RE: Did you consent to be governed?

RE: Did you consent to be governed? (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 10:02:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Real, no. The people in our govt are the hired help, not the management. We are "citizens" not "subjects." This is true, but it's fair to say that if you voted for anybody (and I mean anybody) since turning 18, then you have consented to the whole rule by elected (or even unelected between 200 and 2009) representatives thing. If you're not on the electoral register, then fair enough.

cpK69 -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 10:12:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead This is true, but it's fair to say that if you voted for anybody (and I mean anybody) since turning 18, then you have consented to the whole rule by elected (or even unelected between 200 and 2009) representatives thing. If you're not on the electoral register, then fair enough. I feel sick to my stomach; is this true? Kim

Moonhead -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 10:23:44 AM)
If you're voting in an election, that's a pretty fair statement that you regard the election as a legitimate process and whoever wins as a legally elected representative of whatever it is you're voting for, surely? If you didn't, you wouldn't have bothered voting in the first place (as I believe a lot of Libertarians don't).

cpK69 -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 10:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If you're voting in an election, that's a pretty fair statement that you regard the election as a legitimate process and whoever wins as a legally elected representative of whatever it is you're voting for, surely? Hmmmm… So not what I was thinking the last time around. quote: If you didn't, you wouldn't have bothered voting in the first place (as I believe a lot of Libertarians don't). Are you referring to me as a Libertarian? I can’t tell. I have no idea as to what they do. The first time I voted, back in '04', I hadn't yet learned that the 'game' is rigged. In '08', I more or less, cast a statement, instead of a vote; I knew it wouldn't be counted as a vote. Looking back, it was more of a personal statement, to myself; but felt like I was saying it outloud. Kim

Musicmystery -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 11:08:20 AM)
quote: Did you consent to be governed? Did I grow up here, take advantage of free education, military, police and fire protection, clean water, safe food, the freedom to speak as I chose, worship as I chose, to pursue career interests as I chose? Yup. I consented to all of it. I even participated in the process, as a voter and as an activist. I'm still proud to do so.

Acer49 -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 12:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So: Have you consented to be governed? I would place my bet on all of you did! That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless "leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them? Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules? This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract? With that "consent" comes expectations Those who govern us, must have unquestionable ethics Those who govern us must be free of hidden agendas Those who govern us must act in a fiscal responsible manner Those who govern us must truly know what is best for the people of the country and impliment it. These are some of the rules of the game, This is what I consented to. Those who govern us

Moonhead -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 1:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If you're voting in an election, that's a pretty fair statement that you regard the election as a legitimate process and whoever wins as a legally elected representative of whatever it is you're voting for, surely? Hmmmm… So not what I was thinking the last time around. quote: If you didn't, you wouldn't have bothered voting in the first place (as I believe a lot of Libertarians don't). Are you referring to me as a Libertarian? I can’t tell. I have no idea as to what they do. The first time I voted, back in '04', I hadn't yet learned that the 'game' is rigged. In '08', I more or less, cast a statement, instead of a vote; I knew it wouldn't be counted as a vote. Looking back, it was more of a personal statement, to myself; but felt like I was saying it outloud. Kim No, I'm not calling you a libertarian, Kim. I have no idea how your politics work. I was just citing them as an example of people who don't vote for ideological reasons, because they regard government as an unreasonable imposition and want nothing to do with it. Not all of them take that line, but there's a fair few of them who do. Sorry that wasn't clearer.

cpK69 -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 1:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead No, I'm not calling you a libertarian, Kim. Thanks for the clarification. I can get confused easily; so many different ways to interpret things.[;)] Kim

Moonhead -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 1:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So: Have you consented to be governed? I would place my bet on all of you did! That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless "leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them? Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules? This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract? With that "consent" comes expectations Those who govern us, must have unquestionable ethics Those who govern us must be free of hidden agendas Those who govern us must act in a fiscal responsible manner Those who govern us must truly know what is best for the people of the country and impliment it. These are some of the rules of the game, This is what I consented to. Those who govern us I take it you didn't vote during the last election, then...

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 8:52:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Have you consented to be governed? What do you mean by being governed? I mean as stated in the law books. see definition below I've consented to abiding by majority rule providing the government act as a referee in resolving individual disputes. I haven't however consented to the Prime Minister lying to Parliament and engaging the country in an illegal war as per international law. So - if you mean have I consented to absolutism and Machiavellian ideas that it is acceptable for the state to lie to the people because the state knows what's in the interests of the people - then the answer is no. People do not consent to their a-tturn-on-me making a back room deal with the judge or adverserial party either but its done all the time. WHY? Because you gave consent and giving consent is no different than giving power of attorney!! I'm more than happy to give up a small portion of my salary (i.e. taxes) so that we can invest in schools and hospitals and maintain a society that can co-exist in some sort of economic and social harmony. I've certainly consented to that. Sure a number that "I" choose to give for the services that "I" choose to use and it ends there. In that erspect I agree. I'm not so happy about paying taxes to fund war - any war - but then I've agreed to go with majority rule so win some lose some. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless "leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them? Perhaps some people are moaning; others see a dangerous situation where our political framework is being ridden rough-shod because our Prime Minister thinks he knows best and we'll thank him for it later. The most galling thing about it is that Britain is a secular nation where the majority think the notion of divine intervention is absolutely ludicrous (yet our ex-Prime Minister ignores that and goes running round on some Christian mission in a place we know nothing of and care less still). well dont forget that one of your earlier monarchs gave all the possessions of england and all chattels to the catholic church. Now rome has never been taken by england by conquest and I have no knowledge that those contracts have ever been broken as in agreed to by both parties. So that is quite conceivable imo. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules? Absolutely. The whole point of the rule of law and government is that everyone knows where they stand - you have an appeal but ultimately you abide by the rules. As per the above - our ex-Prime Minister didn't play by the established rules. Well rule of law and statutes are entirely different animals. So he may have been in conformance with rule of law which is structured to protect the monarchy from the rules. so to speak. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract? I'd agree to an extent. You can't please everyone all of the time - but you can play by the rules. Tony Blair is under investigation as we speak and it seems that the evidence suggests he committed a series of minor crimes under British law. It's a good sign that he has being forced to explain himself - let's see if the law holds him accountable and locks him up. One thing that you will find very very as in really fricken interesting.... if you go through out brit history and pay attention to the major acts thay passed and then look what happens in america within 10 years. heh heh Now that is a major kick in the balls for those who think all the "stuff" they think about history! LOL Hey Gent... well in the 14th amendment: quote: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. It really is all about the law/legal definitions..... [image]local://upfiles/59055/21EB62AB67214906B68198FD5DA783EF.jpg[/image]

