RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (Full Version)

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SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 9:13:15 AM)

Well technically speaking the only problem with that idea is that water freezes at 0 degrees C this is why it is known as the water scale (freezes at 0 and boils at 100 etc.)

Don't ya just hate those pedantic people.[:D]




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 9:16:28 AM)


Thats a small scale solution that could be very helpful overall, beats converting recreational and wildlife areas into the eyesores that are beginning to pop up everywhere you look.

We'll still need centralized power generation facilities of some type though, I believe, especially if we're to be a competitive industrial power in the years to come.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

FR-
one idea just crazy enough to work, is to encourage homes and businesses to place solar panels on their roofs; there are millions upon millions of square feet of roofs located, conveniently enough, right atop the very homes and businesses that need electricity.
Quote from the story:
In recent months, chains including Wal-Mart Stores, Kohl's, Safeway and Whole Foods Market have installed solar panels on roofs of their stores to generate electricity on a large scale....

"In the coming months, 85 Kohl's stores will get solar panels; 43 already have them. "We want to keep pushing as many as we possibly can," said Ken Bonning, executive vice president for logistics at Kohl's.

Macy's, which has solar panels atop 18 stores, plans to install them on another 40 by the end of this year. Safeway is aiming to put panels atop 23 stores....

Wal-Mart [is considering a] program that would put panels and other renewable technologies at hundreds of stores.
"

No, it isn't an EASY button, and won't be a cure-all- but if we could generate enough electricity to reduce our oil based power consumption by even 30%, that would cut our oil imports from the Mideast by half.




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 9:33:55 AM)


When discussing temperatures with Americans be aware of the fact that we have been using the Fahrenheit scale for generations, and that we are still unashamedly using it today.

So no, water freezes at 32 degrees... just as it always has.     [8D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Well technically speaking the only problem with that idea is that water freezes at 0 degrees C this is why it is known as the water scale (freezes at 0 and boils at 100 etc.)

Don't ya just hate those pedantic people.[:D]




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 9:42:54 AM)

Ah this explains it, you American's with your weird temperature measurements, next you'll be telling me you haven’t switched to metric time.




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 9:50:48 AM)


Thank you rockspider for all the time you took to share some of your professional knowledge of the field with us.

Here in the North West United States we get most of our power from hydro and there is a lot of controversy about that because of endangered salmon and sturgeon and because the greens just seem to hate power generation. But still, our electric power is inexpensive compared to most of the rest of the world and in fact its cost effective for me to heat my home directly with electricity, and it often stays well below freezing here for extended periods of time.

As far as wind and solar being cost prohibitive even in more expensive electrical markets, thats interesting to note. Do you think that will change? Is there new technology coming online any time soon, such as improved solar panels or improved batteries? (Who wants to have to deal with batteries anyway. They're dirty, toxic, explosive, and prone to electrical shorts and failure).






Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 10:02:34 AM)


Clock-wise, we're all over the place. We have Eastern Standard, Mountain Standard, Pacific... its really a mess. Calendar-wise, we're still on Gregorian Standard, and damn proud of it... though there seems to be a bit of stubborn controversy there, as well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126212850216209527.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Ah this explains it, you American's with your weird temperature measurements, next you'll be telling me you haven’t switched to metric time.




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 10:07:56 AM)


Venezuela is offering lessons regarding the consequences a nation may face after falling behind in electrical generation, for anyone interested:


quote:

Venezuela begins 2010 with electricity rationing

Oil-rich Venezuela ushered in 2010 with new measures rationing electricity use in malls, businesses and billboards, as Hugo Chavez's government aimed to save power amid a crippling drought.


The new regulations came into effect January 1, with businesses required to comply with reduced consumption limits and authorities warning of forced power cuts and rate hikes if the measures are not followed.


GA_googleFillSlot("news_story_instory"); A decree published on Christmas Eve states that commercial centers may operate from 11:00 am to 9:00 pm on the electricity grid, but beyond that establishments would have to operate off-grid, using their own generators.


Venezuela is flush with oil -- the country's primary export -- and natural gas, but relies mainly on hydroelectric generation to meet domestic energy demand.


With the country in a widespread drought, late last year Chavez announced a sweeping campaign to reduce widespread energy "waste," stressing that rationing was necessary to avoid a systemic "collapse."

<snip>

Introductory measures were evident in Caracas last month, with the neon signs that traditionally welcome Christmas left unlit.


The state-controlled aluminum and steel industries halted some of their production lines in order to reduce energy consumption by some 560 megawatts (MW).


Electricity demand in Venezuela is more than 16,500 MW, far higher than what is currently generated. Experts say the power sector requires 18 billion dollars in investment through 2014.


In 2009 there were four nationwide blackouts, with daily failures common in several cities.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.227e6a4e11ba39c08630e5729d693330.9e1&show_article=1




luckydawg -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 10:46:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Heretic, what is funny is to take a look at the org he is talking about. You can click the link to the "international consortium" doing "advance engineering on the project" (posted by acohill 5 years ago) in the blog brain references. Its fucking hillarious. Brain is a perfect example of a die hard Obama supporter. There is nothing there. An impressive introduction on the blog, follow the link....nothing


What does this topic and the link have to do with Obama?




My apologies for confusing you again troll. I know it is difficult for you to keep up.




rulemylife -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:38:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Heretic, what is funny is to take a look at the org he is talking about. You can click the link to the "international consortium" doing "advance engineering on the project" (posted by acohill 5 years ago) in the blog brain references. Its fucking hillarious. Brain is a perfect example of a die hard Obama supporter. There is nothing there. An impressive introduction on the blog, follow the link....nothing


What does this topic and the link have to do with Obama?




