RE: Hard Limits

RE: Hard Limits (Full Version)

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happylittlepet -> RE: Hard Limits (12/29/2009 8:17:16 PM)
Thank you, Merc, for clearing that up. [:)]

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hard Limits (12/29/2009 8:28:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happylittlepet Thank you, Merc, for clearing that up. [:)] No problem happylittlepet! I wasn't being passive (that would be beth's area of expertise) or aggressive - no more than usual anyway. In truth everyone 'submits', or at least they should. Some may see it as a semantic argument in the nature of distinguishing slave from submissive. If you'd like I could take it step further and say I've never been more 'submissive' in my life since having beth as my 'slave'. I submit to our relationship - the true dominant force over both of us.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Hard Limits (12/29/2009 8:32:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Never mind... just read your last post.

happylittlepet -> RE: Hard Limits (12/29/2009 8:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: happylittlepet Thank you, Merc, for clearing that up. [:)] No problem happylittlepet! I wasn't being passive (that would be beth's area of expertise) or aggressive - no more than usual anyway. In truth everyone 'submits', or at least they should. Some may see it as a semantic argument in the nature of distinguishing slave from submissive. If you'd like I could take it step further and say I've never been more 'submissive' in my life since having beth as my 'slave'. I submit to our relationship - the true dominant force over both of us. This is a key to happiness. This makes me smile. [:)] I hope many read this.

wisdomtogive -> RE: Hard Limits (12/30/2009 4:00:56 AM)
Thank you, Merc for clearing this up. When I first read your post, I never gave it a second thought. Upon going through the thread again and seeing a question on your view, i needed to ask. Always respected both you and beth, so that is why i apologize in the post, if i was wrong. Glad i was wrong:) wisdom

Elizabeth666 -> RE: Hard Limits (12/30/2009 5:04:40 AM)
FR In my opinion, you were in the right, and still are. Regardless of the type of relationship you're in, if someone is pushing you to do something you DO NOT want to do and they don't respect your "No" then they aren't worth the time. But especially in this dynamic. I have hard limits and i had what I thought were hard limits. Those ones I decided on my own that I wanted to push and Sir was more than happy to do them (They were things that He had done in the past, so it was easy for Him. We did talk about it beforehand) The actual hard limits? Hell no, I will never do them and He doesn't try to push those.

aldompdx -> RE: Hard Limits (12/30/2009 7:28:09 PM)
I find it rather pathetic how some attempt to redefine the term "limit" by qualifying it as absolute, hard, medium, soft, etc. A limit is not a penis! A limit is just that, a non-negotiable limit and boundary not to be crossed -- PERIOD. Something short of a limit may be a preference subject to negotiation. Whether you choose to remain involved with a partner who chooses to ignore your limits depends upon how masochistic or self destructive you are.

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (12/30/2009 7:32:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx I find it rather pathetic how some attempt to redefine the term "limit" by qualifying it as absolute, hard, medium, soft, etc. A limit is not a penis! A limit is just that, a non-negotiable limit and boundary not to be crossed -- PERIOD. Something short of a limit may be a preference subject to negotiation. Whether you choose to remain involved with a partner who chooses to ignore your limits depends upon how masochistic or self destructive you are. limits are flexible by all the subbies that want them pushed beside how do you know you've reached a limit unless you cross it, it's rather uncertain you know

ceebee -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 9:20:25 PM)
Anyone who doesn't respect your limits, doesn't respect you . End of discussion. Nudging them to see just how hard they are is one thing, but something that needs to be done slowly and controlled, and stopped when asked. Forcing and accusing someone of being fake when they can't do it is just being an asshole.

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 9:44:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ceebee Anyone who doesn't respect your limits, doesn't respect you . End of discussion. Nudging them to see just how hard they are is one thing, but something that needs to be done slowly and controlled, and stopped when asked. Forcing and accusing someone of being fake when they can't do it is just being an asshole. where's the submission in there? i don't see any

LafayetteLady -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 9:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: ceebee Anyone who doesn't respect your limits, doesn't respect you . End of discussion. Nudging them to see just how hard they are is one thing, but something that needs to be done slowly and controlled, and stopped when asked. Forcing and accusing someone of being fake when they can't do it is just being an asshole. where's the submission in there? i don't see any You are 100% correct, there is NO submission there at all. Why? Because the dominant is breaking the rules set out by the participants, consent is removed and submission ceases to exist. Even in a community where "no" might be part of play, there is a point where "no" does indeed mean NO. At that point I wouldn't even call the person an asshole, because at that point they are moving into "assault."

