RE: the Loved Dominant

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lally2 -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 2:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 if i have a bloke about to tie me up and beat me im gonna need to trust him 100% And because you need to have 100 % trust... all such type relationship must have more trust and acceptance as result?...... The logic is highly flawed... expecially since you are not representative of every single individual that engages in such relationships.... Your you! and as such... what you believe to be needed is HIGHLY appreciated by me and I suspect must people. But... what you need is not what everyone needs in this style of relationship or what other need to have other styles of relationships. granted! - i can only speak for myself - i could add disclaimers and jam up what im trying to say with 'i realise im speakng for myself only' but im assuming that people know that. by using the 'i' rather than the 'we' i figured that should discount any need for such disclaimers. edited to add in response to youre next post: the assumption that i think my way is the only way and that im spouting some universal wisdom at all and sundry is really rude of you. if i come across that way and clearly i do then i shall try very hard to avoid that in the future.

AquaticSub -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:09:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub There are also plenty of relationships where one partner makes final decisions regarding X and the other regarding Y. Again to me, the fact that they are making decisions over me just doesn't factor into how much I need to trust them. I trust them to make good decisions wherever they are making decisions otherwise I wouldn't be with them at all. yes, but there was a process in getting to that point where you trusted his decision making and that it was someone you knew you could relax with, inbetween penguin impersonations of course [:D] Just like any relationship. I'd be somewhat disturbed if someone jumped into trusting anyone with their bank account as easily as I jump into playing with people. So I suppose it depends on what, specifically, you are talking about in regards to trust. As I got to know Val, I trusted him with more and more - exactly the same as I did with my vanilla exes. quote: i meet alot of people in their homes through the course of the week. even the guys who are into their very late years and arguably more Ds than vanilla in many cases all discuss things with each other first, they can never make a decision until theyve consulted their spouse first. people in egalitarian relationships tend to feel that it is disrespectful and undermining for their partner to make decisions for them and on their behalf without consulting them first. and in the end that isnt about trust anyway. its about shared responsibility. Some people do. When I was in vanilla relationships, I felt perfectly capable of making plenty of decisions without consulting my partner. Hell, in this power dynamic I make plenty without consulting Valyraen because I know him well enough to know what he wants. He allows this because I'm right about 98 percent of the time and he'd rather endure the 2 percent than be bothered with it the rest of the time. If we do this in our power dynamic, I know there are plenty of vanillas who do the same.

AquaticSub -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 if i come across that way and clearly i do then i shall try very hard to avoid that in the future. It is sounding a bit that way. It could just be me and it's the internet. It's really easy to screw up how your words come across and it's really easy to take things the wrong way without realizing it. Like penguin impressions. [:D]

osf -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:16:30 PM)
quote: It is sounding a bit that way. It could just be me and it's the internet. It's really easy to screw up how your words come across and it's really easy to take things the wrong way without realizing it. it sure is

KnightofMists -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:31:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Being restrained and hurt?That's a risk of a few hours lally. A greater risk is marrying him and having his child, that risk lasts the next 20odd years. And risking spending the next 50 years in bed with the same man every night? Knowing that there will be times when he's snoring that you will want to smother him with a pillow, yet you commit to it anyway? Much bigger risk. HEY..... what about the risk I take snoring between two (and they each have three pillows!!!) .... Obviously my Trust is more than someone that sleeps beside one person. I feel so much better now... I have more trust in my relationship that you less trusting Monogamist people!!!! PS... I have two girls in my life... but I don't believe or think there is more trust in my life than when it was just Alandra and I.... except maybe in bed when I am snoring!

AquaticSub -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:33:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists HEY..... what about the risk I take snoring between two (and they each have three pillows!!!) .... Obviously my Trust is more than someone that sleeps beside one person. I feel so much better now... I have more trust in my relationship that you less trusting Monogamist people!!!! PS... I have two girls in my life... but I don't believe or think there is more trust in my life than when it was just Alandra and I.... except maybe in bed when I am snoring! Does this mean we have less trust because we don't have a third to risk pillow attacks on Val yet? [:-]

lally2 -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 if i come across that way and clearly i do then i shall try very hard to avoid that in the future. It is sounding a bit that way. It could just be me and it's the internet. It's really easy to screw up how your words come across and it's really easy to take things the wrong way without realizing it. Like penguin impressions. [:D] well, then i apologise to everyone - im not like that at all - i just warble on and get carried away when im trying to chase a thought down. ill be more careful of how i put things from now on.

