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RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:54:32 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And were you and some Marines chatting, that'd be one thing.


But because I'm not, I have to beware of people that get offended for other people?

I should censor myself because of others' lack of perspective?

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:57:12 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Steven

I think the GI bill is great...although it was a little different back in the 60's I believe. I am not talking about doing away with the GI bill in any way I want to augment it.

As I explained above it is expensive to train people for war...much cheaper to train for an optional vocation. If people will be leaving the service in 6 months with no further deployments then an option for vocational training, to me anyway, would be great. All you Republicans are wanting to save money... well here is a way...Their would be less need or use of GI benefits.

Vocations are just fine for many soldiers...they do not want a further education...they don't want to be engineers. Do you realize how hard it is to be a certified mason or plumber in most states? AND how much damn money they make? I think many soldiers would jump at the chance and not need or use GI benefits.

It could save money and provide a skilled work force…money for families…less stress…and fewer vets homeless sleeping under bridges. It could mean less suicides, mental illness, and divorces.

I find it hard to understand when a program that may cost zero tax dollars is not embraced… but criticized because expensive benefits programs already exist.


Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:58:17 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		As you wish, dude.

But you apparently didn't learn as much as people generally do in the armed services.

As you were, and enjoy.


(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:59:04 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Steven

I think the GI bill is great...although it was a little different back in the 60's I believe. I am not talking about doing away with the GI bill in any way I want to augment it.



Indeed it is very different. They've expanded it quite a lot, covering more areas of education, giving a veteran more options on where to apply the money.



_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 3:59:48 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		The Marines are a department of the Navy.


The Mens department!


Jeff

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RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:01:05 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As you wish, dude.

But you apparently didn't learn as much as people generally do in the armed services.

As you were, and enjoy.




Says the man who judged my actions prematurely, and refused to understand that it's part of a tradition that's been around far longer than himself.

And I'm curious about your statement there. How do you judge what people learn from the armed forces? And how have I failed to meet an established level? How do you calculate this? Give me facts to back up your slander.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:02:14 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The Marines are a department of the Navy.


The Mens department!


Jeff


Hoo-rah to you, sir!

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:07:29 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Laz,
You did not offend this Marine Mom, thought I can't speak for others. I found it hard to be offended when I felt sure my son would not be.
but banter is, as you say, banter, and you really can't dictate the exact words another will respond with. As long as words are not responded to with closed fists, how is it really upping the degree of conflict at all? If you do not wish others to get offended at your words because they are banter, try not to get offended at the response. I think one of the many things that most learn in the service is, 'don't sweat the small stuff'.
BTW, ready for the Marines or not, Thank You for your service to our country.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:11:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Steven

I think the GI bill is great...although it was a little different back in the 60's I believe. I am not talking about doing away with the GI bill in any way I want to augment it.



Indeed it is very different. They've expanded it quite a lot, covering more areas of education, giving a veteran more options on where to apply the money.




This could be my problem...I am going by the 1969 system...lol But i still think it is a good idea that would save money..Guess I am just alone as usual..lol

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:13:59 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Laz,
You did not offend this Marine Mom, thought I can't speak for others. I found it hard to be offended when I felt sure my son would not be.
but banter is, as you say, banter, and you really can't dictate the exact words another will respond with. As long as words are not responded to with closed fists, how is it really upping the degree of conflict at all? If you do not wish others to get offended at your words because they are banter, try not to get offended at the response. I think one of the many things that most learn in the service is, 'don't sweat the small stuff'.
BTW, ready for the Marines or not, Thank You for your service to our country.


I didn't really get offended, just exasperated. More than once I've had to explain that it's simply a competition between branches. People that are growing up in a society that tries to level the playing field by rewarding mediocrity aren't accustomed to a fierce competitive drive and the benefits you can derive from it.

And rest assured, I've got two former Marines that I work closely with, and they give just as good I give. One particular favorite is what soldiers and bananas have in common: they're both picked green, turn yellow, and die in bunches.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:15:01 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Steven

I think the GI bill is great...although it was a little different back in the 60's I believe. I am not talking about doing away with the GI bill in any way I want to augment it.



Indeed it is very different. They've expanded it quite a lot, covering more areas of education, giving a veteran more options on where to apply the money.




