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litaTshai -> RE: Anger between two little words(slave or submissve) (1/20/2004 8:31:47 AM)
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this one is new here, and is a Gorean slave. she is not very familiar with BDSM, but has talked to many who have come to Gor frm BDSM (she trains slaves for her Home and her Mistress.
a while back there was a discussion on the boards about the differences between a D/s and a Gorean Master/slave relatiionship. a couple of articles on D/s relationships were posted, and one took them and layed out the differences.
one thought to re-post that here, thinking if the differences were clearly understood, the antagonism between the two groups might lessen some.
for what it is worth:
[b]The RESPONSIBILITIES and DUTIES of a DOM
Written by: LES IS MORE(m) Copyright©1998
Addendum -- additional thoughts supplied by Dominant Silent Intruder are enclosed with an *
A few personal speculations about the lifestyle and those who participate in it...what follows is my opinion and in no way states Mine is the only path to follow. there are many differing opinions out there and I suggest you seek them all. I use the male pronoun as I am MALE though a Dom or Domme is male or female. For expediency I will use the Word "Dominant" to describe what I see as The "Dominant/ Top/Dominatrix/Domina/Sadist/Master/Uber person" aspect Of what it is we do. And I will Be using the Term "Submissive" to describe the Submissive/Bottom/Slave/Puppy/Kajira and all of the other various forms of minion.
That clear what should a Dominant be? The question can only be answered individually, by both submissives and Dominants alike. But here is my rendition of what a Dominant should be.
The Dominant should be in control of himself first and foremost, He is confident, caring, and understanding, He does not allow ego to get in the way of learning, both about himself and his submissive, he knows how to love, And how to cherish the gift given to him.
When the Dominant meets a new submissive He is kind and guiding without demanding ritual of Her, He does not demand respect, he earns it, He explores her mind first, learning her strengths, He does not seek to seduce her, but gets to know her as a person first, building a relationship, slowly discovering if there is to be one.
If He is a Good Dominant he does not do this to gain another submissive, but because he is able to befriend someone, without the trappings of sexuality, He is not a predator, but a teacher, willing to pass his knowledge with little or no reward, but the pleasure of knowing he can, and the satisfaction of helping someone define their own path.
If the time comes when she offers herself to His service, The Dominant is the first to question her decision, to ask her to look into herself and discover if He is what she really wants, He is the first to mention Safety, to volunteer References, and to tell her to seek more, He supports safe calls and public meetings first, her safety is foremost in His mind at this beginning.
If He decides to take the submissive into service, he is the first to mention negotiation, to offer his own personal information, He realizes the danger she could be placed in the wrong hands, and seeks to Guide her in protecting herself, He does not dismiss her worries, for he knows her risks are all to real.
He Knows his safety also depends on Honesty, on communication, He is at first only as protective of himself he needs to need be, But open and Honest about his life, tastes, what he expects, he knows that she will be taking a leap of faith, and is supportive of her.
To possess her he Knows he must first earns her respect, to do this He must prove he is what he says he is, that he cares for her, that he would push her limits only to build her strengths, that he is willing to spend the time to learn her as a Person first, then as a submissive, He knows how wonderful this gift is that she offers, and is willing to live up to her trust in him.
To this end, He talks with her, learning her secret needs and desires, and in turn expressing his own, always ready to affirm her worth, to him, and to herself, increasing her confidence in herself, and in the gift she gives, gently pushing her limits to show her she can be more than she feels she is, that she can go farther than she ever thought possible, Slowly opening the flower of her submission, coaxing her passion for him into full bloom.
If she lacks self esteem he shows her he respects her, and finds her worthwhile to devote his time to, He shows her she has beauty in his eyes, thus she is beautiful, He focuses on her strengths, to show her of her own power, He softly explains that the gift she gives is the most wonderful gift of all, Herself He takes the time to learn her Soul, before thinking of learning her body, as the Dominant learns his new submissive, a connection takes place. allowing Him to sense her desires, her needs, her passions. With this new knowledge, the Dominant is able to take his Submissive to new heights of pleasure, to guide her, walk with her as they, together seek new levels of love and fulfillment.
