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vincentML -> The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 9:12:53 AM)

Christian Group Launches New Attack on Christmas Commercialism

The following quote from the article:

A movement like the Advent Conspiracy is countercultural on two fronts - not just fighting the secular idea that Christmas is a month-long shopping and decorating ritual, but the powerful conservative notion that the holiday requires acknowledgement from the nation's retailers to be truly meaningful. It's not easy, says one youth pastor whose church is part of the Advent Conspiracy. "When you start jacking with people's idea of what Christmas is and you start to go against this $450 billion machine of materialism and consumerism, it really messes with people," he explains. "It takes a lot of patience to say there's a different way - Christmas doesn't have to be like this."

Are aware of this movement and do you agree or disagree with its goals? Just wondering.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 9:35:14 AM)

I'm not religious, I don't see the big fuss if everyone decides to set aside the same time of year for spending money/time on a loved one.

Besides which it is good for the economy and creates jobs bla bla etc.

If people want to get into the spirit of Christmas (ignoring the pagan origins) then they should hire a donkey, rent out a barn and spend the night in it with various other farm animals. When did Jesus start eating Turkey? It is all tradition and some of this tradition includes the idea of giving gifts, no big deal.



mnottertail -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 9:42:13 AM)

and they should probably do it around February, or at least swap with the easter bunny, which would be more the time Yeshua Ha Notzri actually was born and do like a labor day weekend for halloween sorta stuff which would have been when he actually cakked, based on evidence gleaned from the bible, and the real life of Yeshua Ha Notzri known in the Talmud and Midrash.



Kirata -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 9:59:00 AM)


Christmas is a religious holiday for Christians, and the "Advent Conspiracy" is a movement that urges congregants of Christian churches, "to spend less on presents for friends and family, and to consider donating some of the money they saved as a result" (same article).

In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.

K.




kittinSol -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 10:01:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.



Or, how redistribution of wealth is actually something that Jesus would have liked to see [8D] .



StrangerThan -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 10:11:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.



Or, how redistribution of wealth is actually something that Jesus would have liked to see [8D] .


That statement is so.. distinctly skewed that it is difficult to formulate a reply that doesn't require therapy for you kittin.

Also quite obvious most who are replying are doing the knee jerk thing and not reading the article in the first place.



kittinSol -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 10:14:30 AM)

StrangerThan, or the importance of being earnest.



Kirata -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 10:15:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

StrangerThan, or the importance of being earnest.

I loved that play!! Hilarious movie, too!

K.




kittinSol -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 10:19:15 AM)

Oscar Wilde = fabulous.



Aneirin -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 12:36:46 PM)

xmas is yet another event where we are not in the spirit of things, if we don't spend money. I met with someone tonight who, for her xmas is a time of great stress and self hate, because she can't give her kids what they would like, because she doesn't have the money, she thinks, because of this, she is a failure to her kids.

Xmas cheer is not something with the people I know, the skint, hand to mouth class who have nothing.



Navina -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 12:48:46 PM)

I've been aware of this group for awhile now and I completely agree with what they're doing. I think it's a good idea.



Hierodule -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 12:51:33 PM)

I think its utterly ridiculous when Christians say "Jesus is the reason for the Season" and then participate in all the ancient pagan traditions like decorating an evergreen, hanging mistletoe, and decorating their house in red and green. Jesus is not the reason for the season. The winter solstice is the reason for the season. If you want to co-opt  "the birthday of the unconquered Sun”  and make it about your savior I have no problem with that. But if you do then you shouldn't be surprised when others celebrate it, or not celebrate it as they please. Its a secular holiday now. Deal with it.



mcbride -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 12:56:03 PM)


It's brilliant, and much-needed. What's to oppose?



mnottertail -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 12:56:54 PM)

I gave up jesus for lent, didn't see anything countermanding the practice in the handbook, and just never took it up again, after that.



CarrieO -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 1:19:21 PM)

Interesting article.  While I've not heard of the organization, I can appreciate the idea of spending less on presents and instead choosing to donate the money for a worthy cause.  An idea that doesn't require a belief in christianity.
It reminds me of all the simple and frugal living talk I hear so much nowadays. 

