US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP)

US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (Full Version)

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Brain -> US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 3:56:31 PM)
This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. And I will add its unfortunate Americans continue to vote for corrupt politicians. US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) Over the past year alone, the public debt of the United States rose sharply from 41 to 53 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). Under reasonable assumptions, the debt is projected to grow steadily, reaching 85 percent of GDP by 2018, 100 percent by 2022, and 200 percent in 2038. However, before the debt reached such high levels, the United States would almost certainly experience a debt-driven crisis — something previously viewed as almost unfathomable in the world’s largest economy. A comment from the site: "Also, most telling that neither party will take on govt. corruption to save money either. Buying votes with taxpayer money till the China banker cuts the credit card!" http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Report-In-one-year-US-debt-has-risen-from-41-to-53-percent-of-GDP-79253352.html

TheHeretic -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 4:00:58 PM)
Do you bother to read your own links, Brian?

Brain -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 5:44:10 PM)
I think they need to do both. They need to pass reforms and I think they need to reverse the Bush tax cuts. I don't see why I have to agree 100% with every link I might post. I don't see that I have to agree with every single word. I'm just concerned about the deficit and I don't appreciate people like Dick Cheney saying for so many years deficits don't matter. What a bunch of bulllshit that deficits don't matter.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 5:47:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. And I will add its unfortunate Americans continue to vote for corrupt politicians. US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) Over the past year alone, the public debt of the United States rose sharply from 41 to 53 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). Under reasonable assumptions, the debt is projected to grow steadily, reaching 85 percent of GDP by 2018, 100 percent by 2022, and 200 percent in 2038. However, before the debt reached such high levels, the United States would almost certainly experience a debt-driven crisis — something previously viewed as almost unfathomable in the world’s largest economy. A comment from the site: "Also, most telling that neither party will take on govt. corruption to save money either. Buying votes with taxpayer money till the China banker cuts the credit card!" http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Report-In-one-year-US-debt-has-risen-from-41-to-53-percent-of-GDP-79253352.html Someone's smoking dope here.... The debt (everything) is easily 3 or 4 times GDP. The "deficit" (this year's "overage") is 50 - 65% of GDP. (Someone needs to check their facts)

Fellow -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:19:46 PM)
One thing to remember in connection with this is that the government GDP accounting is actually inflated number. Also, when to make future predictions the structure of GDP is very important. Here is the government methods analysis: http://www.shadowstats.com/

LookieNoNookie -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:22:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow One thing to remember in connection with this is that the government GDP accounting is actually inflated number. Also, when to make future predictions the structure of GDP is very important. Here is the government methods analysis: http://www.shadowstats.com/ Indeed

LookieNoNookie -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:26:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. By the way....just for the record (not that anyone cares)...the "rich" have been paying an ever increasing share of the total taxes paid since the early 80's....and they now pay close to 90+% of the total share of taxes (depending on who's counting....and how you measure the "rich"). It's the "not rich" who are paying an ever *decreasing* share of the taxes paid....(but who's counting?).

pahunkboy -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:28:24 PM)
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/512.html well they keep 2 sets of books. This can be fixed. The treasury makes up a batch of trillion $ coins.... and use of them as a rule of using them is they are only good on purchases of 1 trillion $ or higher and no change can be given in return. Now I said the treasury not the federal reserve. Being that it then is our own money- no interest would ever be due on it.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:49:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/512.html well they keep 2 sets of books. This can be fixed. The treasury makes up a batch of trillion $ coins.... and use of them as a rule of using them is they are only good on purchases of 1 trillion $ or higher and no change can be given in return. Now I said the treasury not the federal reserve. Being that it then is our own money- no interest would ever be due on it. (Huh?????) (Haven't seen any trillion dollar coins lately).

rulemylife -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 6:54:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie By the way....just for the record (not that anyone cares)...the "rich" have been paying an ever increasing share of the total taxes paid since the early 80's....and they now pay close to 90+% of the total share of taxes (depending on who's counting....and how you measure the "rich"). It's the "not rich" who are paying an ever *decreasing* share of the taxes paid....(but who's counting?). I'm counting .................. how many posts you can make throwing out numbers without any substantiation in one thread.