AquaticSub -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:35:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 ill be more careful of how i put things from now on. It's all good. Like I said, it could just be me. And G-d knows sometimes I feel like I'm writing a thesis or something when I do a CM post cause I want to try and be as articulate as possible. And sometimes I get my ass chewed on cause I screwed up! [:D]

KnightofMists -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:45:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 granted! - i can only speak for myself - i could add disclaimers and jam up what im trying to say with 'i realise im speakng for myself only' but im assuming that people know that. by using the 'i' rather than the 'we' i figured that should discount any need for such disclaimers. edited to add in response to youre next post: the assumption that i think my way is the only way and that im spouting some universal wisdom at all and sundry is really rude of you. if i come across that way and clearly i do then i shall try very hard to avoid that in the future. lally... one doesn't need to add disclaimers they just need to be alittle more thoughtful in their word choices that what applies to them actually applies to them. Use I instead WE... or me instead of Us. For the opinion that you think I was rude.... well I don't really care that you think it was rude or not. I speak to the issue "directly to the issue" on the opinion that was conveyed in universal tone that I am in strong disagreement to. I find such concepts to show a lack of thoughtfulness of other relationship styles and the end result that even if it's not intended undermind their value for ones own ego and feelings. As I said... I have no doubt that you feel an increase need to have more trust and acceptance in an M/s dynamic... but that doesn't speak for everyone nor should it. If I said... Poly relationships take more trust and acceptance than monogamist relationships...... I wonder how that would sit with Monogamist individuals!

KnightofMists -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 3:48:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub [Does this mean we have less trust because we don't have a third to risk pillow attacks on Val yet? [:-] I am afraid so... and well... I suspect I have less trust than a poly relationship where they have 4 pillows each!

KnightofMists -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 4:13:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 this has been fired up by a friend on the other side. A Dominant i have a great deal of respect for in terms of his insight and understanding. a great deal is talked about how much the submissive needs to feel loved, cared for, cherished. but what makes a Dominant feel loved. in the context of D/s and Ms, which is where the relationship springs from what are the aspects of enslavement and submission that make you feel cherished. is it all about trust. does her level of trust in you = her love for you. when so much is discussed about how much a sub or slave 'needs' to express herself and does so through submission what part of that 'need' makes you feel loved for you. as a sub/slave type the love i have felt for a Master went far deeper than for any other man i have known. because he was strict and controlled me? partly. because he took the trouble to know me and understand me? - very much. and yet i have been told by a slave on here i respect hugely and others i respect that it isnt for a sub or slave to understand her master or even to know him. simply to accept and not question, not seek to know his private, personal mind. its a very personal question i know, i hope you dont mind me asking. I suppose now that I confronted you and I suspected frustrated you somewhat.... I think I will respond to the orginal thought of your OP. I feel loved when someone takes the time and shows the desire to want to know me! ALL of Me! It is not just accepting who I am... but the desire to know who I am... not just today... but tomorrow too. I am a changing person with each step.... I am someone that to know me is to walk with me each and every step! In short.. they walk with me! It's not just accepting... but the demonstration of acceptance! by taking those steps with me. The other side of the coin is they wanting me to be with them to know them. I think nothing shows greater love than opening themself to me in who they are and want me to walk with them as well. For me love is not a one-way street... it's goes both ways ... They can take all the time and have all the desire to know me... but if they do not share themselves as well... I will never feel that love between us! I read your op... and find this comment....."it isnt for a sub or slave to understand her master or even to know him. simply to accept and not question, not seek to know his private, personal mind." I don't find this to be particularly wise advice that all... though... I caution that this doesn't mean the opposite is the path either. I can only suggest you throw out absolutes like this comment and focus instead first on what you desire from a relationship for your own happiness and find someone that melds well with that. It is shaky ground when we are walking a path made by others instead of one of our own making.

AquaticSub -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 5:32:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub [Does this mean we have less trust because we don't have a third to risk pillow attacks on Val yet? [:-] I am afraid so... and well... I suspect I have less trust than a poly relationship where they have 4 pillows each! Curses! Now I need to fill our bed with twenty hot women so that we can have the most trust EVER! Actually... there are a lot of other things I could do with a bed full of hot women beyond trusting... [:D]

agirl -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 6:55:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 this has been fired up by a friend on the other side. A Dominant i have a great deal of respect for in terms of his insight and understanding. a great deal is talked about how much the submissive needs to feel loved, cared for, cherished. but what makes a Dominant feel loved. *Dominant men aren't a breed apart, what makes them feel loved is going to vary as much as any other guy.** in the context of D/s and Ms, which is where the relationship springs from what are the aspects of enslavement and submission that make you feel cherished. Being cherished may very well not be anything to DO with the D/s aspect of relating , but to do with the fact that two people know each other well and appreciate each other for many things besides being D/s. is it all about trust. does her level of trust in you = her love for you. My trust in him FAR precluded any feelings. I've had trust in all my partners....it's just been in varying combinations and in varying areas; vanilla or otherwise. when so much is discussed about how much a sub or slave 'needs' to express herself and does so through submission what part of that 'need' makes you feel loved for you. *I'd imagine that most people hope that they are more than a receptical for someone else's submissive feelings.* as a sub/slave type the love i have felt for a Master went far deeper than for any other man i have known. because he was strict and controlled me? partly. because he took the trouble to know me and understand me? - very much. and yet i have been told by a slave on here i respect hugely and others i respect that it isnt for a sub or slave to understand her master or even to know him. simply to accept and not question, not seek to know his private, personal mind. I don't need to know the ins and outs of everything he thinks.......but if I hadn't bloody well known him, I wouldn't have been in any position to have asked to be his. You have to decide if you know someone well enough to know that you don't HAVE to know them. I knew what mattered........ it didn't mean I knew him. I don't have to know everything, I never did and I still don't. The slave who asserted that it......"isnt for a sub or slave to understand her master or even to know him. simply to accept and not question, not seek to know his private, personal mind." ..is speaking of her own personal ideas. We rather like being clear to each other .....and that means both of us does let the other know. It really has to be taken in context. If I was told to go strip ......it wouldn't be a great idea to ask * Well, why??* ... not here, not in THIS relationship. It may be perfectly fine in others. There's some natural balance of accepting what I know..... to NOT have to ask to know more. If I had to ask, it'd mean a right old curfuffle. I always find out in the end. its a very personal question i know, i hope you dont mind me asking. agirl