In taking a submissive into his service the Dominant takes on many responsibilities, He pledges to Help Guide her in her path, not only in the bedroom, but in life, He pledges to be there for her when she needs Him, to care for her, ease her pain when she is depressed, comfort her when she is ill, assist her in overcoming her fears and worries, to hold and Love her when she needs affection.
He does this Because he can, for this is his gift to her, Her gift given willingly, his returned with joy, He seeks to understand her mind, to gaze into her soul, because only then can the two become more than each can be as individuals. she is his most precious possession and he strives to prove his love, much the way she will, everyday.
The Dominant does not seek to change His submissive into what he wants, but revels in the chance to show her what she can become, He enjoys showing her those strengths she already possesses, and guides her only, helping her to grow into the person she wishes to be, coaxing her into finding her own path, but never stating outright what that path should be, although once found, He will keep her to her task, gently pushing her to become the woman He Knows she can be.
Is there a profile of the perfect Dominant? I think not, perfection is something we all strive to obtain, but never reach, it is the struggle to find perfection that makes a Good Dominant. There is no one description of a Good Dominant, Like art Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so no viewpoint is wrong, merely different, all that can be said is that a Good Dominant should have Good qualities, that include Strength, ability, confidence, control, the ability to learn and the presence of mind to know that he can always learn more. He should be Loving, encouraging, Honorable and chivalrous, he should respect people and cherish those who fall within His thrall and show the respect to others that he himself wishes to be shown.
The Dominant should be sure of himself, and in that confidence not think that to build himself he must look down upon others, he should be sure of his Ideals, but not so sure that His way is the only Path, he can allow others to follow their own paths, no matter how different, without ridicule, If he witness's a wrong or a danger he seeks to right it, But without pressing the view that his way is the only one, only expressing the danger of another's action or offering his assistance to help guide them out of danger.
He knows the difference between Punishment and play, Between Pain and Sensation He never exerts his power in anger, He never brings anger and hostility into a Scene, He does not use this gift to vent his anger, but leaves outside concerns outside, He knows that to control others he must first master himself.
He can exercise his art to help his submissive become the woman she has always been, deep within her spirit. He takes her gift of submission seriously, knowing that it is not given blindly or lightly. He always remembers how precious the gift is, how rare it is, how beautiful it is. For she has given him something that cannot be taken, but must be given, the gift of herself, her soul, and the Dominant should cherish that Gift, as the rare jewel it is.
The submissive should be firm in her conviction, She offers herself to the Dominant freely, of her own choosing. She gives the gift of her submission in exchange for his love, care, Knowledge and protection. She obeys because she chooses to, not because she is forced to .
She comes to him a woman, but unsure of her role. seeking His guidance, quick learn what is expected of her. With this learning, and as he opens Himself to her, she begins to give more of herself, of her soul, her secrets, until all the two can share is learned, Building their relationship, sharing their secrets and souls, so they may walk this path together. There is no power lost, no control wrested from her, she gives willingly, the Dominant giving of himself until An immense measure of trust is built between the two, the sub must trust her Dominant completely in order to give him so much of herself, and the Dominant must trust the sub in order for him to accept her and her gift.
"Training" (just another word for teaching) is only the process of learning what the individual Dominant desires. The sub must learn when to kneel, how to sit to please her Dominant, how to address her Dominant, and so on. She does these things because she wishes to, she wish is to please her Dominant in all ways possible. Even the most "bratty" submissive comes to know just what is expected of her and what her Dominant's limits are.
