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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 6:44:40 PM   
thornhappy


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Dammit.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The Airforce called. They said they want their reputation back...


quote:

Lost Couple Can't Blame GPS, Air Force Says

The U.S. Air Force wants to set the record straight: Neither aging GPS satellites nor a weak GPS signal were responsible for an elderly couple getting stranded in the woods for several days after following directions in their GPS-enabled SUV.

Some news reports of the couple's adventure were accompanied by headlines such as "GPS Strands Couple and Then Saves Them: Aging Satellites?"

Writing under the Twitter username @AFSpace, AFSPC said: "While we do not want to speculate on what caused the couple to get stuck in the snow; the cause was not due to the GPS signal."

AFSPC spokesperson Toni Tones said the current GPS constellation is the most capable in the history of the program. "Since the inception of us putting it up in 1995, it has exceeded our performance requirements, and we are very proud to offer this service to the general public," Tones told LiveScience.

Tones declined to speculate about why the Rhoads were stranded, but expressed confidence that it wasn't due to the satellites. "All I can say is that the signals that are coming down are very strong and healthy," she said, "so I would have to defer those kinds of questions to [manufacturers] such as Garmin and others that are providing the GPS devices."

That's because even though AFSPC operates the GPS satellites that emit the signal that consumer GPS devices use, they do not create or update the maps that run on the devices, and they are not involved in calculating the routes between destinations.




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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 7:22:03 PM   
Sanity


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The setup we used last summer was slightly odd, it was a hand held Garmin E-Trex GPS receiver that was communicating with my laptop, which in turn was running one of two different mapping programs. We  had the DeLorme program for highway and turn-by-turn city navigation that I mentioned earlier in the thread, and we also had detailed National Geographic topographical mapping software which has incredible detail about the desert and mountain terrain that was all around us for most of our journey.

I preprogrammed the entire route into my laptop before leaving Idaho and it worked really well, except for that little misadventure we experienced up by Crater Lake. And it didn't tell us when we had arrived at the Hyatt Hotel in San Francisco as I expected, either. Once we got there it simply had me proceed on past it to our next preprogrammed destination, which was a campground in the Redwoods - and so we drove right past our hotel.

We knew something was up when we rounded a corner and were confronted by the Golden Gate Bridge... but that was still fun. We enjoyed getting a little bit lost and having an impromptu tour of Chinatown as well as some of San Francisco's famously steep roads.

In all, because it can be very difficult to read a map while driving and a computerized navigation system can be a great help, as long as you learn it before using it and you watch it very closely for errors.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/31/2009 7:24:21 PM >

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 7:28:28 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its not the GPS that will fail you, it always knows where it is. Its the mapping software that will get you, which mine was a DeLorme product, and it should have been reliable because DeLorme knows mapping.

I had a good atlas and I do know how to navigate, but Central Oregon is essentially a vast wilderness and the roads are poorly marked and easily confusing, especially at night. There are a very few one-horse villages here and there which close up their one gas station / general store around nightfall, and its illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon - so if you take the wrong road at night in that part of the world you can really be screwed.

Its that need for gasoline that kind of makes you stick with the direction you pick even if you begin suspecting you're going the wrong way because you know that odds are, eventually you will come upon a gas pump in almost any direction you go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

It's got to be said that if Apple, IBM, Nokia or some other company came up with a product called a Brain I might just give it a whirl.

Until that time I'm quite happy to continue thinking and using my brain enhanced and supported by (and not replaced by) the technology available.

To me GPS, Satnav, etc is just like a computer, a camera, it's a tool, and using a tool requires thinking.




Get a good protractor compass to orient a map…some USGS maps… learn how to read them and with a little skill you will never get lost.

Butch


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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 7:37:21 PM   
Sanity


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You get those at the same place you buy your covered wagons do ya, or do you have to get those down ta the tradin' post.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Get a good protractor compass to orient a map…some USGS maps… learn how to read them and with a little skill you will never get lost.

Butch



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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 7:56:12 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Its not the GPS that will fail you, it always knows where it is.


Not if it can't locate a satelite it doesn't. It's electronic too, so it is subject to interference and atmospheric conditions.

Pirate

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 7:57:25 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You get those at the same place you buy your covered wagons do ya, or do you have to get those down ta the tradin' post.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Get a good protractor compass to orient a map…some USGS maps… learn how to read them and with a little skill you will never get lost.

Butch




HERE...I've never been lost..I use a GPS for many reasons as well but you should always know how to use a map and compass...it could save Rush's life.

