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Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AND Jo... - 12/16/2009 5:24:33 PM   
Brain


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If Obama and the Democrats wanted real health care reform they would use reconciliation. This is Obama's deception, trying to pretend that they need 60 votes and that they need Joe Lieberman, when they don't. They can use reconciliation just as Republicans used reconciliation to get through George Bushes' tax cuts. I agree with Howard Dean and not Mary Landrieu, Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman. I think when Robert Kennedy Jr. says the Republicans are 100% corrupt and Democrats are 65% corrupt, he' s right.

Michael Kieschnick: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform

And what should take the place of Lieberman's rules? Reid already has the power -- contained in this year's budget resolution -- to enact much of the health care reform through budget reconciliation, which requires 51 votes. There are 51 votes for the best -- not the worst -- elements of great health reform. Or the Senate could change it's own rules to eliminate or alter the filibuster. Any reading of Senate history makes it clear that the filibuster has been used most often to defeat progress, not to stop special interests or reactionary initiatives.

And if Sen. Reid will not use reconciliation or change the filibuster rules, then at a minimum he should hold a series of individual votes on the critical issues currently bundled together in the massive reform bill. If he were to ask for my advice, I would start with a prohibition on discrimination based on pre-existing conditions. Let's put everybody on record whether they are in favor of the current practice of vicious discrimination.

Health care matters far too much to let rules designed to stop change block us. And it is cynical beyond measure to call Lieberman's demands real reform.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-kieschnick/ignore-lieberman-to-win-r_b_394479.html


Joe Lieberman must go

Actions must have consequences. Any senator who filibusters the public option does not deserve a chairmanship and should be removed from his or her post.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/joe_lieberman_po/?rc=fb_share1

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/16/2009 5:33:30 PM   
servantforuse


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You need to come up for air once and a while. Take a deep breath, relax a little..

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/16/2009 7:11:58 PM   
DomImus


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Brain, you are a classic example of why we have a representative government instead of mob rule. You need to step away and catch your breath.

As far as Joe is concerned I haven't seen much press that the people who sent him back to the Senate as an Independent want to have him recalled. Filibuster is in the Constitution, like it or not. The Democrats failed. They did not produce 60 guaranteed votes in the Senate at the last election even after they were awarded Stuart Smalley. It's just too bad for you that Nancy Pelosi's ramrod (the image of her with a strap on is scary) tactics do not fly in the Senate.

A Kennedy calling anyone else corrupt - man, that's a hoot. Thanks for the laugh.




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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/16/2009 10:31:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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And in another thread you talk about filibuster's potential to backfire. If the Dems use reconciliation its a guarantee that they lose both houses in 2010 and whatever they pass now will be repealed before it does much damage.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 1:19:41 PM   
Brain


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I want this bill killed. I want them to use reconciliation and allow everyone to use Medicare if they wish no matter what your age is; and I want Howard Dean to run against Joe Lieberman in the state of Connecticut for Senator, which is exactly what you guys don't want. New Hampshire and Connecticut are in the neighborhood so I don't see a problem with Howard Dean running in that state, especially after the Republicans flew in that Keyes wing nut to run in the state of Illinois.

And I would like to find out if Obama is a sellout or not because I think if they pass a reconciled bill with things progressives really want, Obama will veto it and we will find out that he is really a sellout. Obama sold out to the drug companies and wants to sellout to the health insurance too.

Another thing, you want this bill killed don't you? Or maybe you want to keep it because you know it really sucks because Lieberman is okay with it.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 1:24:42 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I want this bill killed. I want them to use reconciliation and allow everyone to use Medicare if they wish no matter what your age is; and I want Howard Dean to run against Joe Lieberman in the state of Connecticut for Senator, which is exactly what you guys don't want. New Hampshire and Connecticut are in the neighborhood so I don't see a problem with Howard Dean running in that state, especially after the Republicans flew in that Keyes wing nut to run in the state of Illinois.

And I would like to find out if Obama is a sellout or not because I think if they pass a reconciled bill with things progressives really want, Obama will veto it and we will find out that he is really a sellout. Obama sold out to the drug companies and wants to sellout to the health insurance too.

