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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/22/2006 3:51:55 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		Abuse is a word that dwells inside a victim mentality.

Maybe, as people who embrace Risk Aware Consentual Kink, we take it out of the realm of victim/perpetrator, and put WIITWD into the realm of artist/canvas, or just plain make it into the way we like to love - however you define love.

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(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/26/2006 5:17:27 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		ooops messed up


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/26/2006 5:18:51 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/26/2006 5:52:17 AM   
summerpls


Posts: 18
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		Everyone is talking as if abuse in childhood only affects people as in them becoming slaves or submissive as they grow into their own sexuality.  I do not agree with this ... many abused children become the abusers in adulthood and unfortunetally some of them end up in a bdsm lifestyle as a Dominant.  I say unfortunetally because in my view bdsm is not about "abuse" ... it's about concentual play and respecting your partners whether they be top or bottom.

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(in reply to classykindasassy)
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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/27/2006 2:38:47 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: summerpls

Everyone is talking as if abuse in childhood only affects people as in them becoming slaves or submissive as they grow into their own sexuality.  I do not agree with this ... many abused children become the abusers in adulthood and unfortunetally some of them end up in a bdsm lifestyle as a Dominant.  I say unfortunetally because in my view bdsm is not about "abuse" ... it's about concentual play and respecting your partners whether they be top or bottom.


yes i agree that we mostly have looked at it from the sub side and i would change some to many of them, at least from my experience

unfortunetally some of them end up in a bdsm lifestyle as a Dominant.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to summerpls)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/27/2006 4:03:44 PM   
IMw8n4xtc


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/12/2006
Status: offline 		I once hosted a submissive women's group. The first question I posed was, "where does this interest in D/s come from in your childhood?"  Many of them answered that they did not know, some answered that they were molested sexually or were abused physically, and a few answered that they "didn't ask questions, they were just sub and that was that."  My own sister was molested when she was young, by an uncle, but she is repelled by this lifestyle, and does not approve that I am in it. I know that I was never molested or sexually abused, or even physically abused, but there were certain "clues" of my boyfriends/lovelife/likes/needs/wants while growing up that led me to this point in my life.  I think it's just different for everybody. You cannot really say one automatically leads to the other.  There are studies about this, actually, and you can find them in the bookstores and libraries. I've seen a few, and read a couple myself years ago.  I think the bottom line is, everybody is hoping to find someone to take care of them in some way...whether it's Domming or subbing. We all just want to be loved, cared for, cherished and nurtured to be the best we can be.  And this lifestyle is just an alternative way to achieve those goals.   ---B

(in reply to Croctden)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/27/2006 4:30:25 PM   
dorsaisgirl1


Posts: 156
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		i dont know . weather it is true that there is a conection between abuse and bdsm. i myself have been abused as a child and as an adalt . but i think that the concept that the two are conected would infure that bdsm is abuse . witch i do not agree with ......... i guess that it can be said that anything a person is subjected to becomes a part of them. it could be argued in the case of dom/mes who where abused that becouse they felt powerless as a child being abused that they made the decission that they would never be in a situation where they had no power again. and likewise with a sub/slave who was aboused that they would be abel to relive things in a safe invirement i have heard this argued before in my relationship i dont see it but that does not meen that it cant be true of some

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/29/2006 1:13:32 AM   
NightDaughter


Posts: 264
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Well for myself, i didn't have any abuse in my childhood at least of the adult nature - just the standard bullies that most people seem to get at one point in their life.

For me the first relationship i was in was where the abuse started - and it started with him raping me and no one believing me that it had happened, thus setting the stage for 4 years of hell.

I got out of that relationship, and a few years later found myself in yet another one which didn't last as long because i realised what was happening and got out as fast as I was able to do so.

I can say for myself, that I am now unsure about many things when it comes to finding a partner in life because both times I ended up in an abusive relationship - i've had the therpy and i'm hoping that thanks to it the next person i choos to submit to will not turn out to be another abuser.

well my few cents of comment, take care
ND

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(in reply to Croctden)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/29/2006 1:45:20 AM   
SoulfulSadism


Posts: 53
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline 		From my experiences, subs/slaves who want/crave abuse generally fit in 2 categories
1) who were abused 2) those who need for thrills is way too intense to fit within anything normal

About the abused - you have to realize that they know the world calls it abuse; but in their mind it's a dark mesmerizing hypnotic fear, and their heart keeps getting drawn back to it - and often, that's the only kind of "love" they trust - and want. It's a part of them, leaving it makes them feel ... out of a familiar place. The ones who live it as a life often have sympathy and pity for their abusers - call it an advanced case of Stockholm Syndrome at the risk of over simplification.

The tetering-on-the-edge-thrill seekers ... sooner or later realize and accept - usually comfortably - that a world with well defined boundaries of safety, guidelines for security and sanity does not appeal; there's no real rush till there's that unknown factor lurking in the mix. Usually they are strong enough in their hearts also to know that sooner or later they risk being discarded.

For both categories - the early experiences and/or intense emotions give them advanced maturity; they are more likely to figure you out before you even start tuning into them.

(in reply to NightDaughter)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 2:21:47 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Croctden

           I think the great unspoken in the BDSM world is that many submissives suffered some form of abuse in their past – either molestation or physical abuse.  This has lead to the colloquial theory that those who are abused seek out dominants later in life.  However I am not sure how much I buy this theory.  There seems to be too much anecdotal evidence to deny it is a contributing factor, but that is not the whole story.  I believe the statistic is one fourth of all children are sexually abused (one-third of all girls), which means that give how small our community is I feel very confident saying that the majority of women who were once abused never have the faintest interest in becoming a submissive.  I'm not even sure that I believe the majority of women who are submissive were beaten, molested, or had some hard type of life.  It may seem that way, but I wonder if people just notice those who have these stories more.              I don't know of any studies that have looked at this issue.  I think that one would be wise to bear in mind that mainstream society looks unkindly on S&M and so characterizes people involved as mentally deficient in some way.  Certainly some of us are, but the same is true for every cross section of society.  In the end, with the exception of our sexual preferences (and maybe even including them), probably most of us are as “normal” as everyone else.