tazzygirl -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:30:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. By the way....just for the record (not that anyone cares)...the "rich" have been paying an ever increasing share of the total taxes paid since the early 80's....and they now pay close to 90+% of the total share of taxes (depending on who's counting....and how you measure the "rich"). It's the "not rich" who are paying an ever *decreasing* share of the taxes paid....(but who's counting?). Lets put this into perspective Minimum AGI for tax return to fall into various percentiles 2007 Year 2007 Total 0 Top 0.1% $2,155,365 Top 1% $410,096 Top 5% $160,041 Top 10% $113,018 Top 25% $66,532 Top 50% $32,879 The top 0.1%... This 10 percent of the returns in the top 1 percent amounts to only 141,000 tax returns but accounts for nearly 12 percent of the adjusted gross income earned and approximately 20 percent of the nation's federal individual income taxes. So, now that we know what the numbers actually are... The top 50%, which starts at income of 32,000 and change and goes up from there, pay 97% of the taxes. The top 25% pay 86 % the top 10% pay 71% the top 5% pay 60% the top 1% pay 40% http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html While the rich pay alot, they do not pay 90% of the total share of taxes.

pahunkboy -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:31:26 PM)
God save the banks!

tazzygirl -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:33:58 PM)
Banks? ok, you lost me.

InvisibleBlack -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:41:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. By the way....just for the record (not that anyone cares)...the "rich" have been paying an ever increasing share of the total taxes paid since the early 80's....and they now pay close to 90+% of the total share of taxes (depending on who's counting....and how you measure the "rich"). It's the "not rich" who are paying an ever *decreasing* share of the taxes paid....(but who's counting?). Lets put this into perspective Minimum AGI for tax return to fall into various percentiles 2007 Year 2007 Total 0 Top 0.1% $2,155,365 Top 1% $410,096 Top 5% $160,041 Top 10% $113,018 Top 25% $66,532 Top 50% $32,879 The top 0.1%... This 10 percent of the returns in the top 1 percent amounts to only 141,000 tax returns but accounts for nearly 12 percent of the adjusted gross income earned and approximately 20 percent of the nation's federal individual income taxes. So, now that we know what the numbers actually are... The top 50%, which starts at income of 32,000 and change and goes up from there, pay 97% of the taxes. The top 25% pay 86 % the top 10% pay 71% the top 5% pay 60% the top 1% pay 40% http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html While the rich pay alot, they do not pay 90% of the total share of taxes. How do you define "rich"?

tazzygirl -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:43:00 PM)
I consider rich the top 1%

pahunkboy -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:49:19 PM)
In a way it is a mute argument. After 9-11 alot of capital has left the US. The biggest money is parked in off shore accounts- and contrary to the IRS clampdown- the biggest boys will never be touched. When we passed TARP- anything after that is mute. We are up to something like 23 trillion $.

tazzygirl -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 7:57:12 PM)
Correcting a misconception is never a moot point. The top 1% pay 40% while making over 410,000 a year. The burden is supported by the 49% beneath them... 57% while making from 32,000 to 400,000. And i am expected to be outraged because they pay 40%?

