BDSM and abuse

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Croctden -> BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 4:37:50 PM)
I think the great unspoken in the BDSM world is that many submissives suffered some form of abuse in their past – either molestation or physical abuse. This has lead to the colloquial theory that those who are abused seek out dominants later in life. However I am not sure how much I buy this theory. There seems to be too much anecdotal evidence to deny it is a contributing factor, but that is not the whole story. I believe the statistic is one fourth of all children are sexually abused (one-third of all girls), which means that give how small our community is I feel very confident saying that the majority of women who were once abused never have the faintest interest in becoming a submissive. I'm not even sure that I believe the majority of women who are submissive were beaten, molested, or had some hard type of life. It may seem that way, but I wonder if people just notice those who have these stories more. I don't know of any studies that have looked at this issue. I think that one would be wise to bear in mind that mainstream society looks unkindly on S&M and so characterizes people involved as mentally deficient in some way. Certainly some of us are, but the same is true for every cross section of society. In the end, with the exception of our sexual preferences (and maybe even including them), probably most of us are as “normal” as everyone else.

Lenina -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 4:54:21 PM)
http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/ravenbdsmabuse.htm I found this link when I read your post. It poses some valid points. I think it's easy for an "outsider" to make the connection between the bdsm life and an abusive childhood. However, that's a big generalization. One that probably doesn't hold much validity.

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 5:07:42 PM)
Just some statistics here on child abuse as were reported by the National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect-2, compiled in 1993 (most recent). As defined by the "Harm Standard", an estimated 1,553,800 children in the US were abused and/or neglected. This was a 67% increas from the previous NIS estimate of 1986 (931,000). However, there is no statistic that I have found (so far) that states what percentage of the USA (or the world)'s children are abused or neglected.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 5:14:49 PM)
Submissives? I know lots of Domme's who were physically abused in their childhood. Including myself. quote: ORIGINAL: Croctden I think the great unspoken in the BDSM world is that many submissives suffered some form of abuse in their past – either molestation or physical abuse. This has lead to the colloquial theory that those who are abused seek out dominants later in life. However I am not sure how much I buy this theory. There seems to be too much anecdotal evidence to deny it is a contributing factor, but that is not the whole story. I believe the statistic is one fourth of all children are sexually abused (one-third of all girls), which means that give how small our community is I feel very confident saying that the majority of women who were once abused never have the faintest interest in becoming a submissive. I'm not even sure that I believe the majority of women who are submissive were beaten, molested, or had some hard type of life. It may seem that way, but I wonder if people just notice those who have these stories more. I don't know of any studies that have looked at this issue. I think that one would be wise to bear in mind that mainstream society looks unkindly on S&M and so characterizes people involved as mentally deficient in some way. Certainly some of us are, but the same is true for every cross section of society. In the end, with the exception of our sexual preferences (and maybe even including them), probably most of us are as “normal” as everyone else.

Rayne58 -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 5:25:45 PM)
I cannot speak for others, but I am one who feels her submissive nature got her into a relationship with a controlling domineering man. He never physically abused me but kept me under his thumb and undermined what little self esteem I had. It took me over 20 years to get out of it. My submissiveness and desire to please was always there even as a child. I didn't know anything about BDSM until I met Master but when I started to read and learn it was like a light suddenly went on - THIS is who I am. The only abuse I suffered during childhood was years of bullying at school. From 5 years old till about 15 (when I finally turned on my nemesis and punched her in the face) I was teased, punched and generally made to feel miserable and worthless. At 17 I met my husband, we married when I was 19. I should have recognised the signs beforehand but he was my first ever partner and remained so up until I left him when I was 43. Hindsight is as they say 20/20 [8\|] It got so I believed I would not be able to cope on my own. I had two children to consider. So I stayed and in the end was so depressed my health began to suffer physically but it was still over a year later before I managed to tell him it was over. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. But I'm so glad I did it because now it all seems like a very fuzzy bad dream and my life now is so much better [:)]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 5:49:19 PM)
It's not that unspoken in bdsm, trust me. Do a search for it just here and you'll come up with a dozen threads.

Tristan -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 6:54:55 PM)
Croctden, A kind of related topic is an article I read several years ago in Newsweek or a similar magizine about the correlation between childhood hardship and monitary damage after a hurricane. It turned out that those adults who experienced a difficult childhood had measurably less monitary damage after a hurricane. It sounded kind of crazy until I read the rational behind the measurement. The reason was supposed to be that those who had experienced a difficult childhood were more prepared when a hurricane was forcasted for their area. They took more steps to minimize the damage to their property. I suppose that there could be many different responses to a difficult childhood. Under the right conditions, it could strengthen a person. I would like to re-read that article if anyone knows were to find it. Tristan