This could be my problem...I am going by the 1969 system...lol But i still think it is a good idea that would save money..Guess I am just alone as usual..lol

Butch


I think the main roadblock would be that it would be viewed as redundant, because a lot of what you've suggested is already built into the GI Bill program.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:22:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		One more shot...by the way when I was in the Corps it was more jarheads against swabbies.

OK how is it redundant... you are paying for expensive training for the last six months...then on top of that they utilize the GI plan after discharge...more money spent on training twice the amount then under my plan for some anyway.

Now on my plan the last six months of expensive training is saved and used for much less expensive vocational training. Then when they leave the service they immediately have employment and no need to use the expensive GI Benefit programs.

No brainier to me but many say that is my problem...brains that is.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:25:31 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

One more shot...by the way when I was in the Corps it was more jarheads against swabbies.

OK how is it redundant... you are paying for expensive training for the last six months...then on top of that they utilize the GI plan after discharge...more money spent on training twice the amount then under my plan for some anyway.

Now on my plan the last six months of expensive training is saved and used for much less expensive vocational training. Then when they leave the service they immediately have employment and no need to use the expensive GI Benefit programs.

No brainier to me but many say that is my problem...brains that is.

Butch



I'm not saying it IS redundant, just that it would appear so, and probably be argued down as such. There is merit in your idea. Would it be applied the same way for those going into the Reserves or National Guard?

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:32:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, off the top of my head, but only if they were called up into regular service. But I need to think on this more

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:33:05 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes, off the top of my head, but only if they were called up into regular service. But I need to think on this more

Butch



But what about those that are transitioning from active duty INTO the reserves or guard?

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:34:17 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

We already have something a hell of a lot better than that, KD.  It's called the GI Bill.  They'll send you a nice little check every month for years. 

Besides, serving an enlistment and collecting an honorable discharge, already guarantees you have some serious job skills sadly lacking in so many applicants.  The ability to be on the job, on time, ready to go.  A willingness to bust ass without whining, to get dirty, and put the job first.  Those alone can carry you far.

I suppose someone who wants to write an article can find whatever they want among veterans.  We are a diverse lot.  For every guy who came out of infantry, with a drinking problem and can't get a job, there is a guy from artillery who got a bachelors in something marketable without accumulating any student loan debt.  I can only guess at what the author of what you were reading wanted to say in his piece.


Yep, just a couple off the top of my head.  My Uncle came back from Vietnam, turned his GI Bill into an Electrical Engineering degree.  My sister-in-law's brother was in the marines,  went into the reserves after his enlistment to attend college, was called up and served in Iraq.  He is finishing up his degree on his GI Bill.


my Husband is a mechanical engineer because of the G.I. bill. He graduated magna cum laude from old dominion university, while working full time in the nuclear engineering dept, of a local shipyard. He received his bachelors degree,  the same year our two youngest graduated high school in 2004. We were, and are very proud of his accomplishment.


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Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/26/2009 4:34:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes any regular duty soldiers should have access to the plan.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/27/2009 9:38:41 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		From what I understand, most regular duty folks aren't coming back and going straight to civilian life.  What happens is that they go back to their next duty station and go back to their job within the States doing what they were doing before they were deployed. 

Where this gets hung up are those folks who became active duty from branches of service such as the Reserves.  For the duration that they are gone, they are on active status and that changes fairly soon after they return.  After demobilization, they are the ones that are headed back to civilian life.  By law, their employer is supposed to have their job, or an equivalent within the same company, available upon their return for them.  That's the part that doesn't tend to work out so well.

Just wanted to throw that information out there for folks to get a clearer picture of the topic.


Edited for punctuation.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 12/27/2009 9:40:03 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/27/2009 9:43:23 AM   
gift4mistress


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline 		In the military they have many opportunities and resources available to them. One of which was mentioned earlier, the GI bill is a great program that allows soldier/sailors/air men to achieve a degree or training in a specific program. Then, you have what is known as TA or tuition assistance which is used for the same thing as the GI but few differences. Also, there are programs out there that give soldier a certificate based on their job which would allow them to do the same thing in the civilian world (I.E. Medical, electrician, etc.). By the way, don't call a marine a soldier; they hate that with a passion.


< Message edited by gift4mistress -- 12/27/2009 9:45:27 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How to REALLY help our soldiers leaving active serv... - 12/27/2009 9:47:12 AM   
gift4mistress


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The Marines are a department of the Navy.


The Mens department!


Jeff


That's funny because you guys are so reliant on the Navy. You know, the corpsman and all.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 40
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