are the Democratic Senators who need to get this passed before recess and those that agree with them? Really?

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/15/2009 6:48:59 PM   
Brain


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Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		They should hold their nose so as not to smell the putrid odor of this bill and pass it because it has some things like exchanges and pre-existing conditions denial, and stopping rescissions but it does little on the cost side - it does little to keep down costs; but everyone who has been uncooperative needs to be purged from the Democratic Party and from politics permanently prior to and during the next elections.

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RE: Obama "Last Chance To Pass Health-Care" - 12/16/2009 11:35:59 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:


In a provocative argument designed to rescue his foundering health care plan, President Barack Obama


As Freudian slips go, then...founding is very different from floundering (assuming that's the word you meant).







and foundering is very different than founding, and foundering is a very apt description of the health care plan:

1. To sink below the surface of the water: The ship struck a reef and foundered.
2. To cave in; sink: The platform swayed and then foundered.
3. To fail utterly; collapse: a marriage that soon foundered.

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