RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (Full Version)

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stella41b -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/14/2010 11:26:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

But then again, coming back to this, I have a funny feeling that the same sex couples issue isn't going to be resolved by any of these religions until they first resolve their issues relating to women.

Would you sketch out for me the connection you're making between "issues relating to women" and "same sex couples," in particular with respect to gay men?

K.




Yes, no problem. There appears to be a fallacy in religious thinking, especially pertaining to the Abrahamic religions where it would appear that 'in the image of' is seen as 'equal to' between God and Man, simply because Man has penis and semen - it would appear - and can create life. This would appear to elevate the heterosexual male to a somewhat higher status over others, and this is reflected in both the hierarchies and practices of all the three Abrahamic religions.

The only thing which appears to keep this thinking in place is tradition. There is neither moral nor any spiritual justification for such reasoning.

I cannot see any reason, for example, why a Catholic priest cannot be female. Neither granting equality to women nor extending the sanctity of marriage to non-heterosexuals takes anything away from the family unit or indeed anything from what is to me the most important and necessary role in society, that of a parent.

The way things are looking it's a denial of science and fact to the level of absurdity. The Catholic Church is an example of 'we are equal but some are more equal than others'. This is exactly what communism was like, the same structure, the same mind control, the same denial of fact, the same hierarchy.

There is very little difference indeed between Soviet communism and the Catholic Church as it exists today. However this is rejected as a viable form of government but remains unchallenged within the Church.

Now why is that?



breatheasone -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/14/2010 11:41:46 PM)

i have to chime in on this, i have NEVER seen reference in the Bible to man being equal to God because man has a penis and semen. Could you tell me where you may have heard this?



philosophy -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/14/2010 11:48:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i have to chime in on this, i have NEVER seen reference in the Bible to man being equal to God because man has a penis and semen. Could you tell me where you may have heard this?


....you're misinterpreting what has been suggested.

God creates man in the image of Himself.

Follow me so far?

Now, some muddle headed thinkers have confused this line with the idea that God is male.

So, we have a situation where God is conflated with man, by humans who haven't thought it through.

Do you get it now?

The error is not in the bible or the Word of God. The error is in interpretation by humans.



breatheasone -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/14/2010 11:53:46 PM)

Well, its cool... LOL, but when i saw that i just had a wtf moment.... Its past now, they always do. Didn't mean to intrude on the discussion.



Shiroka -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 12:08:14 AM)

Well as far as same sex marriage goes, it wouldn't bother me in the least. I would be very happy to one day be at my best friends wedding when she finds the right woman, the same would go for any male friends that wish to marry another man. what goes on in another persons room is none of my buisiness, they dont ask me about my bedroom life and I dont ask about theirs. It's just a personal respect thing.

I have lived in a state where in my late teens and early twenties, local organizations wanted to outright ban gays,lesbians,bisexuals,transgendered and transexuals and to also list them with child molesters.I thank goodness that those measure on the ballots got voted out.

I love all my friends regardless of who and what they are  love them for the people they are,not their orientation.

I am glad to see you posted this eyesopened it is a very good subject

Laws and religious beliefs should not govern what goes on in someones private life,gay,lesbian,hetero or otherwise. Love is love no matter who you are.



whynotletsgo -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 12:11:13 AM)

Cause they are locked into a stereotype and don't understand.



masterdave48161 -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 10:20:35 AM)

Could it be that people don't care to have it push on kids in the schools.

I wish the schools would go back and just teach the three R's.



Shiroka -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 10:35:32 AM)

I dont see it as something pushed on kids in a school. After all if things are being "puhsed" in schools, is it not unlike how in churches they preach that its wrong for people to have a realitionship the chruch does not agree with?

They teach in school the basics of sex education(at least in mine they did), but where does that leave those who are not straight? Kind of leaves them in a  rut to where they are having to go online to find things out or even worse end up fiding the  worst type of people to learn about it from.

So instead of "pushing" one basic mind set of sex ed, teach all aspects of it.

I know may who were so confused in schoold gorwing up becasue there were no resources for them to go to, to learn about these things.They felt as they said like "freaks". By the time they were old enough to be out on their own they had to go to alternative bookstores or nightclubs to find out there were others like them out there.