Thank you for starting this topic, as i often feel the same way.  i tend to think that the comment that those who have been abused seek out other ways to deal with pain, is a comment that is made by those who still believe the BDSM is wrong.
 
Yes, the fact is that there are many submissives and Dominants in this lifestyle who have been abused, but i agree with MistressDread... abused P/people are everywhere.  i'm not sure that a common thread can be drawn here.
 
Do W/we actually think that the percentage of people who have been abused is greater in O/our community?

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(in reply to Croctden)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 3:35:21 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Croctden
.              I don't know of any studies that have looked at this issue. 


I wanted to speak to the statistical side of this discussion.

Actually, MANY people have tried to do studies on this very phenom (as well as other aspects of the lifestyle). The problem lies in the quantification of the BDSM "community" as a variable. Most subcultures' members adhere to codified (or at least memorized) sets of rules that apply across the board within the subculture. They share a common lingo or jargon. They share similar sets of morals and beliefs about themselves and how they relate to the society they are within. This huge "we" that makes up the lifestyle, has very, very few characteristics that can define them as a subculture. So social scientists are forced back to square one in forming their hypothesis.

submissives... nope, that term won't work because the "community" you are studying does not agree on a definition for "submissive". People who enjoy pain... nope, this includes sexual masochists who do not identify as part of the community, and SIs who are not part of the community. People who enjoy letting others control them.... nope, again, this includes people outside the study group and excludes some within.

They end up narrowing the hypothesis to a rediculously intense focus "women, between the ages of 19 - 38, who derive fulfillment from consensually allowing their husbands to control the household finances and dinner menu, and also derive sexual gratification from being spanked with wooden spoons on Friday nights by said husband; have experienced physical abuse in their childhood." Even if held significant, there are numerous variables unaccounted for and wouldn't necessarily form a conclusive correlation.

Thus far, it has been nothing less than pulling teeth for social scientists to come up with any credible studies on participants in the lifestyle because those within the lifestyle cannot agree on definitions. One would be hard pressed to find a literary journal that will accept scientific articles on BDSM. It's not for lack of social scientists wanting to study. It's for lack of being able to quantify subjects up to APA and ASA standards, and being able to provide the quantitative details they require. So long as the BDSM community lacks at least one common thread across the board, very little can be done via research on the participants therein, and studies will continue to be slanted and skewed.

On the brighter side, the more of these narrowly focused articles that do manage to get published, the more evidence other social scientists will have to fall back on, and they can slowly widen the scope.

(Please note, this is not a "call" for us all to find a common bond. It's simply a reason why there is a lack of sociological studies about us.)

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IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to Croctden)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 4:24:37 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		          To the OP,  my submissive fantasies pre-date the abuse I dealt with in childhood, BUT there is a definite corelation between that abuse and the hard limits I have set on certain activities.

         What I find interesting (and I'm still working on it in my head) is how those experiences influenced my Dominant side.  I was never physically abusive in any of my previous relationships (assuming putting my fist through walls next to someones head doesn't count) but I was a miserable screaming bastard.  The outlet of topping a complete painslut seems to have removed those tendencies (knock on wood).

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 5:10:24 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		WIITWD - What the hell does this mean?  Seen it all over the damned place and can only come up with funny words for the letters...

As to the abuse concept... it's all relative tot he person involved... for some people, it's changing the outcome of the original act by doing it as a scene... for some it's cathartic... for some, well... we're just really sick bastards... LOL  You'd have to take this case by case... no one blanket will cover the whole spectrum of possibilities...

- Dustyn


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Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 5:19:48 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

WIITWD - What the hell does this mean?  Seen it all over the damned place and can only come up with funny words for the letters...

- Dustyn



    What It Is That We Do....   It's a nifty little phrase in my opinion and completely inane to others

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 5:47:25 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Am I a submissive because I was sexually molested as a child? I don't know. It started from as early as I can remember so it could have very easily bent me toward being submissive.

Since I in an abusive marriage for 26 years why would I be looking for a Dom? Isn't that enough abuse for anyone? My therapist actually asked me that. I believe that submissive women look for strong, dominant men. When you are a very naive 22 year old, like I was, you don't always recognize bluster for what it is. My husband found that abusing me was easier than being a grown up. I finally left him and had to work on the difference between being abused and consensually dominated. There is a huge difference between the behavior of an abuser and a caring, dominant person. Now that I've met some real Dom/mes, I can see the difference.

I wish I'd understood at 22 what I understand now at 51. I would have made much different choices.

(in reply to Croctden)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 6:04:02 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I was abused and I am not submissive in anyway.
Infact I think because of it I am more outspoken and demanding.
The power to overcome and adapt has made Me a strong willed person.

I have tried to be submissive and it just doesnt work for Me.



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Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 10:19:05 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		Ahhhh... I see now, said the blind man to his deaf wife...

figured it was something along those lines... kind of like the one I saw the other day...

WWJD... Who Would Jesus Dom... just had to laugh at that one...

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: BDSM and abuse - 5/2/2006 10:57:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

Ahhhh... I see now, said the blind man to his deaf wife...

figured it was something along those lines... kind of like the one I saw the other day...

WWJD... Who Would Jesus Dom... just had to laugh at that one...

- Dustyn



OMG that is funny...LOL

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 37
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