It is said By some that the Dominant holds all of the control, and in some ways he does, but this is a consensual relationship, The dominant holds control, only as far as the Submissive is willing to go, He may Push her limits, But for the pleasure of both, the Submissive can walk away at anytime, hard as that maybe, If the Dominant loses sight of her needs. Some observe that because of safe words the submissive holds the reins, But the Question I ask is this, Who is the the one the submissive comes to for this experience? So who is in control?
It is said that the submissive has no responsibilities, that the Dominant holds all the responsibilities; however, deeper observation shows otherwise. many of the submissives responsibilities are so subtle as to be overlooked. She must please her Dominant, She must act as He would wish, as her every action reflects on Her Dominant, She must uphold his Honor, as He Must Uphold hers and protect her.
She must have Faith and Trust in her Dominant, Just as he must prove her trust well founded, She needs the strength of will to Know when Her Dominant is acting in Her best interests, and be willing, without embarrassment, to Do as he asks her within her limits, because that is what her Dominant wants, and what she wishes, to please him she would do that which seems Difficult and even embarrassing at the time, She must not Follow blindly, But see that what her Dominant asks of her is for the pleasure of them both.
At times the Dominant may understand that the sub can go farther that she thought, and with the use of safewords, he is able to take her there. For the beginning of all relationships it is most important to abide by the perceived limits, it must be taken slowly.Because at this tender period, If a safeword is used and the Dominant does not heed the sub's perceived limit, then an important trust is broken.
The use of safewords should be stressed in any new relationship so that the trust and understanding are able to grow. With time and understanding, however, the two can reach a point where the Dominant knows how far the sub can go physically, emotionally, and spiritually and the sub can come to trust her Dominant's decisions.
Even then a Safeword is still an important safety net, It can be dropped in session, But a worthy Dominant Still holds the value of using safewords in new and uncharted territory, even in a Long standing and trusting relationship, The caring Dominant Knows he cannot read minds, even if he knows His submissive extremely well.
The submissive has a wonderful role to live with the right Dominant. With him, she will grow emotionally and spiritually into what she wishes to become, learn to love freely and unconditionally and find the true power deep within her. The Dominant also becomes the man he feels within his soul, proud to be able to walk the honorable path of Teacher, Poet, Warrior and Protector, Proud of his charge and the pleasure she brings him, together the two will embark on a journey that will take them out of the realms and limits of society and into the timeless dimensions of the Universe.
Dominant's Creed
Author Unknown
Above all else a Dom/me cherishes Their submissive, in the knowledge that the gift the submissive gives Them is the greatest gift of all.
A Dom/me is demanding and takes full advantage of the power given to Them, but knows how to share the pleasure that comes from that precious gift.
A Dom/me is in control of Themselves first and foremost, so that They may control others.
As a stern and demanding Dom/me, They can cause Their submissive to cry real tears.
As the consummate lover, They will then kiss the tears away, without stepping out of character.
In times of trouble, a Dom/me will leave the roles behind, to be a supportive friend and partner, never forgetting that this is still a loving relationship between two caring individuals.
A Dom/me is quick to understand the differences between fantasy and reality.
A Dom/me would never asks a submissive to put Them before their career, or family, just to satisfy Their own pleasure.
To win a submissive's mind, body, spirit, soul, and love, a Dom/me knows They must first win their trust.
A Dom/me will show Their submissive humour, kindness, and warmth.
A Dom/me must always show them that Their guidance and tutoring is knowledgeable and deserving of their attention, that this is a person they can learn from, and that they can trust Their direction.
A Dom/me is romantic enough to be protective and chivalrous. When called upon, They will fight for Their submissive's honour.
A Dom/me proves to their submissive that They are someone they can lean on, and depend on.
When it comes time to teach Their submissive their lessons of obedience, They are a strong and unyielding professor.
A Dom/me will accept no flaw. Nothing less than perfection from Their student.
Never does a Dom/me use discipline without a good reason. When They do punish Their submissive, it is always with a knowledgeable and careful hand.
A Dom/me is always open to communication and discussion; always ready to hear Their submissive's wants and needs.