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 10:04:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: ceebee Anyone who doesn't respect your limits, doesn't respect you . End of discussion. Nudging them to see just how hard they are is one thing, but something that needs to be done slowly and controlled, and stopped when asked. Forcing and accusing someone of being fake when they can't do it is just being an asshole. where's the submission in there? i don't see any You are 100% correct, there is NO submission there at all. Why? Because the dominant is breaking the rules set out by the participants, consent is removed and submission ceases to exist. Even in a community where "no" might be part of play, there is a point where "no" does indeed mean NO. At that point I wouldn't even call the person an asshole, because at that point they are moving into "assault." under those circumstances it was just kink and fun from the get go, never was d/s

Lashra -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 10:30:38 PM)
quote: Was i in the right to leave the situation? i was told i was selfish for not giving in, but someone had to look out for me. You were correct, a hard limit is a HARD limit and not one to be crossed because it will cause damage to the submissive in some way. You were told that you were selfish as a guilt trip, do not fall for it. Your right you do have to look out for you, because not all Dominants will. I have a rule for my sub to follow that comes before anything else: Protect yourself always even from ME. Good luck and I hope that you find the right Dominant for you. ~Lashra

ceebee -> RE: Hard Limits (1/4/2010 11:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: ceebee Anyone who doesn't respect your limits, doesn't respect you . End of discussion. Nudging them to see just how hard they are is one thing, but something that needs to be done slowly and controlled, and stopped when asked. Forcing and accusing someone of being fake when they can't do it is just being an asshole. where's the submission in there? i don't see any Let me spell this out for you, and maybe you'll get it. The dominant man thing likes to verbal play at times, hot nasty fantasy discussions about what he's going to make me do while we're playing. A couple of topics came up- to one I said "Ya know, i can verbally play with this, it's OK, but in real life it's just a line I'm not going to cross. this other one, well, just SQUICK and I really have a hard time with even verbal play about it." His answer? "No problem, babe. Cause on the first I wouldn't ask to do that anyway. And there's LOTs of things we can play with that don't involve the second." How does that make me not submissive? I consider it just clearing the air. And because he's a dom, and not an asshole, he respected that. It's a win-win-win situation- he still gets to play with hot little nasty fantasies that turn him on, people like you don't have to wonder if Grandmas nurse is distracted by a dildo up her ass and a clit clip, and not banging myself in the patient rooms while they're circling the drain goes a long ways towards me keeping my license. Just like I'm quite sure I'll never be stripped searched next to the side of the road and thrown handcuffed and naked into a cruiser, no matter how much he likes to talk about it. Being able to distinguish between fun fantasy and reality is an important character trait in a Dom. Repsecting limits is another. Remember- if it ain't working for BOTH people, it ain't working.

aldompdx -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 1:10:35 AM)
quote: osf: how do you know you've reached a limit unless you cross it Death is the ultimate limit. Perhaps you contend it is necessary for you to find where it is, by crossing it? If it is a preference with flexibility, then it is not a limit. The narcissistic delusion is that the role of the controller is to change limits. Under the fundamental BDSM tenet of ongoing consent, only the surrendered holds power to change their limits.

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 5:48:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx quote: osf: how do you know you've reached a limit unless you cross it Death is the ultimate limit. Perhaps you contend it is necessary for you to find where it is, by crossing it? If it is a preference with flexibility, then it is not a limit. The narcissistic delusion is that the role of the controller is to change limits. Under the fundamental BDSM tenet of ongoing consent, only the surrendered holds power to change their limits. can you say "rational" some relationships don't operate on the basis of limits, in the since the word is commonly used here

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 5:57:59 AM)
In the beginning phases of a d/s relationship the word “limits” often comes up usually in that she states her limits, which to me affects the authority dynamic from the git go. I prefer getting to know her and her basic needs then granting her limits I will uphold, that establishes my authority from the start.

Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 6:09:46 AM)
It also establishes whether or not she would continue into a relationship with you. If you choose not to 'grant' one of her limits, she may well choose not to grant you anything. You don't get to choose people's limits. You only get to choose whether or not their limits are compatible with yours. ETA: Over the course of a long, trusting relationship, the one who had a limit previously may choose to attempt overcoming that limit, however, if you choose the appropriate person that limit would be one you'd likely enforce and wouldn't let them compromise it to begin with.

thedavezone -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 6:12:50 AM)
You were absolutely correct. As a sub and not a slave you have the right to establish limits. (Slavery is more of a grey area, [I can almost feel objections to this statement coming], but a true slave is just that). Even as a slave you can still leave - you are a human being after all.

osf -> RE: Hard Limits (1/5/2010 6:12:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz It also establishes whether or not she would continue into a relationship with you. If you choose not to 'grant' one of her limits, she may well choose not to grant anything with you. You don't get to choose people's limits. You only get to choose whether or not their limits are compatible with yours. OR I MAY NOT ACCEPT HER LIMITS works both ways your way assumes i'm desperate

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