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RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:17:18 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Due to sub drop in casual play where I have no significant other and with the other depressants in my life, I have chosen not to play as whatever is going on that may cause depression, the chemical up and downs can be too much at times. I havent played since the summer just trying to stabalize my emotions.

Though I am doubtful that the male chemical adrenal makeup would be the same as a woman, so Im not sure if the moods swings that women already experience from menses, perimenopuse and menopause exists in men to the same degree? I could be wrong.

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RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:23:47 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline 		BTW- Why wasn't this thread posted in Ask a Submissive section? 

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RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:28:05 AM   
MsThornRose


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/12/2008
Status: offline 		I think it depends on the submissive male. Some are more emotional than others. However, I dont think they feel it as keanly as women do.

Thats only my opinion based on what my sub tells me.

MsThornRose.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:36:16 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

BTW- Why wasn't this thread posted in Ask a Submissive section? 


Some topics, I believe, have more than one viewpoint.  While a male submissive might bring his own unique experience in this area, a female Dominant may have experienced this phenomenon in multiple instances.

Either way, the thread is quite good.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 2:06:51 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I missed this comment earlier and it was too good not to go a bit further on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I"m not a psychologist or a physician so I can just take an educated guess at it. I would have to say they felt it because it was caused by some chemical in their brains. Perhaps once some subs are not in the presence of the person who provides them with the most enhanced emotions, they tend to drop and go into sub frenzy. Is it real? Yes of course it is real, but I do not think it is caused by solely by sexual denial. I think it is because we Dominants get very much into the minds of our submissives and we can become like a drug to them. Once that "drug" is taken away the brain chemicals that have been stimulated, lessen or cease and the sub "drops". That is the best way that I can describe it.
Some of the fears are unrealistic but the symptom caused by them are very real. Depression, mood swings, almost maniac behavior in some. Sub frenzy can be a dangerous thing for a sub and it has to be dealt with as a very real "illness".

~Lashra

Masochists, it's been argued, process pain differently in play situations.  They interpret pain differently than others.  Chenically in the brain, when the rush of endorphins floods the pleasure receptors, that is the 'high' that many people refer to as sub space.

Here's the interesting part.  Guess what else does that?  Synthetic drugs are one, sex is another, and adrenaline from exercise is a third.  All of these produce the same kind of 'high' that many describe they feel during space.  (By the way, space isn't only an experience that is felt by submissives/bottoms.  It happens to tops, too.)

So, in that category (masochists) you have someone who is craving that high they get from the rush of endorphins (space) and very much like other types of highs, the obsession of obtaining it becomes greater and greater.  It builds and builds, and as shown by the earlier definition of the word, "frenzy" is an absolutely accurate description.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 2:19:10 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

I think some of them come pre-loaded with a version of sub frenzy, yes. That desire to latch on to any dominant female, claim a "relationship" when all you have had is a casual conversation, saying I WANT TO SERVE to all and sundry... yeah, I call that frenzy. Or selfishness, or objectification of women. I think it's also a chance for men to have some nasty experiences for the sake of having ANY experiences.


I know the kind. And all they want is the Domme side of you without wanting the rest. I usually don't let it get to me. There have been times however where it has really discouraged me.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 2:56:36 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam
BTW- Why wasn't this thread posted in Ask a Submissive section? 


The name of the forum is loosely interpreted and some people view this forum also as a space for Fm discussions. Case in point, I have not gone to the other forums in quite some time.

As for sub frenzy, I think this thread shows that the term is loosely interpreted. Some interpretations have hinted at an engaged submissive state, or at subspace. Some interpretations have pointed to a state of anxiety or desperation to fulfill submissive needs. Recently I saw another person use sub frenzy to describe the phenomenon of a submissive very quickly falling in love with a domme with whom he began to talk or share a D/s dynamic.

I interpret sub frenzy per the second definition: a state of anxiety or desperation to fulfill submissive needs.

Thank you to Lady Pact for mentioning my prior posts with kind words. Here is a prior discussion that discusses the components of a submissive's psychology.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2599148/mpage_4/tm.htm

A point to add is that unmet needs become greater in priority and can lead to other needs to be temporarily set aside. Thus, unfulfilled masochistic and submissive needs can create that state of desperation to meet these needs. Indeed one can set aside good judgment to fulfill these needs.

As for some submissives readily jumping into a D/s relationship with the first person who allows it, I recall seeing a term on these forums to refer to the Fm ratio: demographic-induced desperation. I think there is also room for another term: demographic-induced attraction. In some cases at least, the submissive is not consciously thinking that he wants his needs met and even though this person is not what he seeks, he will compromise and do it any way. There is, in fact, an attraction at that time. Part of attraction comes from how people make us feel and what response they create in us. Perhaps the ability to provide something that he desires or to have a relationship he seeks is creating a temporary attraction but there is indeed an attraction at that time. The idea is similar to how one might feel love towards and wish to marry a person where part or much of this wish comes from their love for the idea of marriage itself.

I think this attraction is being driven primarily by one component: the masochistic component. When this need is met, the other components come back into the picture and might change the attraction felt.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Underumam)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 3:41:51 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I missed this comment earlier and it was too good not to go a bit further on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I"m not a psychologist or a physician so I can just take an educated guess at it. I would have to say they felt it because it was caused by some chemical in their brains. Perhaps once some subs are not in the presence of the person who provides them with the most enhanced emotions, they tend to drop and go into sub frenzy. Is it real? Yes of course it is real, but I do not think it is caused by solely by sexual denial. I think it is because we Dominants get very much into the minds of our submissives and we can become like a drug to them. Once that "drug" is taken away the brain chemicals that have been stimulated, lessen or cease and the sub "drops". That is the best way that I can describe it.
Some of the fears are unrealistic but the symptom caused by them are very real. Depression, mood swings, almost maniac behavior in some. Sub frenzy can be a dangerous thing for a sub and it has to be dealt with as a very real "illness".

