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AAkasha -> RE: Why do Women blank male subs in real life (12/28/2009 9:59:27 AM)
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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
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ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery
She did not mention anything . i only said that i would like to serve someone but did not specify Her specifically.
kevin
Simple rule: Don't ever bring any of this stuff up, EVER, when chatting with a lady unless she brings it up. And what you said here doesn't match what you said two posts earlier, you are now changing your story.
There are a lot of guys at munches that are creepy and clingy. Don't be that guy.
Akasha
Excellent advice as always, AAkasha. Listen to her, L.
I'll describe how I feel when this happens. Not all women feel this same way but a lot do: they tell me so! :) When a man I'm having an otherwise pleasant conversation with in real life and might want to get to know better brings up sexual orientation, my heart sinks. It's a kiss of death to a budding friendship/relationship because it's too much too soon. No matter how nice he may otherwise be, his pushing so early for sexual role details tells me I'm nothing special to him. Just a female body he wants to selfishly use for ... whatever his fetish happens to be. Offering to clean someone's house is still using them to get your own needs for service met, and it can come across as pretty selfish and uncaring. You're saying, essentially: you're female and you're the orientation I prefer. It doesn't matter who YOU really are. I don't need to get to know you, your personality doesn't matter, all that matters is your function, your role. Just do me in the way I want to be done. Women of all orientations get approached the way you approached her...a lot, so it gets very old, very fast. What is unusual is for a man to just be friendly and open and nice to you without mentioning sex or power roles at all...until it's appropriate. Knowing when it is appropriate is much harder for a dominant man: he has to read the woman in question carefully, and strike the correct balance. Too soon or too strong is just as devestating to a potential relationship as too late or too little. But as a sub man, it's much easier: just follow the woman's lead. You'll find out if she's dominant or not soon enough. Just be patient.
Also, maybe her orientation is something she's not too comfortable with or something that is in flux. A personal question like that could have hit a nerve. Following her lead, and not mentioning sexual roles or anything like serving her until she brings up the subject can demonstrate to a dominant that you're a bit more sensitive and socially aware than the run-of-the-mill submissive, and that increases your value. Sensitive, unselfish, and socially aware people make better submissives, usually. Demonstrate that you're willing to take things at her pace, rather than push for her to follow at your pace.
Finally, you need to tread especailly carefully around someone who already has a partner. If I were you, as soon as I heard the words, "I have a partner," I'd put this person into the "friends but potentially good friends" category and not expect or ask anything from them that was bdsm-orientied. If I liked them I would try very hard to cultivate a platonic relationship with them. It helps to have friends--even if the friends aren't letting you serve them. :) But the primary reason to put the brakes on when you hear someone has a partner is so you don't risk hurting the other submissive. Maybe it's her partner's privledge to clean her house, maybe it's something that really fulfills him. So what you are offering to do may take some special form of service that means a lot to him away from him. Did it occur to you that your offer might be seen by the dominant as selfish and threatening to his well-being? Maybe sub men don't encounter this much, but sub women certainly do. It is often a Really Big Deal, even a cause for despair, when your own duties, your service to your dominant, is given to another sub or slave. Many submissives percieve this as a signal that they are unwanted or unneeded.
Aakasha, re: your sig. I remember reading your website in the mid-90s. I enjoyed it very much, which is not a way I responded to many of the bdsm sites that were around in those days. You had/have a perceptive, open mind and you didn't try to channel all ideas into nice safe predictable, neutered paths, as so many other bdsm sites did.
Caring - thanks for the sweet words!!
I think something in this post needs to be restated: Be patient. I could totally relate when you talked about how it feels when a man starts talking about kink or questioning about things like orientation; there have been so many times at kinky clubs or parties, when I used to frequent them, that I was really clicking with a guy or he sparked my interest, and ultimately most of the time when the conversation inevitably was directed to kink (his move, not mine) it just crashed and burned.
For sub men: What is the WORST thing that could happen by keeping all kink off the table until she starts to move it in that direction? The thing is, with me, it's not a long wait - if I am attracted to a man, my kinkier side, which is intertwined with my affectionate side, just comes out. I LOVE to be in control of flirtation, and I love to control how information is revealed. Don't get me wrong - I like (and need) a man to be interested in me, ask questions, and not have it be one sided - but the questions don't have to be about sex or kink.
The other thing sub men should realize is that by NOT talking about kink, you immediately differentiate yourself from the masses in a kinky setting. I can promise you most women are being inundated with sexually laced innuendo or outright questions - by just treating her like a gentleman treats a lady, you are different from the others. It's impossible not to notice.
When I really, really like a guy in a potential S&m flirtation, whether it be online or in real life, if he's pushing the kinky envelope or even just hinting awkwardly, it seems I spend all my energy trying to reel him back in and get him to back off so we can proceed in a way that works for my "femdom predatory side," and then often I am dealing with "mr. apologetic" and it's just awkward and clumsy for all parties. The same men that seem to want to get the kinky chit chat right out on the table (I mean in a titillating way, not a psychological way) also respond with 'heavy submissive posturing' to my strong clues to tone it down or back off, and we end up in the same spot again, ("My apologies Mistress" -- "I'm not your Mistress, we just are getting to know each other right now," "You're right, Goddess." Facepalm.) When I see a real great *guy* I want to get to know (and the kink will follow, that's just how my motor runs), the worst thing in the world is having to get the horse back into the barn, so to speak...
When I have met a guy I know is submissive or kinky, and really, there's nothing on the table by him that suggests anything other than he's Mr. Vanilla Guy, he becomes more and more illusive and mysterious by the moment. Then I get to start devising ways I am going to find out just how far his kinky streak goes, and I find myself wondering and imagining in my mind what kind of nasty kinky things he's done and how he'd respond to them - this is a much more erotic, exciting and predatory mindframe to be in, rather than a guy laying it all right out there and chalking it up to "common interests" or "making sure we're compatible."
Akasha
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