Brain -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/20/2009 8:04:46 PM)
I don't think so, read the following: Top 1% got 2/3 of all U.S. income gains - 2002-07 \| National Union of Public and General Employees Gap between top 1% and bottom 90% now worse than at any time since 1928. Ottawa (10 Sept. 2009) - Two-thirds of all American income gains from 2002 to 2007 flowed to the top 1% of U.S. households, giving that privileged minority a larger share of income at the end of the period than at any time since 1928. During the period, the average inflation-adjusted income of the top 1% of households soared by 62% compared to a gain of just 4% for the bottom 90% of households. http://www.nupge.ca/node/2544 David Sirota: The Me-First, Screw-Everyone-Else Crowd - Truthdig I’m also fairly certain that when many of you run into the Me-First, Screw-Everyone-Else Crowd, you don’t feel like confronting the faux outrage. But on the off chance you do muster the masochistic impulse to engage, here’s a guide to navigating the conversation: What They Will Scream: We can’t raise business taxes, because American businesses already pay excessively high taxes! What You Should Say: Here’s the smallest violin in the world playing for the businesses. The Government Accountability Office reports that most U.S. corporations pay zero federal income tax. Additionally, as even the Bush Treasury Department admitted, America’s effective corporate tax rate is the third-lowest in the industrialized world. What They Will Scream: But the rich still “pay close to 60 percent of this nation’s taxes!” What You Should Say: Such statistics refer only to the federal income tax. When considering all of “this nation’s taxes” including payroll, state and local levies, the top 5 percent pay just 38.5 percent of the taxes. What They Will Scream: But 38.5 percent is disproportionately high! See? You’ve proved that the rich “contribute more than their share” of taxes! What You Should Say: Actually, they are paying almost exactly “their share.” According to the data, the wealthiest 5 percent of America pays 38.5 percent of the total taxes precisely because they make just about that share—a whopping 36.5 percent!—of total national income. Asking these folks to pay slightly more in taxes—and still less than they did during the go-go 1990s—is hardly extreme. Stripped of facts, your conversation partner will soon turn to unscientific terrain, claiming it is immoral to “steal” and “redistribute” income via taxes. Of course, he will be specifically railing on “stealing” for stuff like health care, which he insists gets “redistributed” only to the undeserving and the “lazy” (a classic codeword for “minorities”). But he will also say it’s OK that government sent trillions of dollars to Wall Streeters. And that’s when you should stop wasting your breath. What you’ve discovered is that the Me-First, Screw-Everyone-Else Crowd isn’t interested in fairness, empiricism or morality. With 22,000 of their fellow countrymen dying annually for lack of health insurance and with Warren Buffett paying a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, the Me-First, Screw-Everyone-Else Crowd is merely using the argot of fairness, empiricism and morality to hide its real motive: selfish greed. No argument, however rational, is going to cure these narcissists of that grotesque disease. David Sirota is the bestselling author of “Hostile Takeover” (2006) and “The Uprising” (2008). Find his blog at OpenLeft.com or e-mail him at [email protected] http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090806_the_me-first_screw-everyone-else_crowd/ quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. By the way....just for the record (not that anyone cares)...the "rich" have been paying an ever increasing share of the total taxes paid since the early 80's....and they now pay close to 90+% of the total share of taxes (depending on who's counting....and how you measure the "rich"). It's the "not rich" who are paying an ever *decreasing* share of the taxes paid....(but who's counting?).

DomImus -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/21/2009 4:37:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. Debt (in this case actually deficits) occur when you spend more than you make or take in. When an individual goes into debt it is not their employer's fault for paying them too little. You don't have much of a grasp of basic economics. As far as taxes are concerned, it's about that time of year when the electronic tax refund filing places get busy processing the "refunds" for all those fuckers who didn't pay any tax at all this year. And guess what, Brain. They aren't the rich.

DarkSteven -> RE: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) (12/21/2009 5:39:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain This is what happens when rich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. I assume you're alluding to the Bush tax cuts, passed years ago. They obviously can not be responsible for just last year's increase in the deficit, but if you want to make a case that they're responsible for the swelling of the deficit since they've been passed, you will have logic on your side and a stronger argument. I've always held that we cannot afford those cuts, and it's an insult to intelligence that we are expected to believe that cuts in taxes coupled with an increase in spending will help the economy magically, with no repercussions. Just a hint - the economy also took a nosedive last year. When people's incomes drop, that's another reason the deficit could have swelled. As well as increases in federal spending. quote: And I will add its unfortunate Americans continue to vote for corrupt politicians. Please point out to me the candidates that are not corrupt. quote: US Debt rises from 41% to 53% of Gross National Product (GDP) Over the past year alone, the public debt of the United States rose sharply from 41 to 53 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). Under reasonable assumptions, the debt is projected to grow steadily, reaching 85 percent of GDP by 2018, 100 percent by 2022, and 200 percent in 2038. Dead wrong. Those are NOT reasonable assumptions. They seem to assume a constant 3.2% deficit growth per year ad infinitum. This assumes unlimited outside money to buy our debt with no confidence crisis among our lenders. quote: However, before the debt reached such high levels, the United States would almost certainly experience a debt-driven crisis — something previously viewed as almost unfathomable in the world’s largest economy. A comment from the site: "Also, most telling that neither party will take on govt. corruption to save money either. Buying votes with taxpayer money till the China banker cuts the credit card!" http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Report-In-one-year-US-debt-has-risen-from-41-to-53-percent-of-GDP-79253352.html I don't view this as corruption as much as pandering. Nobody's paying off the pols to drive up the deficits but they're afraid to tell people that the easy times are gone.

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