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Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 4:59:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Now the real deal begins. Up till now, 2/3 vote was required. Past this point, its majority rules. What would do my heart good would be to see many of these holdouts for special perks be told.. fuck off.. though i doubt that will happen.

But now the true negotiation begin. Majority is far from 2/3, and has a much better chance of passage with the original parts of the bill intact... such as public option, which isnt dead in the house version.

Folks... the interesting stuff begins now!

Washington (CNN) -- The Senate has passed an $871 billion health care reform bill.

Senators voted 60-39 shortly after 7 a.m. to pass the bill, the centerpiece of President Obama's domestic agenda. Every member of the Democratic caucus backed the measure; every Republican opposed it.

The bill now moves to a conference committee to reconcile differences with the version passed by the House of Representatives.

The Senate health care bill cleared a third and final procedural hurdle Wednesday as Democrats successfully limited remaining debate time on the $871 billion measure.

That vote, also 60-39 along party lines, set up Thursday's vote on final passage.

Democrats also turned back last-ditch motions from Republicans claiming various provisions in the bill, including a mandate that individuals purchase coverage, are unconstitutional.

"It's long past time we declare health care a right and not a privilege," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said after Wednesday's vote.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/24/health.care/index.html?section=cnn_latest

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 5:31:32 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Watching all the machinations and umpteen versions of a healthcare reform bill I am more and more convinced that the US government really was designed to not work....its so very byzantine and convoluted its a wonder anything gets accomplished.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 6:18:44 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Awww, Arpig.  Its the American way!! 

I'll be very interested to see how this finally, once and for all, plays out.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 6:35:27 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		Well, don't be surprised that once they work something out and Obama signs it, it will end up in court, just like social security and medicare did, just another bump in the road

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 7:17:48 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:



"It's long past time we declare health care a right and not a privilege," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said after Wednesday's vote.


I couldn't agree more. What a pity the bill you worthless assholes passed doesn't address that principle.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 7:24:20 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Watching all the machinations and umpteen versions of a healthcare reform bill I am more and more convinced that the US government really was designed to not work....


It's designed to work very well for an 18th century federation of semi-autonomous rural colonies governed by a benevolent aristocracy. Works perfectly in that environment. Unfortunately, it doesn't age well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
its so very byzantine and convoluted its a wonder anything gets accomplished.



Depending on how one defines "accomplished," you could effectively argue that nothing does. Nothing substantive. This bill, for example... something was obviously done, but was anything really accomplished? You could have a pretty solid, intellectually honest debate around that.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 9:27:36 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Watching all the machinations and umpteen versions of a healthcare reform bill I am more and more convinced that the US government really was designed to not work....its so very byzantine and convoluted its a wonder anything gets accomplished.



That's ok, it's all you Canadians fault anyway.

South Park - Blame Canada -


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 9:47:30 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Watching all the machinations and umpteen versions of a healthcare reform bill I am more and more convinced that the US government really was designed to not work....its so very byzantine and convoluted its a wonder anything gets accomplished.



Yes, exactly.  It was designed to make it very difficult for the federal government to churn out laws.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 10:05:17 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

It's designed to work very well for an 18th century federation of semi-autonomous rural colonies governed by a benevolent aristocracy. Works perfectly in that environment. Unfortunately, it doesn't age well.



Are you trying to say that the Constitution is not the greatest document in the history of mankind?  Second only to the Bible?

Rest assured your traitorous comments will be immediately reported to Homeland Security.




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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 10:30:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

This bill, for example... something was obviously done, but was anything really accomplished? You could have a pretty solid, intellectually honest debate around that.


Panda,

I'd argue something was.

Sure, the bill is flawed--though we don't know yet what it will look like after House/Senate reconciliation. Not uncommonly, House members send a bill through, voting politically, expecting the Senate to improve it.

But it does offer insurance to more people, and it does curb a number of poor industry practices. It's also not the end--after the bill is passed, legislation can and will continue to tinker with it for years.

Most importantly--something was done. Yes, by that I mean anything. Anything. This has been a hurdle since Truman, leaving the U.S. the only industrial nation that hasn't addressed it. Simply that now something will be in place is a significant change. We move forward with the mindset that we have national health care of some sort. What kind will be tweaked.

Look at how the right would love to kill Social Security. They can't though--Roosevelt rightly predicted people would see it as their right, their return on their investment over the years. In a few years, the same will happen here.