How is that acceptable? I feel it's not acceptable.For example if I had a child who was gay,lesbian,bi, anyhting,I would want them to be able to ask questions and not feel like they had to hide what they were feeling.

That's what "pushing" "one way and one way at all" is doing to younger and older people alike.

A man once said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".

There is nothing to fear about the orientation of another and I beleive its past time to educate there is more than heterosexuality in the world.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 10:36:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterdave48161

Could it be that people don't care to have it push on kids in the schools.

I wish the schools would go back and just teach the three R's.


Have what pushed on kids in schools? That some people are gay? Where exactly might it be "pushed?" History class? Math? English? It would be mentioned in health class (i.e. sex education) but stating that something exists is not "pushing" something onto someone else. If that were the case, birth control would be considered to be "pushed" on the kids. Sex education is typically age appropriate. When I was in the 5th grade (it is a little earlier now, but not much), the girls were given a "special" class where menstruation was explained. Very little discussion on sex. During that time, it wasn't necessary.

At the high school level, more detail is given and NEEDED. Why? Because far too many parents either choose not to have the conversation with their kids or just ignore it. Teens should not learn about sex on the street. As someone who has many teenagers asking questions about various sexual things, I give them truthful information.

Don't kids learn at some point in a current events class about the polygamists in the news? Harvey Milk (after all, he was a government official)? If explaining to "kids" that there are all types of people in the world and that they shouldn't be discriminated against because of those differences is viewed as "pushing" homosexuality on them, there is a bigger problem at play. Sex education is not a discussion about having sex. It discusses specifically how pregnancy occurs. There aren't discussions of foreplay, oral sex, anal sex or anything else (to my knowledge and I have a teenager), it is purely the scientific discussion about the fertilization process that creates a fetus.

So please, enlighten me, exactly how would it be "pushed" on children in schools?



Shiroka -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 10:44:28 AM)

LafayetteLady,

you have put it much better than I could.very well said.



stella41b -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 1:47:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterdave48161

Could it be that people don't care to have it push on kids in the schools.

I wish the schools would go back and just teach the three R's.


You can't push homosexuality on anyone. They either are or they're not, but in case they are, surely it's much better for them to have access to proper, reliable information, is it not?

I've actually run an LGBT focus group here in London and it had nothing to do with 'pushing' it on anyone. Raising awareness has got nothing to do with promoting such a lifestyle, but has much more to do with providing reliable information so that people can make their own choices. In fact I would say the primary function was to provide support.

It's the same argument here as with drugs. Young people will find out the information they want no matter but where would you rather the information come from? The school or even say a religious group or the Internet?

I'm not a parent, but if I were I know which source I would prefer.



AquaticSub -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 4:13:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterdave48161

Could it be that people don't care to have it push on kids in the schools.

I wish the schools would go back and just teach the three R's.


How on earth is allowing marriage pushing?

For crying out loud, nobody cares that nearly EVERYTHING pushes heterosexuality on kids. That's ok it seems. It's like when the fundamentalists want the creation story taught alongside the Big Bang but get really pissed at the idea of teaching other culture's creation myths as well.

Having a teacher go "Some people are straight, some people are gay, they can all get married and calling someone a fag isn't nice" isn't going to magically make little Tommy gay.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? (1/15/2010 6:20:04 PM)

If you want to get into what they are teaching in schools, how about this?

Why are they NOT teaching tolerance? Sure, they are taught that racism is wrong. They are taught that bullying is wrong. But that isn't tolerance. That isn't teaching them that everyone is different and it's those differences that makes our world what it is. How rare is it to see a story like the one about the mentally challenged kid who got to play some basketball WITH the full support of his team mates? Or about the times when nearly the entire student body has united so that the homosexual kids are permitted to bring the dates of their choice?

Going back to the three "Rs" stopped for one important reason. Too many ignorant, bigoted and racist parents refused to teach their kids the things that they needed to know.

For the record, they don't teach about "marriage" in school. They don't teach about "sex." There is no discussions about foreplay, getting your partner aroused, types of kisses, what is fellatio, what is cunninglingus. That is NOT taught in the classroom. The only "sex" that is taught is what needs to take place in order to create a child and the methods that are available (which is not always the case) to prevent that from happening.

Let's face it. Long before the kids get "sex ed" in school they pretty much know which parts "fit" together to have sex. So this whole concept of "pushing" homosexuality is a farce.



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