MistressDREAD -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 7:00:59 PM)
BDSM and abuse Christianity and abuse Preists and abuse Police and abuse Terrorisum and abuse Animals and abuse Children and abuse Men and abuse Mothers and abuse Whites and abuse Blacks and abuse Politics and abuse Starvation and abuse Infection and abuse ect...ect...ect...ect......... the sum of all parts equal 100% It does not matter from whence abuse stems from. It effects ALL humans in some form or manner equal. JMO

Real0ne -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 10:28:17 PM)
yes from my experiences i would agree with that. i for one have not been abused and find it extremely difficult finding a compatible partner in bdsm. other friends of mine who have been abused more easily find others who have similar issues lets say so they are a good match. ie over bearing dom(me) to a needy insecure sub. match made in heaven i suspect most people who have not been abused have more difficulty finding bdsm partners than those who have

SimplyV -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 11:08:55 PM)
Personally.. I'm of the camp that there is a higher instance of abuse survivors in the BDSM realm. No I don't have stats to back it up, just personal experience with people telling me their personal stories. My personal theory (with sexual abuse survivors anyway) is that people who have been through sexual abuse, learn to equivocate sex with power exchange. I know there was studies done about rape victims having to overcome sexual problems stemming from that very issue, but I don't remember where I read it and not sure if I can find it.. So take it as you will. Yes there are people in this lifestyle which state they've never been abused. I'm currently reading a book about Repressed Memories that actually makes me question that as well. shrugs (mainly because a person's own perception is the only thing that really consitutes what is abuse. Where others may not agree that it was abuse, it doesn't change that person's emotional and mental response to it) Anyway.. this is all theories.. and hot air.. V (oh and Realone... I started a new topic for your post here)

DragonNphoenix -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/21/2006 11:44:55 PM)
I am an abuse survivor. I do not think that because of this I became a slave. I think that I became a slave because of my deep need to serve. I do not think that this comes from the abuse that I suffered, because I am also a Domme to the others. Neither Dragon nor myself are overbearing or needy. This might be true of some, just not us. 1st Girl Phoenix

meatcleaver -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 12:42:11 AM)
I wouldn't trust the statistics on this issue anyway. As with most statistics they are collated by people whose interest it is to always record the highest figure. Statistics on such issues are notoriously hard to collate because there is so much subjectivity as to whether a person's experience fits a defined criteria of abuse. I remember one figure publicised about rape as 1 in 4 women having been raped, a figure that seemed beyond belief to me, someone who once worked in the field of collating statistics on social issues. When I read the source of the statistics and how they were collated it was quite obvious it was to prove a point.

SimplyV -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 1:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DragonNphoenix I am an abuse survivor. I do not think that because of this I became a slave. I think that I became a slave because of my deep need to serve. I do not think that this comes from the abuse that I suffered, because I am also a Domme to the others. Neither Dragon nor myself are overbearing or needy. This might be true of some, just not us. 1st Girl Phoenix There are lots of theories on this.. which came first the chicken or the egg.. and people like to prove one or the other to fit their own selfish desires.. as they believe that if its caused by abuse then its a sickness (and thus we must cure these BDSMers)... or if they like what they like because of the after effects of abuse then what they're doing is wrong.. etc so on.. I don't really care either way. I don't find people who have been abused overbearing or needy.. especially if they've had time to heal from it. Some people haven't or don't want to heal from it.. and thats their choice. But then, I should also state that I haven't really known anyone who wasn't abused in some way. Ok.. maybe a couple people.. maybe. I tend to find most people who have been through an abusive past to have the biggest hearts, lots of patience, and a sincere understanding. But I think that has more to do with overcoming strife than abuse. Personally, I do believe that my BDSM desires are a result of being abused in my past. I think that going through what I went through, had a profound imprint on my personality and my perception of love and sexual pleasure. Is it all conscience? no.. Most of it is subconscience.. The little things.. the "voices in my head" if you will. Do I think BDSM is harmful for me? no.. I think it is a natural expression of myself as I am. I am who I am today, not despite my past nor entirely because of my past. I am a melting pot of genetics and environmental factors. I have lived and learned and applied.

bimalepainslut -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 3:02:34 AM)
For myself my sub side has nothing whatsoever to do with any abuse. i had a great and rewarding childhood for which i am so very grateful when you see so many children who are not so lucky. In real life i am an alpha male, so what turns me into a sub? I haven't a clue, and to be frank i do not care. i get enourmous pleasure from the pain of being a sub, and really enjoy seeing a partner get their pleasure from me. I agree with several of the posts that have stated that women who are in abusive relationships seldom become subs. One has to wonder at why so many women, and men, seek out a partner who abuses them, and then will have a string of partners who do the same. I think the answer lies in the fact that they are turned on by the streak of violence in a partner that ultimatly will be turned on them. The victims of abuse are a million miles away from the true submissuve. bmps

Prunesquallor -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 3:10:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Croctden I believe the statistic is one fourth of all children are sexually abused (one-third of all girls Sorry to go off on a tangent, but could you say where this statistic comes from - or was it just something you read somewhere. I ask, because if it were true, it would mean that paedophilia was so widespread that it would have to be regarded as a normal aspect of sexuality (not that I think it is true).

slaveladyj -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 4:50:53 AM)
While I was abuse as a child, my needs and desires to be dominated are actually older than that. I can recall from the earliest age having fantasies of being a slave, even if at the time I didn't understand it.

