quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes?

"Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!"

Firm

This is a simple fact of life.  There is only so much buffering capability in the ocean - add enough CO2 and it'll acidify.  Similar things can happen with our bodies due to various illnesses and disorders (though using a different buffering system) - and it's well known in biology that living things require very tight control of pH to maintain life.  So after a certain point, the organisms listed won't be able to cope.  Gods help us if plankton starts dying off - the bottom of the food chain would go. 

Not too long ago, a lot of folks thought that excess atmospheric CO2 would be absorbed in the ocean indefinitely.  Now we're seeing the limits of that mechanism.

thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes?

"Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!"

Firm

About 15 years ago when a lot of welfare money began drying up for "alchoholism" and "drug addiction" (alone) and also SSDI all the drunks and druggies "came down" with any number of of maladies to add to their addictions so that they'd "qualify" for welfare and SSDI. "Bi-Polar" was a biggie.
The warming religion is no differant.
Does anyone think they'll be cast out of their high-paying, cushy office jobs with full benefits where they're accountable to no-one without a "fight?"
This is like when the cops are questioning a suspect and he starts changing his story on t.v. "Well,.....(maybe) "global warming" (isn't) caused by man but look at the ACID OCEANS!"
They try to change the subject like saying that the e-mails that exposed them were,....."stolen!"
Those people will have to be dragged out fingernails scratching! "But, but,...I wouldn't know HOW to actually "W-O-R-K" for a living! "We haven't been trained for that!" "We have *"Advanced Degrees"* for God's sake we shouldn't have to p,p,..."produce" anything!"
It's like that Colllege "Perfessor" in Colorado, Ward "TONTO" Churchill being all "respectable" when first contacted by the Press but things got really ugly with him when it came out about him forging paintings and that he really wasn't an "American Indian" just a not particularly good looking person of English heratage.
He started slamming doors in reporter's faces, giving them the finger, being really mean and nasty, the actions of a person who knows that they've been caught.
I think we can expext to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the comming weeks and months as more and more people in the press realize that they've been lied to for a very long time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes?

"Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!"

Firm

This is a simple fact of life.  There is only so much buffering capability in the ocean - add enough CO2 and it'll acidify.  Similar things can happen with our bodies due to various illnesses and disorders (though using a different buffering system) - and it's well known in biology that living things require very tight control of pH to maintain life.  So after a certain point, the organisms listed won't be able to cope.  Gods help us if plankton starts dying off - the bottom of the food chain would go. 

Not too long ago, a lot of folks thought that excess atmospheric CO2 would be absorbed in the ocean indefinitely.  Now we're seeing the limits of that mechanism.

thornhappy

thorn,

That may all well be true, and it may be a danger that we need to face.

However, it's the ... easy and facile ... transition from worrying about CO2 because of AGW, to the sudden "concern" about the death of the oceans because of that deadly CO2 that makes any serious discussion about it unlikely at the moment.

The reason being, is that some of us suspicious, skeptical and cynical bastards who have questioned the "science" behind AGW for years have always seen a ideological and philosophical drive behind it that had damn all to do with actually "saving the planet", and more to do with destroying the capitalist system, punishing success, and increasing the power of government ("never let a good crisis go to waste").

As soon as the man behind the curtain seems exposed on AGW ... damn! ... another "WE MUST SAVE THE PLANET" clarion call goes out ... with the same exact villains and I betcha the same damn solutions as was required to "solve" AGW.

If you understand that there will be many, many more people who will have the same suspicions now, that never would have before, then you may start to be able to understand the real damage that the "scientist" of AGW have done to environmentalism, science, and any real problems that we may face.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Sure we can pump whatever we want into the air.  We can dump whatever we want into the water and that has no effect on anything either.

Now let's experiment at your house, we'll close you in and start dumping stuff, it'll have no effect, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

Sorry, fella, I deal in facts.  If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you.

But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence.  I'd be interested in seeing your data.

Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other.  The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

Sorry, fella, I deal in facts.  If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you.

But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence.  I'd be interested in seeing your data.

Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other.  The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists.

Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review.

Vincent

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

Sorry, fella, I deal in facts.  If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you.

But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence.  I'd be interested in seeing your data.

Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other.  The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists.

Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review.

Vincent

?? That isnt an agenda, in either sense of the word, it is a methodology.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

So many GCC deniers here on collarme, sorta kills the old cliche that bdsm people are better educated and more sophisticated than the general public....

Sorry, fella, I deal in facts.  If you want to show the percentage of GCC deniers in the general population and the percentage of them in the cm community and make a case for a significant difference, I'll be willing to listen to you.

But I believe that your theory is that acceptance of the GCC theory is directly correlated with intelligence.  I'd be interested in seeing your data.

Sorry, but I have seen nothing in this whole argument that I consider convincing, either one way or the other.  The whole damn argument is fueled by people with agendas, not scientists.

Gee, Steven, you are surprised that scientists have agendas? The most basic agenda is to defend a position based on research. Peer review.

Vincent

?? That isnt an agenda, in either sense of the word, it is a methodology.

Very well. That is a fair point.

It still lies with Steven to justify his sweeping claim that he sees nothing in the whole argument that is convincing. I might also ask him to define "convincing" while he is at it.

Vincent

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes?

"Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!"

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I heard about that here, from our own National Marine Laboratory, it seems they have got on the AGW band wagon too, but I also read somewhere, maybe these forums, the acidification of the seas, is balanced out by other happenings, the acidification is just one thing that has been isolated amongst other things, but the acidification is more political, so it comes to the fore.

And if it's not, then sea creatures will have to adapt to changing conditions, just like the humans, as nothing is going to stop the planet doing it's thing, or big business making money.

Honestly though, all these , if you can't blind them with science,(because the science is flawed), baffle them with bullshit peddlars, the pro AGW scientific community, they better watch it, because if they try to sell us something based on flawed data, they run the risk of being ignored and ridiculed in future, by a public fed up with bullshit baffling so called scientists, they will destroy their status for everyone involved in science.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

hmmm ... is this the "backup" position, now that "AGW" seems to be on the ropes?

"Well, maybe Anthropogenic Global Warming was a fraud, and bad science, and we've been caught out .... but we can still destroy the capitalist system and take away those pesky Americans' money by claiming that the evil CO2 is destroying the oceans!"

Firm

Do you honestly believe that this is all a vast conspiracy by scientists from all over the globe to promote a fraud?

To what end?  Are they all getting rich off this?