Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill”

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Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 3:04:28 PM

FatDomDaddy

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Where does this leave it?

Is it still the Republican's fault that with SIXTY Senators the Democrats cannot pass a health care bill?

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/howard-dean-kill-the-senate-bill/

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 3:34:11 PM

Mercnbeth

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Win some (Lieberman) - Lose Some (Burris - Obama's Seat Filler)

The backlash has begun. Senator Roland W. Burris, Democrat of Illinois, has vowed that he will not vote for a health care bill that does not include a government-run insurance plan, or public option.

And on Monday, after Democrats indicated that they were prepared to meet the demands of Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, and strip the last vestige of a public option from their bill, Mr. Burris went to the Senate floor to warn that he had not committed to vote for the legislation.

With a dramatic flourish, Mr. Burris said: "As Mohandas Gandhi once famously said, -'All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender.'"

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 4:21:53 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Win some (Lieberman) - Lose Some (Burris - Obama's Seat Filler)

The backlash has begun. Senator Roland W. Burris, Democrat of Illinois, has vowed that he will not vote for a health care bill that does not include a government-run insurance plan, or public option.

And on Monday, after Democrats indicated that they were prepared to meet the demands of Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, and strip the last vestige of a public option from their bill, Mr. Burris went to the Senate floor to warn that he had not committed to vote for the legislation.

With a dramatic flourish, Mr. Burris said: "As Mohandas Gandhi once famously said, -'All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender.'"

Win some (the insurance companies, the repbulicans) lose some (the American people)

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 4:50:14 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Win some (the insurance companies, the repbulicans) lose some (the American people)

Hold on to that hope despite the polls, despite the Democratic leadership fearing the repercussions of the Senators leaving without passing the Bill and going home to their disenfranchised constituents.

I hope you are correct though and more will vote out each and every incumbent. Hey - it's the season for hope!

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 5:00:21 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Hold on to that hope despite the polls, despite the Democratic leadership fearing the repercussions of the Senators leaving without passing the Bill and going home to their disenfranchised constituents.

I hope you are correct though and more will vote out each and every incumbent. Hey - it's the season for hope!

Hey, I lost a lot of hope when I saw that they weren't going to do the sensible thing: A single payer program where the private insurance companies could bill to administrate it.

As it is, we are in a lose lose situation. While I do not consider this current bill good, I certainly consider it the lesser of evils.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 5:12:00 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

While I do not consider this current bill good, I certainly consider it the lesser of evils.

What evil?

I see two currently in place; cap on benefits, pre-existing exclusion.

My guess, I don't want to assume, for a third you would add cost.

The cost within this Bill to solve the first two problems is unjustified and, without seeing the details, may not accomplish that goal as people expect. Based upon the 'cosmetic' surgery tax provision, I'd suspect that the existing hard cap on dollars may get replaced by a soft cap based upon the moving perspective definition of "essential".

On the cost side, $1 Trillion could pay for a lot of direct premiums for the currently uninsured. However, the currently uninsured will not longer have a choice - pay or be fined. Or they will be counter incentive to make more than the billing threshold income. How many employers will use the opportunity? "I'll pay you only $X. because that way - you'll qualify for 'free' government health insurance."

Sure - I'm the first businessman who had that thought....

Wouldn't a program requiring ALL businesses to offer and pay for coverage have achieved the same goal but without the bureaucracy and expense of this Bill?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/15/2009 5:17:37 PM >

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 5:15:23 PM

shannie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The backlash has begun. Senator Roland W. Burris, Democrat of Illinois, has vowed that he will not vote for a health care bill that does not include a government-run insurance plan, or public option.

You mean the fake backlash? It's like watching pro wresting.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 5:20:36 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The backlash has begun. Senator Roland W. Burris, Democrat of Illinois, has vowed that he will not vote for a health care bill that does not include a government-run insurance plan, or public option.

You mean the fake backlash? It's like watching pro wresting.

