RE: Wealthy leaving the United States

RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 4:36:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats a poorly thought out statement, as wealth is obviously mined, grown, manufactured, and so on. If wealth couldn't be made then wealth would not exist. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead You can't make wealth. That's the big problem with fiscal systems, it's only possible to move money around instead of inventing it from scratch. If wealth represented the stuff that was mined, grown or manufactured, that would be true. Sadly it represents the value attached to bits of paper instead.

DarkSteven -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 4:37:34 PM)
Agreed. Wealth is natural resources and human resources, marshaled to produce goods and services. As an extreme example, had Apple not pioneered the personal computer (and assuming nobody else had), we would all have fewer things in our lives. quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats a poorly thought out statement, as wealth is obviously mined, grown, manufactured, and so on. If wealth couldn't be made then wealth would not exist. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead You can't make wealth. That's the big problem with fiscal systems, it's only possible to move money around instead of inventing it from scratch. quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Who cares? Let them leave. They don't pay any taxes anyway. I don't mean that literally, I mean they don't pay enough taxes and if they don't want to pay their fair share, they can leave, I don't care. Brain, take a look at what has happened when countries nationalized after a coup, such as Cuba and South Africa. The countries' leadership assumed control of industry and invariably failed miserably. You're implying that the captains of industry contribute nothing to the economy except for taxes on their incomes. I'm not certain that you're wrong, but the assumption cannot simply be blithely passed over.

mnottertail -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 4:44:12 PM)
the word that may be overused here is create. in the end we really mean transform.

AnimusRex -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 6:01:01 PM)
fr- OK, so I will take the bait- where is this capitalist paradise they are emigrating to? Presumably one that has lower taxes, and yet an economy that affords them the same wealth-generating possibilities as the US? And why now? Marginal income tax rates have been declining in America for about 30 years. The CEO of Goldman Sachs pays less now than he did in 1980, and less than his secretary. So why would he and his friends flounce out the door in a huff? Or is this just an overblown exaggeration without any real statistics to back it up?

submittous -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 7:27:17 PM)
The people who were hiding their money in foreign accounts and are now afraid of the 'open book' policies started by Bush to stop them are not the super wealthy... the super wealthy have the power to not pay taxes by controlling the government not by breaking the law. Blaming Obama and the current administration just shows you didn't know where this program came from... Thinking these criminals and thieves are somehow important to the US economy is silly. Crooks have always been around and seldom been important. Why would the truly wealthy change citizenship?, they own the government here and really have nothing to fear since as demonstrated by a lot of posts here have serfs to defend them.

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 7:33:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex Or is this just an overblown exaggeration without any real statistics to back it up? I found this article when I was trying to track changes in investment capital worldwide. I'm having real difficulty finding good numbers either on the wealthy leaving the country or on investment capital moving overseas. If I find some real figures I'll certainly put them up.

AnimusRex -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 7:47:39 PM)
I suspect the number of wealthy John Galts leaving the country is about the same number as the liberal movie stars who emigrated to Canada because Bush won; that is, zero. But it makes for a good sound bite or bon mot tossed off at the country club.

DarkSteven -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 8:16:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex fr- OK, so I will take the bait- where is this capitalist paradise they are emigrating to? Presumably one that has lower taxes, and yet an economy that affords them the same wealth-generating possibilities as the US? And why now? Marginal income tax rates have been declining in America for about 30 years. The CEO of Goldman Sachs pays less now than he did in 1980, and less than his secretary. So why would he and his friends flounce out the door in a huff? This might simply be a case of ascribing a trend to a cause. Expatriate communities are nothing new. US expatriates might simply be going to Mexico in increasing numbers due to things like baby boomers hitting retirement age, the US economic crunch making living south of the border more attractive, etc. It could have nothing to do with tax rates.

pahunkboy -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/29/2009 11:53:10 PM)
massive capital has left since 911. , As you know I follow Bob Chapman. It is not just the super wealthy- but there is a segment of others leaving as well. I dont think it is necessary to leave. There is plenty of regions in the US that could suit. Some say a 3rd major war is imminent. Not counting US major cities- one is likely safer here then most anywhere....

popeye1250 -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 12:25:23 AM)
I hope they all leave! Then we declare bankruptcy and their money is worthless and we start a new currency and don't let any non-us citizens in the country. Muah haha!

