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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 6:59:40 PM

submittous

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Well I think the OP is pretty much right on... and those of you who want to join the million chip players and be 'rich' just need to learn the rules... only one really, just pick your parents wisely and you will be a member of the club, if you aren't born into that class you have a much better chance of being hit by lightning in your living room than getting even partially 'rich'. As the OP said, you can get a few more chips but never approach the power and wealth that today's ruling class is born with.

I think the question he asked was 'will they leave?' and the answer is no, of course not, they own the government and make the laws. Why would they leave?

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 7:21:52 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Another thing, what's the point in soaking the poor?

Soaking the poor is where the big money is. The trick is not to find a way to get one or two big piles of money. The trick is to come up wth a way to take a little money from everyone regularly. When I got my MBA the case study they used as an example was Wrigley's gum. A stupid pack of gum is 25 cents. Costs next to nothing. Millions of people buy a pack of gum every day. The value of the William Wrigley Jr. Company? 23 billion dollars.

You put a $1 surcharge on everyone's phone bill every month. 50 million households have a phone. Suddenly you're making 50 million dollars a month from taxing the little guy. Yes, the rich pay that $1 too, but there are very few rich households and they don't even notice the one dollar. The 49 million poor households need that dollar more and there are so many more of them that suddenly it's big money.

All of the excise taxes, the sales taxes, cell phone fees, ISP fees, the transportation fees, that surcharges, the gasoline taxes, the energy taxes - any of the "consumption based taxes" - are aimed at the poor. Most people have no idea exactly how much it is they're actually paying in taxes, aside from their income tax - and even if you pay no income tax, you're still being taxed.

But, Black, though you make a very good point, is anyone really getting "soaked?" And just what the hell does that mean - "soaked?"

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 10:19:24 PM

subfever

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quote:

This is your last post of 2009?
lol, that means you will be posting again in about 10 hours?
Happy New Year!

LOL... I posted right before I left the house for the evening. Had me a busy NYD too.

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 10:29:58 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

I see the situation in the same manner as you appear to; one cannot play “Monopoly” and hope to gain anything toward humanity.

We were talking, about the love that's gone so cold
And the people, who gain the world and lose their soul
They don't know
They can't see
Are you one of them? ... George Harrison

quote:

Much new hope to you in the new year, Subfever.

Kim

Kisses to you... :-)

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 10:38:33 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I know my views fall on blind eyes and deaf ears for the most part,
If you think your posts fall on deaf ears, try being a socialist on these boards...based on the people on here who are labeled "far left" I must be so far left I have come all the way round to right...

I won't fault you for going around full circle, my friend. After all, isn't going in circles pretty much what most of us do, trapped in the right vs. left paradigm ...

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 10:59:27 PM

subfever

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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrkJourney

quote:

...This is part of why you cannot just "soak the rich". They're smarter and better connected than the people trying to "soak" them. They leave...

quote:

If this is true no one told that Madoff guy. He took a lot of rich and a lot of famous people to the cleaners, everyone that they mentioned on the list that was made public was way beyond "connected" and look how much money they lost, some lost everything....Steven Spielberg is one I remember that was on the list

I hesitate to use the word "rich," since it's so subjective and relative.

Nevertheless, in my humble opinion, anyone under the very top of the food chain can be soaked... as we all witnessed during the Madoff fiasco.

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 11:03:15 PM

subfever

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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Another thing, what's the point in soaking the poor?

Soaking the poor is where the big money is. The trick is not to find a way to get one or two big piles of money. The trick is to come up wth a way to take a little money from everyone regularly. When I got my MBA the case study they used as an example was Wrigley's gum. A stupid pack of gum is 25 cents. Costs next to nothing. Millions of people buy a pack of gum every day. The value of the William Wrigley Jr. Company? 23 billion dollars.

You put a $1 surcharge on everyone's phone bill every month. 50 million households have a phone. Suddenly you're making 50 million dollars a month from taxing the little guy. Yes, the rich pay that $1 too, but there are very few rich households and they don't even notice the one dollar. The 49 million poor households need that dollar more and there are so many more of them that suddenly it's big money.

All of the excise taxes, the sales taxes, cell phone fees, ISP fees, the transportation fees, that surcharges, the gasoline taxes, the energy taxes - any of the "consumption based taxes" - are aimed at the poor. Most people have no idea exactly how much it is they're actually paying in taxes, aside from their income tax - and even if you pay no income tax, you're still being taxed.

Indeed, yes.

Inflation is also a hidden tax upon the people.

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 11:09:02 PM

subfever

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quote:

I believe that Madoff was able to pull off what he did because he was an insider. Everyone knew he was up to something shady, they just thought he was doing insider trading or some other investment scheme that they could benefit from - which is why they all wanted in. How shocking that, instead, he was bilking his clients.

It seems that Madoff's victims were duped by their own greed.

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/1/2010 11:14:19 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

I tend to agree, the best way to keep the poor from becoming some of the rich...is to keep them fighting amongst themselves, the whole divide and conquer thing.

It works in politics just as it does in every other area of life, just look at the health reform, if those "haves" can keep the "haves not" from forming one voice, the "have nots" will always be that way.

money talks and money can buy opinion, tell you what to think and crush you when you start to be a threaten to it.

Amen, brother!

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/2/2010 7:11:35 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

We were talking, about the love that's gone so cold
And the people, who gain the world and lose their soul
They don't know
They can't see
Are you one of them? ... George Harrison

Honor thy dead;
forsake the living.
Cure the sane;
The sick will give in.
Just someone’s dream, this world we live in,
But none brought forth this day.

As long as "we" means me, and "all" means majority; there can be no Truth, nor liberty, for anyone.
-me-

You like?

*blows sf a kiss* You sweet man.

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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RE: Do you really think so? - 1/2/2010 8:52:07 AM

NorthernGent

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I think that circumstances dictate the boat being rocked in a radical fashion.

To illustrate:

The Enlightenment/Humanism/the Renaissance were the result of the new world opening up and the opportunities afforded needed ideas surrounding individualism at the expense of theology (Capitalism - self-expression through economics; Protestantism - self-expression through religion; the Renaissance - the revival of Platonic values and the idea that man is the sole measure of the universe). None of these simply appeared from nowhere - they were the result of a need to change direction due to unforseen circumstances.

Obviously they are the ideas of a select group of thinkers which the masses latch onto for their own ends.

There will not be a change of direction on the back of mild disillusionment among the masses (not in England anyway) - it will take a significant change of circumstances in the environment. Unless of course you wish to advocate sloughing off the past on the back of intangible notions such as equality and liberty - which in my eyes is too risky - slow and steady wins the race.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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