The NY TIMES, the quoted source, called it backlash. I call it fun to watch - so yeah very similar to pro wresting. Those wrestling don't get hurt. In this case it's the audience, and the economy being subjected to a 'strangle hold'.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 6:08:47 PM

Brain

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Everything is the Republicans' fault because they are uncooperative and disagree about everything. They are only interested in helping the rich get richer. They are only interested in protecting corporations and protecting the wealthy. Republicans do not care about the middle class or the poor. Most Republicans worship money more than God. I do not like the Republican party and I hope it becomes extinct in the future.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 6:24:23 PM

tazzygirl

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Brain, the blame lays equally on the Democrats and Independents. Actually, more with the voters than anyone else. We allowed this to happen.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 6:24:52 PM

Brain

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Unfortunately, Congressmen and Senators should hold their noses in order not to smell the odious stink and pass this putrid bill and ramp up for the next elections where all of these senators and congressmen, particularly the uncooperative and corrupt Democrats, must be purged forever from politics: Joe Lieberman-Connecticut, Blanche Lincoln-Arkansas, Ben Nelson-Nebraska, Mary Landrieu-Louisiana, Bill Nelson-Florida and Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins from the state of Maine - they also need to be purged from the political process in order to purify the Northeast.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 7:20:53 PM

FatDomDaddy

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Brian... why are they trying to get Repubicans???

The Democrats have SIXTY Senators! They do NOT NEED ANY Republicans.

Why would you want this albatross around your neck? You want pass it just to pass it? To what end? It has nothing the Left actually wants.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 7:22:32 PM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Unfortunately, Congressmen and Senators should hold their noses in order not to smell the odious stink and pass this putrid bill and ramp up for the next elections where all of these senators and congressmen, particularly the uncooperative and corrupt Democrats, must be purged forever from politics: Joe Lieberman-Connecticut, Blanche Lincoln-Arkansas, Ben Nelson-Nebraska, Mary Landrieu-Louisiana, Bill Nelson-Florida and Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins from the state of Maine - they also need to be purged from the political process in order to purify the Northeast.

Didn't you just say it was all the Republicans fault?

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 7:23:39 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

As it is, we are in a lose lose situation. While I do not consider this current bill good, I certainly consider it the lesser of evils.

Now Spinner... you know there is no such thing. In fact... when one chose's the lesser, they soon realize in many ways its just as great

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 7:25:54 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Unfortunately, Congressmen and Senators should hold their noses in order not to smell the odious stink and pass this putrid bill and ramp up for the next elections where all of these senators and congressmen, particularly the uncooperative and corrupt Democrats, must be purged forever from politics: Joe Lieberman-Connecticut, Blanche Lincoln-Arkansas, Ben Nelson-Nebraska, Mary Landrieu-Louisiana, Bill Nelson-Florida and Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins from the state of Maine - they also need to be purged from the political process in order to purify the Northeast.

If you really believe this, you should be against this bill too.

At least no one will accuse Howard Dean of not having a backbone!

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 8:02:50 PM

Brain

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Republicans are 100% corrupt. And Democrats are 65% corrupt as per Robert Kennedy Junior. Democrats are trying to get Republicans because that party is 65% corrupt. I actually think if it wasn't Joe Lieberman it would be somebody else like Ben Nelson in Nebraska or Bill Nelson in Florida or Blanche Lincoln in Arkansas or Mary Landrieu in Louisiana; you get the idea by now I think.

It's not an albatross, Republicans like you know that if Democrats pass this bill inclusive of a public option reelection prospects of Democrats will be assured in the future because Democrats can show they can get results.

In Canada healthcare is 89% popular as per the Yahoo poll I posted on another thread. Similarly, Social Security is so popular in the United States, I believe it's referred to, oh what is it now, the third rail of American politics, if anybody suggests tampering with it because the American people would not like it.

So what I'm saying is, I think if health care reform is successful Republicans know Democratic electoral prospects in the future will be looking up. So that's why Republicans are uncooperative and that's why you're trying to fool me by describing this bill as an albatross, which it is not; quite the opposite!

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 8:05:24 PM

Brain

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Just because it's all Republican's fault doesn't mean I can't blame Democrats too; I can have fun with math just like anybody else.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 8:07:13 PM

subrob1967

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According to a Senate aide, the White House is now threatening to put Nebraska's Offutt Air Force Base on the BRAC list if Nelson doesn't fall into line.

How low can you go? It's only our Strategic Air Command base after all.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 8:07:31 PM

Brain

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I will swallow this horsemeat for now until in the future when I will eat steak.

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RE: Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill” - 12/15/2009 8:14:25 PM

Brain

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Usually I try to be humble but I have to give Spinner and myself a little credit; I think the two of us are little too politically sophisticated to fall for these Republican snow jobs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

As it is, we are in a lose lose situation. While I do not consider this current bill good, I certainly consider it the lesser of evils.

Now Spinner... you know there is no such thing. In fact... when one chose's the lesser, they soon realize in many ways its just as great