My apologies for confusing you again troll. I know it is difficult for you to keep up.


Somehow I don't take that as an insult since everyone that disagrees with you is labeled a troll.

But perhaps you could humor me and answer the question.




TheHeretic -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:42:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

But perhaps you could humor me and answer the question.




Said the voice from under the bridge...




TheHeretic -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:46:46 PM)

Something else that has to be kept in mind on talking about where to locate these sites, is the infrastructure to then send the power where it is needed.  Southern California Edison currently has a project underway to run new lines from the Tehachapi wind farms down to the Los Angeles basin.  They are being fought every step of the way, often with good reason..




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:48:31 PM)


The greens are overwhelmingly Liberals Democrats, rml. I think what dawg and Heretic are trying to tell you is, that's so darned obvious that they seriously doubt you're asking the question in good faith.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Somehow I don't take that as an insult since everyone that disagrees with you is labeled a troll.

But perhaps you could humor me and answer the question.





rulemylife -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:50:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDouglas

I have the perfect place to build these types of power generation sites.  Use all of the old atomic bomb test sites to build them on.  They already have the big craters to use for placing the mirrors so it would take very little to get them aimed right, and who cares if it causes any damage, I mean the area is already "hot".  So a few construction workers would have to worry about radiation exsposure, at least those sites would become usefull to the nation again. 


Yeah, fuck those construction workers.

What's a few cases of radiation exposure compared to you being able to save money on your electric bill?








rulemylife -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:55:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

But perhaps you could humor me and answer the question.




Said the voice from under the bridge...


You're in good company Heretic.






rulemylife -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 12:58:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The greens are overwhelmingly Liberals Democrats, rml. I think what dawg and Heretic are trying to tell you is, that's so darned obvious that they seriously doubt you're asking the question in good faith.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Somehow I don't take that as an insult since everyone that disagrees with you is labeled a troll.

But perhaps you could humor me and answer the question.




Nothing is obvious about the link to Obama or Democrats.

Unless we are going to start having the six degrees of separation where everything can be tied to him and the Democrats in some way.








philosophy -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 2:05:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



We'll still need centralized power generation facilities of some type though, I believe, especially if we're to be a competitive industrial power in the years to come.



....not trying for a pissing match here, but why do you believe that power generation needs to be centralised?
i appreciate you're talking in terms of a strong industrial base, but i am unsure as to why you reject decentralised power generation so quickly?




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 3:28:12 PM)


I meant, as opposed to a solar panel here or a small wind turbine there. From what I've seen its more efficient to produce large amounts of electricity (as required by heavy industry) in a centralized plant for a variety of reasons. Even wind and solar plants are centralized, but what I meant was more along the lines of nuclear or natural gas powered generation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



We'll still need centralized power generation facilities of some type though, I believe, especially if we're to be a competitive industrial power in the years to come.



....not trying for a pissing match here, but why do you believe that power generation needs to be centralised?
i appreciate you're talking in terms of a strong industrial base, but i am unsure as to why you reject decentralised power generation so quickly?




Sanity -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 3:34:05 PM)


Obama's always been obnoxiously "green". You honestly haven't picked up on that yet?


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Nothing is obvious about the link to Obama or Democrats.

Unless we are going to start having the six degrees of separation where everything can be tied to him and the Democrats in some way.




thornhappy -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 3:47:41 PM)

Fusion power has long been a "just another 10 years or so" industry, starting back in the '60s.  It's mostly doomed, and doomed to be doomed.

There's an awesome book about why it's never paid off (and unlikely to do so) called Sun in A Bottle: The Strange Science of Wishful Thinking that runs down the history and science involved.

It's not a clean industry as most will advertise; the fusion chambers are bombarded by neutrons, which makes the chambers radioactive after awhile.  So you'd end up having to replace, dispose of, and install new ones,  which is not an easy task.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Hydrogen fusion power | Technology Futures

I saw a show about this either on the discovery channel or National Geographic and they said using a small lake about a mile wide and 50 feet deep you can supply the world with enough energy for a year, and apparently without pollution. I need to read more about this technology. And what is this fixation with nuclear power? It's okay for us to glow in the dark using nuclear power but using solar power is bad, go figure?

Hydrogen fusion power | Technology Futures

ITER is an international consortium that is planning to build a 500 megawatt fusion reactor by 2016. Fusion power is the holy grail of the energy industry because it uses relatively inexpensive fuel (hydrogen), creates little contaminated nuclear waste, and can generate large amounts of power.

Advanced engineering is underway, and one of the goals of the project is to use pre-qualified and off the shelf materials and components. The ITER fusion reactor will generate ten times more power than it needs to maintain the fusion reaction.

A usable fusion power plant would replace coal and oil power plants, and would have a dramatic impact on CO2 emissions, which may contribute to global warming. Fusion plants would also be pollution free. China, which uses a lot of coal that is causing pollution problems, is a partner in the project.

http://www.designnine.com/news/content/hydrogen-fusion-power





mnottertail -> RE: Solar showdown in Calif. tortoises' desert home (1/3/2010 4:28:49 PM)

maybe it is time to think along these lines again.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1831230/mpage_1/key_plasma/tm.htm#1831426


I am dead set against nuclear since it would provide terrorists with ready made nuclear bombs in population centers, even if we quit fucking with folks today, we got a generation to live with terrorism at least, they would need some heavy security from air, land and sea before I would go nuke in the US.





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