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:33:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub It seems you and I have a fundemental difference in how we view trust in regards to d/s. Which is logical since trust is such a personal thing. Which is why I presented useful visual aids. [8D][;)] You seem to be approaching trust as a comprehensive umbrella word whereas I can't see how it isn't, instead, an amalgamation of numerous micro-variables set at different intensities. I'm not talking about a "general" trust in terms of whether the potency of trust between one couple is greater than another simply based on the type of relationship, but the expanse of area into which trust spreads is, by definition, wider in a D/s dynamic because it is based on degrees of surrender beyond those of vanilla relationships.

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:38:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub No, I trust him to make competent decisions. And, considering your dynamic, I don't think it is a stretch to say that you trust him with making the decisions in a wider spectrum of situations than your average vanilla friend. quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub And if you don't trust them to make good decisions, why are you in a relationship with them? Vanilla people are in relationships where they don't trust their partner with certain things because of either enforced or agreed upon stipulations regarding the presumption that self-choice trumps all else. They are in relationships because they don't care about the relinquishing or obtaining of trust in areas that a D/s relationship would require. If I am in a relationship with a slave and I am in control of how she is to dress at every moment before going out in public, that is a facet of trust surrendered unto me which a partner in a vanilla relationship who doesn't want their partner to choose their clothes hasn't surrendered.

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I feel that to say more trust is required implies our relationships are better. Not at all. But the mindset is familiar. Threads have spawned from subs getting the same feeling of emotional affirmative action when comparing themselves to slaves who surrender "more" to their partner because they cannot differentiate between the words "more" and "better". They aren't synonymous. Your sigline aside, if you caught me saying that "there is likely more cocksucking going on in D/s relationships than vanilla ones", would you think I was trying to say D/s relationships are better because they have "more" of X (where X, in this case = cocksucking)?

DesFIP -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:45:53 PM)
I've got to say that even in this nonegalitarian relationship he checks in with me. Not because he can't make the decision without my agreement but because he may well be lacking info that I have. Such as if we are free on Saturday night to see friends or do we already have something happening?

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:46:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists But... what you need is not what everyone needs in this style of relationship or what other need to have other styles of relationships. Exactly! Which is why "more" of anything in one relationship versus another (even "trust") does not automatically imply "better".

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:50:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I've got to say that even in this nonegalitarian relationship he checks in with me. Not because he can't make the decision without my agreement but because he may well be lacking info that I have. Such as if we are free on Saturday night to see friends or do we already have something happening? That would strike me as a mindset that would engender a more profound (intensity) general trust. I was tempted to go off on a tangent and ask "If he didn't check in with you, would you be prone to trust him less?", but the answer doesn't really matter. The underlying point I'm getting with this part of the conversation is that happiness between partners, not "more" of anything else, is what ultimately qualifies one relationship as "better" (in as objective as possible a sense of the word) than the next.

NihilusZero -> RE: the Loved Dominant (12/21/2009 7:56:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists lally... one doesn't need to add disclaimers they just need to be alittle more thoughtful in their word choices that what applies to them actually applies to them. Use I instead WE... or me instead of Us. To that end, though, half the trouble she's been dealing with comes from the misapplied parallelizing (if it wasn't a word before, it is now) of "more trust" and "better relationship". quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists For the opinion that you think I was rude.... well I don't really care that you think it was rude or not. I speak to the issue "directly to the issue" on the opinion that was conveyed in universal tone that I am in strong disagreement to. I find such concepts to show a lack of thoughtfulness of other relationship styles and the end result that even if it's not intended undermind their value for ones own ego and feelings. You've been on this site longer than I, yet even in my time I can't recall lally ever being the type to toss out intentionally inflammatory comments for the sake of an ego boost. I strikes me a bit odd that other forum regulars would have jumped to that initial conclusion. quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists If I said... Poly relationships take more trust and acceptance than monogamist relationships...... I wonder how that would sit with Monogamist individuals! They'd have to suck it up, wouldn't they? Defying mathematics is a bit hard when trying to still square your view to reality. 3 oranges > 2 oranges (thus the innards of 3 oranges > the innards of 2 oranges)

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