Aneirin -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 12:34:01 AM)
It is the same over here, there are many Britons leaving for Canada, New Zealand and Australia, all my pals from when I was a kid now live in Australia, they took their businesses there. The reason they say, better lifestyle and more hope of a better future for their kids. But what does irk me on these forums, is why when something is mentioned, does it always seem the conversation degenerates into a right versus left or republican versus conservatives slanging match. Does it never occur that whilst there are people warring over political allegiences, attention is being taken off the bigger picture. The past, is the past, it is gone, deal with the now and hopefully in the future we might not make the same mistakes as the past.

pahunkboy -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 12:45:34 AM)
that is true, it detracts from the bigger picture-

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 8:49:39 AM)
These Rich people better move quick because the net is closing on international tax havens, the money they move there will not be of any use anywhere else. I don’t mind people moving as long as they realise it’s a one way trip and they can’t exist in both places in some quasi state. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-tax-havens This kind of thing annoys me more; someone that wants to help shape UK law but not be a part of it when it comes to paying tax: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6730311.stm The tax status of this peer is still unknown to this day as I watched an adjournment debate regarding the freedom of information act just before Christmas where this came up again.

Moonhead -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 9:02:38 AM)
Tony Blair's found a completely bombproof loophole to hide his assets in, hasn't he? The little shit.

Aneirin -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 4:16:01 PM)
Interestingly though, the wealthy leaving the US, and the UK, both are places people emigrated to for a better life, could it be the US has just become yet another stepping stone in world migration. If so people are migrating away from the US, is this indicating that the US is no longer great, there are better countries to be in, and possibly allied to. It has long been held that Australia is condemning of the UKs immigration and so called asylum process, because it believes once a person has a British Passport, it leaves it open for that person to then move where life is known to be better, Australia. Our lax approach to the subject, is forcing Oz to adopt stricter controls on UK immigration. I believe also that Oz is not only a target for the economic migrant, but the US also. All this begs the question, have we got it wrong about the various countries of the world, they not countries in reality, but better opportunities for the savvy, perhaps the notion of nationality is outdated and largely redundant, it is just that the majority cannot see that because we have people in power who profit from maintaining allegiance to themselves. People do still hide behind flags, banners and interpretations of history.

rockspider -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/30/2009 5:10:56 PM)
The rich now too[8\|] I heard it was the hookers who was leaving the USA. The dollar not worth a fuck any more[:D]

thompsonx -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/31/2009 7:19:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Brain, take a look at what has happened when countries nationalized after a coup, such as Cuba and South Africa. The countries' leadership assumed control of industry and invariably failed miserably. Perhaps you might want to validate that statement. Wasn't there a coup including nationalization in Russia? worlds 8th largest economy. Wasnt there a coup in China including nationalization? Worlds 4th largest economy. Didn't the worlds most powerful country embargo Cuba? Do you think that that may have had an impact on Cuba's economy? And yet Cuba today has a more prosporus economy than before Castro came to power? T,

thompsonx -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/31/2009 7:28:46 PM)
x

thompsonx -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/31/2009 7:42:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: before you chased him out of office I've taken on the blame and responsibility for many things over my life, but being 20 when he was elected, and 24 when he lost; I really can't take take the honor of chasing Carter our of office. No - I'd say his Administration's results or lack of same, along with his experience lacking inept management skills, leaderhip, disjointed programs, and his image of rhetoric over actions doomed him. So the illegal negotiations between Ragun's gang and Iran had nothing to do with it. What a strange world you live in. T.

Musicmystery -> RE: Wealthy leaving the United States (12/31/2009 8:08:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex I suspect the number of wealthy John Galts leaving the country is about the same number as the liberal movie stars who emigrated to Canada because Bush won; that is, zero. But it makes for a good sound bite or bon mot tossed off at the country club. I hear Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are staying...

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