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 9:10:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Real, no. The people in our govt are the hired help, not the management. We are "citizens" not "subjects." Popeye... If you are a citizen you are a subject... You know the 14th... subject to the jurisdiction of the united states corporation..... (wait till you see the definition of subject to! [image]local://upfiles/59055/68E9C9F305D84ECC989A78FC5800BA7D.jpg[/image]

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 9:29:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Did you consent to be governed? Did I grow up here, take advantage of free education, military, police and fire protection, clean water, safe food, the freedom to speak as I chose, worship as I chose, to pursue career interests as I chose? Yup. I consented to all of it. I even participated in the process, as a voter and as an activist. I'm still proud to do so. well your education was not free, mom and dad most likely paid 100 times more than needed for it. The military is originally chartered to protect the corporations abroad. Police...etymology, "policy" enforcer and of course policy is not law. Communities used to have volunteer fire departments. Does not cost to much to put a hose on a truck and have a bunch of guys sit around all day playing cards along with water stumps on the corners. There are other ways to get clean water and food than from a public corporation. freedom to speak? yell fire in a theater and they will haul you away! worship as you choose? with all religions comes the law of that religion. Try practicing shari law in the us and stoning your kid for prostitution and see how far you get. you have the freedom to give it lip service. you voted for someone to govern you and you are proud of it... Well once you consent to be governed you are subject to the jurisdiction there of. [image]local://upfiles/59055/6653E68122A34343B8FA732112047B54.jpg[/image]

Musicmystery -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/4/2010 9:36:57 PM)
Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically?

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 7:30:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically? I would have thought that being scammed like that would have outraged you? Do you take the position then that anything beyond physical monitoring is freedom is that it? Restraining someone from movement or the requirement to call in is what they force people to do on probation or in jail. The 14th says that everyone is a US citizen and all those who are, are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. I think it is pretty clear that citizens in america are not free at all but slaves under the government in which THEY created? (or did they?) Doesnt that strike you as being a bit wrong?

Termyn8or -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 7:56:01 PM)
In post 31 "born or naturalized.... AND subject.... are citizens" Nothing in there declares that I am personally subject to anything. Anyone who decides to fight the law instead of the case uses their own words against them. Another thing that people don't realize is that these loopholes are created for a reason, so certain people can use them. This is why laws have so many carefully chosen words. T

SirAldwyn -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 7:58:39 PM)
neither apply, if you are born into the system. so only people who moved here legally or illegally have a choice

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 8:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirAldwyn neither apply, if you are born into the system. so only people who moved here legally or illegally have a choice what do you mean? You did not quote anything so I do not know what you are referencing? Are saying if you are born here you are stuck with it and if you are naturalized you have a choice?

SirAldwyn -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 8:37:39 PM)
NO If you are born here, you are born into it, thus no choice. If you come here, well then you accept whatever you get. you made the choice to come here so stop whining

Musicmystery -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/5/2010 8:50:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically? I would have thought that being scammed like that would have outraged you? Do you take the position then that anything beyond physical monitoring is freedom is that it? Restraining someone from movement or the requirement to call in is what they force people to do on probation or in jail. The 14th says that everyone is a US citizen and all those who are, are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. I think it is pretty clear that citizens in america are not free at all but slaves under the government in which THEY created? (or did they?) Doesnt that strike you as being a bit wrong? [sm=dunno.gif] Have fun storming the castle! [sm=waves.gif] [image]http://multivocality.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/miraclemax.jpg[/image]

Real0ne -> RE: Did you consent to be governed? (1/6/2010 6:26:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically? I would have thought that being scammed like that would have outraged you? Do you take the position then that anything beyond physical monitoring is freedom is that it? Restraining someone from movement or the requirement to call in is what they force people to do on probation or in jail. The 14th says that everyone is a US citizen and all those who are, are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. I think it is pretty clear that citizens in america are not free at all but slaves under the government in which THEY created? (or did they?) Doesnt that strike you as being a bit wrong? [sm=dunno.gif] Have fun storming the castle! [sm=waves.gif] [image]http://multivocality.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/miraclemax.jpg[/image] Hey no need to ridicule me for pointing out the cancer within. No amount of joking around will change what it is. They made the definitions and the rules not me and its not my fault people here or elsewhere do not know their own status are nothing more than slave and chattel property. People think that because they do not have a physical chain around their ankle they are free. We all know the best slave is one who believes they are free! That said there is a glaring slap you in the face, hit you in the head with a 2x4 distinction that can be drawn from those definitions that separate the slave from the free.......and I am surprised no one here has yet to directly point it out though Terminator eluded to it in one of his posts.

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