Another thing, you want this bill killed don't you? Or maybe you want to keep it because you know it really sucks because Lieberman is okay with it.


Of course I want it killed...I would like the US to survive economically and for the health care system to not be destroyed. The primary benefit of Lieberman's actions is to lessen the immediate financial impact so whatever disaster is rammed down the US' throats can be repealed before it does too muchdamage.

Dean would have no chance against Lieberman.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 1:56:53 PM   
Brain


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Howard would destroy the weasel and as far as financial impact is concerned what you're really talking about is the financial impact on your insurance company friends; I'm talking about the ridiculous profits they make.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 2:21:13 PM   
luckydawg


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I don't think Brain the "certified economist" understands that tens of millions of Americans 401k's and other sorts of mutual funds are invested in insurance and medical stocks. And what destroying them would do, to individuals and the economy as a whole.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 2:35:48 PM   
tnai


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quote:

Howard would destroy the weasel...


How are you coming to that conclusion? Has someone run a poll or anything or that just your two cents? Not saying you are wrong or right but what evidence are you basing this conclusion on?

< Message edited by tnai -- 12/17/2009 2:36:39 PM >

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 2:42:05 PM   
LiveFreeAndSpank


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Has nothing to do with Lieberman. Has all to do with Democrats trying
to run everyone's life. Read 1984. Sci-Fi coming to life.


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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 3:41:01 PM   
Brain


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I’m not in a Christmasy mood these days, especially when a lot of Americans don’t have health care, so it wouldn’t bother me to see her hit by a tomato.

Tomatoes removed to save Sarah Palin from pelting

Costco customer Helen Rappaport told The Salt Lake Tribune that she couldn't find tomatoes at a warehouse in Salt Lake City last week because, the manager told her, they were taken off shelves while Sarah Palin visited during her book tour.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seattleshopping/2010526688_costco_removed_tomatoes_from_s.htm l

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 3:44:04 PM   
Fellow


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I thought Mr. Dean made quite convincing case that the bill is basically a pile of shit, reforms nothing and will cost lot of money. Who wants to pass it?

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 3:47:12 PM   
Brain


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Health insurance stocks would go down but that's really a problem with Wall Street. Wall Street did more to destroy the economy and stock value than healthcare reform, what you said is lame to try to prevent healthcare reform.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 5:58:19 PM   
servantforuse


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It would hurt Wall Street ? When companies go out of business, investors lose money and they are hurt, not Wall street. Stocks and Bonds are traded there, thats all.

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 6:06:15 PM   
servantforuse


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Brain, I would be interested in knowing just where you invest your own 401 plan or other retirement savings ? It is evident that you hate corporations. Where do you invest ? Just curious..

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 6:25:11 PM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

I don't think Brain the "certified economist" understands that tens of millions of Americans 401k's and other sorts of mutual funds are invested in insurance and medical stocks. And what destroying them would do, to individuals and the economy as a whole.


Yes:  "We have our retirement funds tied up in these corrupt entities, so we have to endorse being enslaved and/or robbed by them." 

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 6:38:25 PM   
servantforuse


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Why would you invest in a company that is robbing you ? You might need a new financial planner..

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 8:37:42 PM   
luckydawg


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enslaved and/or robbed......

Well I am glad we aren't going nuts with wild rhetoric on this subject......

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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/17/2009 9:06:57 PM   
Brain


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Obviously I'm not Warren Buffet and I don’t think anybody is as good as he appears to be, I’m not saying he’s Bernie Madoff , I’m just saying there’s something fishy about Buffet. The truth is unless you have inside information I think it's very difficult to predict the future. I’d really like to know how Buffet knew to invest in Goldman Sachs, but I digress.

Getting back to your question, from what I’ve learned over the years, the best thing to do when investing is to diversify. By diversifying you can minimize your risk. People should not have all their investments in health insurance companies because if healthcare reform really happens, and I’m talking about real reform which contains costs, that’s bad for health insurance companies. So the first thing to do, in my opinion, is to diversify.

Secondly, I think it’s true these companies, and I’m thinking of mutual funds people invest into, these funds charge significant fees. Usually the benefit you get from their expertise is offset by the cost or fees; so I’m not keen about mutual funds either.

