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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:14:13 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As for worst ever--there's some competition there, especially in the 19th century...

But I nominate Grant. Clueless ineffective disaster, start to finish.

Worst 20th century president? Hoover, hands down.

Not Kennedy? He got you into Vietnam, wasted god only knows how much money on NASA and nearly started a nuclear exchange with Russia three times. Hoover was an incompetent idiot, but he couldn't really compete with any of that.

Keep in mind the alternative to Kennedy was 1950s Nixon--the arch conservative who agreed with and supported McCarthy. We were going to Vietnam one way or another. God forbid we learn from the French.

I see Kennedy as more of a do-nothing president who spent a lot of money not doing it. Lots of talk, inability to deliver. We remember him because of Johnson's achievements (and because of the assassination, of course).





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/6/2010 11:16:30 AM >

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:17:18 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Fair points. I tend to think more of the bay of pigs thing and the Cuban missile crisis as far as Kennedy goes, though: I doubt Nixon would have been stupid enough for either of those messes, even in the early '60s.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:19:04 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LOL, one name always pops up when this question is asked; *Clinton*


Especially if you have an agenda to deflect from the discussion of an overrated puppet.


God he was awful! The perfect job for a sociopath like Clinton.
Come on Ebony, Clinton would have to be right up there with the worst of the worst!
Reagan isn't even close! Plus, people *liked* Reagan!
Clinton was despised! And his "presidency" ended in disgrace and impeachment by the House.
And as is common in sociopaths he was very sexually promiscuous and women came forward accusing him of rape! And as everyone knows he was a (pathological) liar. Just think of all the public doesn't know about him! People like that belong in state hospitals not in public office.


Too bad there are so few state hospitals for the mentally ill anymore.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:22:14 AM   
kajirastar


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Jimmy carter

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:34:19 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As for worst ever--there's some competition there, especially in the 19th century...

But I nominate Grant. Clueless ineffective disaster, start to finish.

Worst 20th century president? Hoover, hands down.



Not Kennedy? He got you into Vietnam, wasted god only knows how much money on NASA and nearly started a nuclear exchange with Russia three times. Hoover was an incompetent idiot, but he couldn't really compete with any of that.



Kennedy did not get us into Vietnam, Ike had us there almost the same day as the french left in disgust. We were ugly americans before kennedy.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 11:38:48 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		True enough. (I was forgetting that.) He did escalate it massively, though.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 12:25:32 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Fair points. I tend to think more of the bay of pigs thing and the Cuban missile crisis as far as Kennedy goes, though: I doubt Nixon would have been stupid enough for either of those messes, even in the early '60s.


While I will concede the Bay of Pigs was a disaster, I'm curious how you find the JFK administration to be at fault in the Cuban missile crisis.

I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/6/2010 12:26:28 PM >

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 12:48:58 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Clinton was despised!


Here's the interesting thing, though....he wasn't. Both then and now, people love to see him--he remains popular, and would have easily been elected to a third term (yes, so was Reagan, who also would have won a third term--it's the only way Bush I won).

Eight years of the largest peacetime expansion in our history will do that. And history will show that, despite the conflicts, he was quite adept at adapting, working with Congress and getting lots and lots of smaller stuff done. In aggregate, a lot of good. Even foes like Newt Gingrich acknowledge that.

I know for you its all about NAFTA. But while we disagree on that...it's not the only thing.

The blow job thing was just blind idiocy fueled by egomania, of course. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.



Bill was good for the economy, Bill Gates.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 12:51:56 PM   
Moonhead


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ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.

A completely pointless waste of money just so that some twat could leave a flag on the moon nine years later.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 3:08:00 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

Bill was good for the economy, Bill Gates.


Or Bill was good for Bill?

(considering Bill's corrupt bubblenomics, champion real productive economy outsourcing, and so on..... I argue the economy was structurally totally screwed during Clinton years, incoming Bush just dragged the same thing on).

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 3:18:07 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		I think we'd have to go back to Reaganomics. Even George H. Bush and Bob Dole ridiculed it during the '80 primaries...voodoo economics it was too, as his own people admitted in defeat and a crash 7 years later. He also quadrupled the national debt and turned the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world inside of eight years.

Enter the Cheney mindset that "Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter." Yet still a conservative hero. Yup, I have trouble taking that seriously.