Real0ne -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 6:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prunesquallor quote: ORIGINAL: Croctden I believe the statistic is one fourth of all children are sexually abused (one-third of all girls Sorry to go off on a tangent, but could you say where this statistic comes from - or was it just something you read somewhere. I ask, because if it were true, it would mean that paedophilia was so widespread that it would have to be regarded as a normal aspect of sexuality (not that I think it is true). actually that is the exact number that a court reporter told me about 10 years ago as her estimation based on the cases that came thru court.

meatcleaver -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 7:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne actually that is the exact number that a court reporter told me about 10 years ago as her estimation based on the cases that came thru court. Cases that go through a court have little statistical relevence without some concrete criteria by which to compare and assess those case numbers with society as a whole. I just find it difficult to believe one third of all girls are abused, though any number would fluctuate depending on how you define abuse. Just by someone saying they have been abused doesn't mean they have been abused. There have been quite a few cases of people being accused of being abusers only to be found they were not only not in contact with the person in question but had yet to meet the person who claimed abuse. Evidence has also been building up about false memory syndrome and the planting of the idea of abuse in therapy. Once again there was a case in England of false memory where a person was accused of abuse only for it to be proved they had no contact with the child at the time of the alledged abuse. In a spate of arrests for child abuse cases a couple of years ago where social workers were arrested, yes there were several guilty people but there were also several proved innocent because they had never been in contact with the alledged victims and some had not even met their alledged victim! This whole area is murky and to try to extrapolate statistics is fraught because of all the falsehoods whether malicious or not.

thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 8:39:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyV Personally.. I'm of the camp that there is a higher instance of abuse survivors in the BDSM realm. No I don't have stats to back it up, just personal experience with people telling me their personal stories. My personal theory (with sexual abuse survivors anyway) is that people who have been through sexual abuse, learn to equivocate sex with power exchange. I know there was studies done about rape victims having to overcome sexual problems stemming from that very issue, but I don't remember where I read it and not sure if I can find it.. So take it as you will. Yes there are people in this lifestyle which state they've never been abused. I'm currently reading a book about Repressed Memories that actually makes me question that as well. shrugs (mainly because a person's own perception is the only thing that really consitutes what is abuse. Where others may not agree that it was abuse, it doesn't change that person's emotional and mental response to it) Do you think it also has to do with the fact that those who have dealt with or are dealing with their abuse tend to seek out others of similar backgrounds or may also be more upfront about it. A lot of time lies and secrets are part of the cycle of abuse. When we start dealing with our pasts we start to hate the lying and the secrets and this may encourage use to be more open about our own pasts. I think in general because most BDSM is done after communication and there is a focus on communication those in the community who are survivors feel freer to talk about it or even the need to talk about it. When I negotiate with someone I need to know if some activity we might do might run the risk of abusive triggers. For example someone abused in the dark or blindfolded while abused may have blindfolds as a hard limit -- if I know why, I can make healthier choices for the scene.

SimplyV -> RE: BDSM and abuse (3/22/2006 2:21:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Do you think it also has to do with the fact that those who have dealt with or are dealing with their abuse tend to seek out others of similar backgrounds or may also be more upfront about it. Not sure what you're referring to by "this"... But I do think people of abuse probably do get along better with others who have been through similar situations. Its what makes people friends in the first place, there has to be some level of common ground. I also think that people who have been abused, sometimes don't share their history out of fear of judgement and rejection. Terrified of being "damaged goods" due to somethign that wasn't their fault. Or that they're "abuse" wasn't significant enough to take seriously. I've seen people use their experiences in abuse as a banner of pride. "I survived this ___, and what you think was abuse .. you have nothing on me" As if they're better because of the type or amount of abuse they had. Personally, I don't think these types of people have really dealt with their abuse at all. quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo A lot of time lies and secrets are part of the cycle of abuse. When we start dealing with our pasts we start to hate the lying and the secrets and this may encourage use to be more open about our own pasts. I think in general because most BDSM is done after communication and there is a focus on communication those in the community who are survivors feel freer to talk about it or even the need to talk about it. When I negotiate with someone I need to know if some activity we might do might run the risk of abusive triggers. For example someone abused in the dark or blindfolded while abused may have blindfolds as a hard limit -- if I know why, I can make healthier choices for the scene. Abused or not.. everyone has limits. And I respect those limits. Usually people have a good reason for it, which they'll tell you if you ask. I'm not sure if being abused makes us more or less tolerant to lies.. I just know I hate them. There are things that are abusive triggers.. certain words, sequences of actions, certain toys.. but I think its all part of the learning process in getting to know your partner. People respond to different stimulus with different responses. Abused or not abused, everyone has a different perception.

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