My view is you can do as well as mutual funds but avoid the fees by buying index funds and diversifying your investments. The other thing that’s important is to avoid crashes. So based on research other people have done that I read, I think the best thing to do is buy stocks in November after a decline in value which usually begins by people selling stocks to realize tax losses before year-end. Actually I read is you can make 10 times more money if you buy in November and sell in April then you can if you hold the stock for the whole year.

What happens is people have lost money investing in particular companies and they would like to deduct those losses on the following years income taxes and that usually happens at the end of the year, and since people like to start early they start selling stocks in October; that’s my opinion anyway and I think I’m right.

So buy stocks in November when prices are lower and then the other thing you have to do is sell in April when prices are high. Usually not much happens over the summer with up-and-down fluctuations and then the other reason to sell in April is of course you avoid getting anywhere near the month of October.

This is a pretty long answer to a ‘simple’ question and I almost forgot one other thing; these stock market companies or brokerage firms that sell stocks. And I’m thinking of a company like Merrill Lynch, who say they are bullish on America remembering their advertising; these companies don’t recommend stocks to people necessarily because they think they are good investments.

What’s happening is that banks are telling the brokerage firms to sell stocks in companies that banks own. Brokerage firms then tell their salespeople to push these companies. So when they have an IPO, for example, and you hear about how one of these big investment banks underwrites the IPO then they get the stockbroker firm salespeople to recommend the IPO company not because it’s a good investment but because it’s good for the bank for people to buy it, since the bank invested a lot of money getting the company listed on the market.

I don’t understand the whole process very well because I’ve never worked for a stockbroker but I thought about changing careers. Maybe somebody on here is a stockbroker and they can explain how banks are telling stock brokerage firms to get stockbroker salespeople to recommend stocks in certain companies to the public better than I can.

For me, the bottom line is I don’t trust stock brokerage firms because their salespeople push stocks banks tell the stockbroker to sell. And I don’t trust guys like Bernie Made off
or that other guy from Texas who burned people for about $1 billion. There’s just too many crooks that have set up investment companies and people who don’t know anything about investing go to them and trust them with their money.

And the crooks disappear somewhere with other people’s money or it‘s a Ponzi scheme or some other bad news story; for me it‘s just too risky, I don‘t trust my mother these days and when it comes to money don‘t trust anybody. Fortunately, a lot of crooks are getting caught now and going to jail but people are not getting money back.

Feds arrest 26 in $61 million Medicare fraud
Doctors, nurses among those accused in Miami, Brooklyn and Detroit
Federal agents arrest 26 suspects in three states, including a doctor and nurses, in a major crackdown on Medicare fraud totaling $61 million in separate scams.

Get them All!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34437085/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

So the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to buy index funds and diversify your investments. Or, get a balanced mutual fund that invests in real estate and bonds and GICs/interest and stocks and also in stocks of other countries, whether it’s China or Japan or South America or Europe: and diversify, diversify, diversify.


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Brain, I would be interested in knowing just where you invest your own 401 plan or other retirement savings ? It is evident that you hate corporations. Where do you invest ? Just curious..


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RE: Ignore Lieberman to Win Real Health Care Reform AN... - 12/18/2009 3:04:07 AM   
Brain


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For one thing, 67% of the people of/in Connecticut want a public option and for another Howard is not naïve like Ned Lamont to take a picture with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton: that's why Ned lost, when I saw that pic I knew it would hurt Lamont; Connecticut does not want
NYC ( Tawana Brawley rape allegations ) shit politics in their state.

Willbeur didn't see the video on TV of that picture being taken and all camera lightbulbs flashing otherwise he wouldn't say, "Dean would have no chance against Lieberman. "

Ned Lamont would be the senator from Connecticut NOW if not for that picture. With all the BULLSHIT Joe Loserman has done since, NOW Lieberman could not win an election to be a dog catcher!

quote:

ORIGINAL: tnai

quote:

Howard would destroy the weasel...


How are you coming to that conclusion? Has someone run a poll or anything or that just your two cents? Not saying you are wrong or right but what evidence are you basing this conclusion on?


(in reply to tnai)
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