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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 7:03:09 PM   
SweetPoosy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.

A completely pointless waste of money just so that some twat could leave a flag on the moon nine years later.


Oh my, we have our knickers in a twist! This smacks of sour grapes to me...but maybe I'm mistaken. Meanwhile, I've got a moon rock I'll sell cheap...only 20 million!

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 7:50:46 PM   
Acer49


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ORIGINAL: Brain

I think this guy hit the nail on the head. Reagan is very much overrated and the cause of many problems we have today. I think it’s unfortunate right-wingers have gotten away with embellishing his presidency.

Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever?

The starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency.

When it came to cutting back on America’s energy use, Reagan’s message could be boiled down to the old reggae lyric, “Don’t worry, be happy.” Rather than pressing Detroit to build smaller, fuel-efficient cars, Reagan made clear that the auto industry could manufacture gas-guzzlers without much nagging from Washington.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/060309.html




Be it Regan or anyone else, they did not do it all on their own. There are a bunch of Senators as well as the House of Representatives that had a hand in all of this the good as well as the bad

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/6/2010 10:31:05 PM   
ShoreBound149


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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/7/2010 5:09:30 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.

A completely pointless waste of money just so that some twat could leave a flag on the moon nine years later.


Oh my, we have our knickers in a twist! This smacks of sour grapes to me...but maybe I'm mistaken. Meanwhile, I've got a moon rock I'll sell cheap...only 20 million!

My knickers are untwisted, Poosy. It's just something that's always struck me as a pointless waste of money.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/7/2010 10:00:06 PM   
submittous


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Status: offline 		I'd say Clinton was a good middle of the road republican president, about the same as Ike. Carter was a failure but right on many many policies. Reagan was popular but wrong on many many policies. Ya'll forgot alternative energy, if Carter's programs had just survived the 8 years of Reagan we'd have much less of an energy problem today. But I have to say I think W is the worst president of my lifetime.... he is overwhelming. We're still discovering the little time bombs left by that administration.

Reagan does come in second for the results of so much bad policy, like starting the deregulation boom. LBJ third for the same reason and helping change public opinion away from believing in government as a force for the common good with his vietnam policy. My vote for best in my lifetime is Truman, who certainly wasn't perfect.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/7/2010 10:10:55 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.

A completely pointless waste of money just so that some twat could leave a flag on the moon nine years later.


Oh my, we have our knickers in a twist! This smacks of sour grapes to me...but maybe I'm mistaken. Meanwhile, I've got a moon rock I'll sell cheap...only 20 million!

My knickers are untwisted, Poosy. It's just something that's always struck me as a pointless waste of money.
"pointless waste of money" ,so you don't see all of the scientific and engineering breakthroughs that were a direct result of the drive to put a "twit with a flag" up there as worth it?

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/8/2010 4:02:42 AM   
pahunkboy


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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/8/2010 5:39:58 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I'm also curious how you see the NASA projects to be a failure.

A completely pointless waste of money just so that some twat could leave a flag on the moon nine years later.


Oh my, we have our knickers in a twist! This smacks of sour grapes to me...but maybe I'm mistaken. Meanwhile, I've got a moon rock I'll sell cheap...only 20 million!

My knickers are untwisted, Poosy. It's just something that's always struck me as a pointless waste of money.
"pointless waste of money" ,so you don't see all of the scientific and engineering breakthroughs that were a direct result of the drive to put a "twit with a flag" up there as worth it?

No. I don't think velcro was worth fifty billion, or whatever the Apollo programme wound up costing.

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RE: Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever? - 1/8/2010 5:52:03 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Wasnt velcro invented in the 30s or 40s?

The economic value of the moon programme is akin to that derived from total war; the same process of forcing technological progress to gain advantage over the enemy in war, acts to gain advantage over the challenging circumstances involved in sending people off and wanting them to return.

The aim of putting men on the moon may have been pretty daft and unworthwhile in itself, except for the propaganda side of things in a Cold War, but it provided an ideal vehicle which the people would support by and large for massive investments to the best minds and facilities to support the economy at the time (like a stimulus package) and to derive technological progress that would be repaid in the decades following too.

Its somewhat of a disappointment that there isnt the same backing for green energy solutions today to which the economic stimulus ought to have been possible to wholly direct rather than being used to prop up failing financial institutions and line the pockets of the elite.

E

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