It's also why the right is so rabid to kill it in the womb. Once in place, it will be something they cannot kill. To kill it now would be to kill it forever. Additionally, it will hand Obama forever an accomplishment, even a flawed one, people will long remember. However this works, or doesn't, his name will be next to Roosevelt's and Johnson's, for good or ill.

And finally, we can no longer afford the status quo, even ignoring any ethical arguments. Health care costs will continue to rise, spiraling out of control, leaving businesses and workers and hospitals, not to mention patients, in dire straits. Even the industry and doctors have come to recognize this, both its necessity and its inevitability now. Granted, this bill doesn't do what it could to control costs. But it does put a system in place.

From here, for the first time, we've a place from which to address these problems. It's a place we've never had, and a place we desperately need.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/24/2009 10:32:18 AM >

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 11:10:27 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Yes, exactly. It was designed to make it very difficult for the federal government to churn out laws.
I think you are bang on shannie, that is exactly why it was set up that way, so that it would be such a slow process that the individual states could put a stop to something they didn't like.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 11:54:19 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Yes, exactly. It was designed to make it very difficult for the federal government to churn out laws.
I think you are bang on shannie, that is exactly why it was set up that way, so that it would be such a slow process that the individual states could put a stop to something they didn't like.


I think it's important also to consider the Constitution as (in part) a reaction to the rule of the British monarchy. The founders had a deepseated and wellfounded fear of excessive government authority, and took great pains to limit the powers of the federal government. It's unlikely they would have considered this to be important had their concept of an ideal government been forged in a different fire.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 11:58:29 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

This bill, for example... something was obviously done, but was anything really accomplished? You could have a pretty solid, intellectually honest debate around that.


Panda,

I'd argue something was.

Sure, the bill is flawed--though we don't know yet what it will look like after House/Senate reconciliation. Not uncommonly, House members send a bill through, voting politically, expecting the Senate to improve it.

But it does offer insurance to more people, and it does curb a number of poor industry practices. It's also not the end--after the bill is passed, legislation can and will continue to tinker with it for years.


I think that's the only part of what you say that I would take issue with. Everything else, yes - sound points. But for me, it all comes down to the likelihood of this bill ever being improved upon. If it really is a starting point, then yes, I agree it's a good one and I could live with all of the compromises. But if it's an end-point, then it's a travesty, in many ways worse than what we had before because it helps the insurance companies (and possibly the government) far more than it helps the people. I don't see that down-the-road tinkering as likely. You apparently do. I hope to god you're right, and I'm wrong. Because otherwise, all that it's accomplished is to fuck us with a slightly different dick.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 12:01:45 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Next step: Turn two health care bills into one - CNN.com

The Senate on Thursday passed its version of the health care bill, inching the country closer to the biggest expansion of medical coverage since Medicare was enacted more than four decades ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/24/health.care.bill.differences/index.html


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 12:21:25 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I think it's important also to consider the Constitution as (in part) a reaction to the rule of the British monarchy. The founders had a deepseated and wellfounded fear of excessive government authority, and took great pains to limit the powers of the federal government. It's unlikely they would have considered this to be important had their concept of an ideal government been forged in a different fire.
Oh very much so, I concur 100%

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 1:26:55 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Watching all the machinations and umpteen versions of a healthcare reform bill I am more and more convinced that the US government really was designed to not work....its so very byzantine and convoluted its a wonder anything gets accomplished.



That is what I have 'been saying.   The federal govt no longer works.     

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 7:41:48 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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quote:

That is what I have 'been saying.   The federal govt no longer works.    
I honestly don't think it was really ever ment to

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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 7:44:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

That is what I have 'been saying.   The federal govt no longer works.    
I honestly don't think it was really ever ment to


It does seem that the nut show has gotten crazier each year.   Just when I thought I seen it all- the lies get bolder.



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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 8:02:02 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Yeah they do don't they. It seems the Pols don't even really try to cover things anymore....what can I say, Merry Christmas PA

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the Senate! - 12/24/2009 8:03:28 PM   
greeneye57


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think the real problem is we keep electing government officials that have no grasp of reality. If I ran my business the way they run the government (stealing from the future, etc) my company would be broke. But hey it probably already is. It will be great to provide health care for all the risky people out there. I can understand that providing health care for aids infested drug addicts will make my cost go down, yeah right.

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