There are loads of ways to donate time and/or money... Habitat for Humanity, Heifer International or your local food bank just to name a few. 

If someone decides to donate their time to building a house for a family in need instead of buying a new gadget or gizmo...does it really matter why and what religion was behind their reason for doing it?

edited for spelling



Moonhead -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 1:22:37 PM)

It's a nice idea, and one that would be well worth applying. Probably won't do terribly well, though.



vincentML -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 1:57:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.



Or, how redistribution of wealth is actually something that Jesus would have liked to see [8D] .


kittenSol; I take your comment was tongue in cheek or a little snarky but it may be you are correct and that is what Jesus had in mind... redistribution of wealth and assistance to the poor. Look at these attributions:

Matthew 5:43-48 (New International Version)
“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?" From the Sermon on the Mount. So what is all this giving gifts to your loved ones? What's the reward in that? Would it not be better to give to a poor stranger?

And this instruction to give to the poor:

Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

And this rather blunt directive to the rich young man:

Mark 10:17-31 (New International Version)
The Rich Young Man
21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Don't you wonder with all this ostentatious gift exchange and partying and barrage of commercials that Christmas time has lost the real message Jesus was teaching? I agree with the arguments that we gain much commercial good from it all. I would not wish to see people lose jobs. But those who really want to put Christ back in Christmas perhaps could pay a bit more attention to his message of redistribution of wealth and charity for the poor.

Myself, a non-believer, I will be sending a gift to Doctors Without Borders. You are welcome to join me, or not. This is not a solicitation. I have no affiliation with any charity group. Just offering some observations about the zeitgeist of this season.

Vincent







Hierodule -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 3:03:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentM

Don't you wonder with all this ostentatious gift exchange and partying and barrage of commercials that Christmas time has lost the real message Jesus was teaching? I agree with the arguments that we gain much commercial good from it all. I would not wish to see people lose jobs. But those who really want to put Christ back in Christmas perhaps could pay a bit more attention to his message of redistribution of wealth and charity for the poor.

I agree with you to some extent, but the thing is "Christ" never belonged in "Christmas" to begin with. They co-opted the Holiday as yet another way to make the religion palatable for the Romans, and later, other Europeans. Jesus has nothing to do with the gift-giving-tree-decorating-feasting Holiday that we celebrate. If we want to get back to the "true meaning" of "Christmas" we should forget about Jesus and just have wild orgies, bonfires, extravagant feasts and gift exchanges.

I do agree that any Christian who wants to make the holiday about Jesus ,should  drop ALL the pagan trappings, the trees, the meals, all gifts, the holly,and Santa. And give all the money that they normally spend on that stuff to charity. That is what Jesus would have wanted (if he ever existed. I'm not sure.)

However, the holidays have nothing to do with Jesus to me so I feel just fine eating, drinking, giving and being merry. We made it through another year and the days are about to get longer! WHOOOOO HOOOOO!  PARTY!!!!

ETA: That is the TRUE meaning of the season. No matter what Christians say



LadyEllen -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 3:20:24 PM)

My principle issue with Christmas is the "good will to all men" bit that is apparently promoted for a few days having replaced its utter opposite for the preceding year and being replaced by that opposite again shortly thereafter for the year following. I see no reason whatever why it should not be "good will to all" throughout the year if we can manage it for a few days and every reason in fact to so maintain such an attitude. Whilst it may have originated as a pagan prohibition on violence and vengeance and so on for the festival, it is plain we have moved on from that origin.

And apart from that it is what it is. If I wish to be free to celebrate my understanding of the festival then it must be for others to do the same according to their preferences. There is far too much commercialism, far too much pressure to participate in that commercialism and far too much drinking and eating when it is plain we no longer require such feasting when we have year round abundance. And as for the appearance on my television of sanctimonious "Christian" religiosity every year, I'd best say as little as possible.

E




defiantbadgirl -> RE: The Advent Conspiracy (12/16/2009 4:05:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

If people want to get into the spirit of Christmas (ignoring the pagan origins) then they should hire a donkey, rent out a barn and spend the night in it with various other farm animals.


LMAO



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