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 8:04:50 PM   
Sanity


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Paper maps are primitive. Here:

http://www.natgeomaps.com/topo.html

Load up your laptop, enjoy having every map there is at your fingertips, and print out only what you need at whatever scale your heart desires.

And if you've never been lost then you're not trying nearly hard enough...


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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 8:07:15 PM   
Sanity


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You cut out essential context which was essentially, between the mapping software and the GPS itself, its the mapping software that will make the error.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Its not the GPS that will fail you, it always knows where it is.


Not if it can't locate a satelite it doesn't. It's electronic too, so it is subject to interference and atmospheric conditions.

Pirate



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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 8:28:53 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Really...lol that software is to print PAPER maps to be used with a compass....lol

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 8:38:58 PM   
Sanity


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Actually.... you can download all the maps you'll need from your laptop onto your handheld GPS. Your GPS also has a compass feature that always shows true north, and its got a lot of other really neat features as well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Really...lol that software is to print PAPER maps to be used with a compass....lol


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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 8:44:28 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		And this, boys and girls is why I will always rely on a map for travel outside the city...GPS is fine for in-city directions, but it simply cannot beat an old-fashioned map for travel in the boonies. But then again I am a map-geek and simply love the things, they are just so cool.

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 9:24:12 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You cut out essential context which was essentially, between the mapping software and the GPS itself, its the mapping software that will make the error.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Its not the GPS that will fail you, it always knows where it is.


Not if it can't locate a satelite it doesn't. It's electronic too, so it is subject to interference and atmospheric conditions.

Pirate




Nope ... a GPS cannot know where it is without a satelite fix ... which is cutting out fuck all.

Pirate

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 9:31:53 PM   
Sanity


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You pretty much have to be in a cave or under concrete to lose your satellites though. Read the Air Force article I posted above, the signals are good and strong and there are plenty of GPS satellites afloat for your GPS to choose from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

Nope ... a GPS cannot know where it is without a satelite fix ... which is cutting out fuck all.

Pirate



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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 9:47:31 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You pretty much have to be in a cave or under concrete to lose your satellites though.


Or ... possibly ... amongst the hi de hi scrapers and such in a big ole city where your average GPS user needs one to respond rather more quickly than they often do.

Or ... possibly ... in inclement and or extreme weather JUST when you need to rely on it.

Don't get on my back ... I use and have used these aids and will continue to do so ... but I know that they are just that ... aids. It ain't fair to NOT point out that (just as maps go out of date) they're fallible and should NOT be followed with 100% confidence. That's all.

Pirate

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 10:24:51 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Status: offline 		I used to have GPS in my old phone, can't afford it anymore. I'm one of those people who gets lost pretty easily without clear instructions. I LOVED my GPS. That isn't to say that it was infallible either. When the man was looking for a house, we would plug in the address and follow along and several times there was no house where it took us. Although we were on the right road in the right town, so maybe it wasn't the GPS. Some places around here are a little strange when it comes to addresses and stuff. On the other hand, one of the really big benefits is that I don't have to read it, it tells me where to go. I am not really able to read without reading glasses, and at night, wouldn't be able to see shit on the map at all. Then of course there are the people who will read their map while driving, which is wonderfully safe, no?

Guess everyone needs to use what they are most comfortable with in the end.

And Toyotas do not come with ONSTAR. That is a GM product.

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 10:52:31 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Sheesh! Don't they teach kids in school how to read MAPS anymore?

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 12/31/2009 11:48:10 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy



Nope ... a GPS cannot know where it is without a satelite fix ... which is cutting out fuck all.

Pirate




The new ones can guess approx location by the cellphone part of your gps ( google maps use it for example)
But the standalone applications don't.

I tried to navigate once in BArcelona. With the hight buildingd and the narrow streets, couldn't even been see by satelites. Took me 6 hours to get back to the hotel.
That is what you get when you can't ask directions in spanish..lol.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 12/31/2009 11:49:49 PM >

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 1/1/2010 5:15:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		In Pittsburgh, there are a couple of roads for the exclusive use of the transit system, clearly marked.. For Buses Only... guess where the gps systems send people! and guess who is waiting to "greet" these misguided folks!

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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 1/1/2010 7:18:17 AM   
Sanity


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They might, in Steamship Pilot school, or the Injun Scout Academy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sheesh! Don't they teach kids in school how to read MAPS anymore?


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RE: Couple stranded 3 days after GPS leads them astray - 1/1/2010 7:19:51 AM   
Sanity


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Skyscrapers do interfere with them, especially when you're in a narrow corridor surrounded by them.


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