~Lashra

Masochists, it's been argued, process pain differently in play situations.  They interpret pain differently than others.  Chenically in the brain, when the rush of endorphins floods the pleasure receptors, that is the 'high' that many people refer to as sub space.

Here's the interesting part.  Guess what else does that?  Synthetic drugs are one, sex is another, and adrenaline from exercise is a third.  All of these produce the same kind of 'high' that many describe they feel during space.  (By the way, space isn't only an experience that is felt by submissives/bottoms.  It happens to tops, too.)

So, in that category (masochists) you have someone who is craving that high they get from the rush of endorphins (space) and very much like other types of highs, the obsession of obtaining it becomes greater and greater.  It builds and builds, and as shown by the earlier definition of the word, "frenzy" is an absolutely accurate description.



Seems both ladies are describing a prescription for addiction. We are at the mercy of our pleasure receptors. I would haave to agree to that. And I especially agree with the notion of manic obsession when in need. I can testify to that. Whoa Nelly! And when the high becomes unbearable depression follows. Actually, it sneaks up unheralded. Oddly for me, depression arrives even in the midst of frenzied activity. Wtf. Everything is going well but there is too much sensory input....sensory overload. Maybe I cannot produce endorphins quickly enough or my endorphin reuptake system is bonkers. But there it is. I am having a hell of a good time and suddenly despair. I feel like such an odd duck. guess I am. But what the hell. It's a marvelous dance.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 3:50:53 PM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

BTW- Why wasn't this thread posted in Ask a Submissive section? 


Some topics, I believe, have more than one viewpoint.  While a male submissive might bring his own unique experience in this area, a female Dominant may have experienced this phenomenon in multiple instances.

Either way, the thread is quite good.



I agree....it's very good.....


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 4:02:45 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_2820517/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2820517

This aint hallucination, this is real.

Lotta stories like this in the big city.
I am happy to say this life was saved, he got some friends.

Ron(ne)

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 4:19:38 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2820517/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2820517

This aint hallucination, this is real.

Lotta stories like this in the big city.
I am happy to say this life was saved, he got some friends.

Ron(ne)

Oh gosh!!! Poor thing! He must of been one happy little jizzer that first night though! Ha ha!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 4:23:12 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Panda sorta looked out for him. Cuz thats the sort of Panda he is.

But the reality is it happens to men and women, subs and doms , Tvs, Cds, gay, bisexual, straight laced and yes, even vanillas, alike. and if I left anyone out, the error is entirely mine. (but not intentional).

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 5:38:15 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"


Sounds like a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor. lol



_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 6:37:24 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"


Sounds like a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor. lol




Oh, I gave you a laugh, sweetsub. Does my heart good.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:39:07 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I was about to add that in My experience, sub frenzy aka sub fever, is neither gender nor age specific! Males, females, older and younger, can all fall prey to that desperate desire to be "doing it" that can lead to a dangerous suspension of judgement. Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Maam Jay aka violet[A]


"Desire to be doing it"-- That's a catchy way of describing it!

I wonder if sub frenzy eases down a little when a submissive gets some social contact with dominant women, even if it's only online or platonic contact? I personally find a dominant presence, even one I am not involved with sexually, to have a calming effect.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:41:51 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"


ROFL! That sounds like a Tasty Teaze "flavor of the month."

(Tasty Teaze? Where did that come from? Hmm, I wonder if sub frenzy is catching? :/ )

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:43:18 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"


Sounds like a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor. lol


Yes, it's very cute. :D So what would the bdsm flaver be.? Peppermint Patty sounds a bit mild... ;)

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/29/2009 9:48:08 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

BTW- Why wasn't this thread posted in Ask a Submissive section? 


Because I wanted to hear about dominant women's as well as sub men's opinions and observations about this and what better place to find them gathered together than here.

And also because it didn't occur to me? ;) Seriously, even if it had occurred to me, I wouldn't have put it there, as I didn't want it to drift too much into the sub woman's experience of this state. I already know about that. I'm curious about the sub men.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to Underumam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/30/2009 12:45:49 AM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"


Sounds like a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor. lol


Yes, it's very cute. :D So what would the bdsm flaver be.? Peppermint Patty sounds a bit mild... ;)

How about "sadistic swirl?"  French vanilla with pecans in it and ribbons of fudge and caramel swirled throughout.....mmmmm, yummy.  Or maybe "bondage brownie," rich chocolate with brownie chunks held captive in it.....  Maybe even "licorice whip" and have it taste like black licorice.  Damn, now I'm getting hungry for ice cream......

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Do Sub Men Experience Sub Frenzy? - 12/30/2009 6:39:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Have also seen a slightly different version in vanillas ... the desperate and dateless types ... it's just assumed to be less dangerous as they're probably not so likely to be bound and beaten ... well, not with their consent anyway! (Is it REALLY less dangerous though?)

Yes!!  I've seen it too.  Hey, maybe we could call that one "vanilla craze......"



Sounds like a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor. lol


Yes, it's very cute. :D So what would the bdsm flaver be.? Peppermint Patty sounds a bit mild... ;)

How about "sadistic swirl?"  French vanilla with pecans in it and ribbons of fudge and caramel swirled throughout.....mmmmm, yummy.  Or maybe "bondage brownie," rich chocolate with brownie chunks held captive in it.....  Maybe even "licorice whip" and have it taste like black licorice.  Damn, now I'm getting hungry for ice cream......


*smiles* In addition perhaps "peachy paddles" being peach flavored cream with two long flat strips of vanilla chocolate as "paddles." Paddles are yummy. lol

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 60
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