A Dom/me is patient; taking time to learn Their submissive's limits, and knowing that as their trust of Them grows, so will they.
A Dom/me never has to demand ritual behavior from Their submissive. Their submissive responds to Them out of the want of pleasing Them. Compliance comes from the wanting to please, not the fear of punishment.
A Dom/me understands the fragile nature of mind and body and never violates the trust given to Them.
A Dom/me is secure enough to laugh at Themselves and the absurdities of life. Open minded enough to learn new things. Strong enough to grow.
A Dom/me's tools are mind, body, spirit, soul, and love.
A Dom/me understands that E/each partner gains most from pleasuring the O/other.
And B/both of T/them know that love and trust are the only bindings that truly hold.
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From the point of View of Gorean Slavery
Characteristics of a Master
- 1) Honor.. in all
2) Dominance.. of himself and of those who depend on his command
3) Consistency.. in his dealings with freepersons and slaves
4) Strength.. to not be swayed from his principles
5) Self-assured.. not dependent on others for approval
6) Curiosity.. to delve into the individual
7) Wisdom.. to understand what curiosity has discovered
8) Maturity.. to understand, but not misuse, the power of his Mastery
9) Sensitivity.. to have interest in, and to listen keenly for the concerns and issues of his slave
10) Compassion.. to hear the true feelings of his slaves, and to deal fairly with issues raised, within the confines of his principles and command
11) Accountability.. to accept the responsibility for the behavior of his slave and himself... to accept responsibility for the safety and security of his slave.. and to deal honorably with any issues that arise for either concern
12) Courage.. to stand up for principles and honor.. and, courage to stand and admit a mistake when he recognizes one has been made
13) Advocate.. for the endurance and prosperity of gorean culture
14) Ally.. standing shoulder to shoulder with other advocates of Gor 1
15) Mentor.. to others who have need of his example
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Essay Directed to slaves by Master Marcus of Ar
Greetings, slaves.
It seems wise and pertinent that I address a few minor issues which have repeatedly surfaced, in various forms, throughout every online medium which purports itself to be "Gorean." It is time, I suspect, for someone to lift a hefty dollop of "truth" and smack you all upside your pretty little heads with it. Hence, this post. I think it is safe to say that the majority of Gorean Men who post here, and who practice aspects of the Gorean philosophy both on or offline, will fundamentally agree with what I say here. If they do not, well... you can't make an omelet without breaking a few vulo eggs, and you can't enlighten a group of people about anything without breaking a few balls. Therefore, listen, and learn.
Slaves! You are "slaves" because you have chosen to be, for whatever reason seemed good to you. No one chained you up and dragged you from your dorm room or kitchen or den, drugged you with capture scent, and shipped you off to another planet. You can leave at any time. If you don't like being treated like a slave, then you really ought to go find something else to occupy your time, and quit wasting ours.
Slaves! Consider that word. Weigh its meaning. It indicates that you have entered a state of being where you will behave as commanded, do as you are told, and strive to fulfill that role in our mutual society.
Slaves are not princesses, they are not love-toys, they are not beloved and treasured pets. If your owner chooses to treat you in that manner, then that is his own business; but not ALL of us will do so. By accepting the chain and collar of slavery you have stripped yourself of all value and worth, and it is now up to you to fulfill your new role and to render service to those who have NOT chosen to wear the collar. If you don't like this, and cannot handle it for whatever reason, go away.
Slaves! Either accept what you have volunteered to become, or cease claiming to be what you are too weak and willful to actually be. I didn't invite you to this party. I didn't wheedle you and coerce you into calling yourself a "slave." I didn't beg and whine for you to fall at my feet. I am Gorean, and Gorean males do not do that, ever. If we were to do that, we would be insulting what we are, Men, and would be no different than the knock-kneed, cringing, self-absorbed males which you can encounter at every mall, convenience store and nightclub in the world. If that is what you desire, then go seek it! It is right outside your door, and has always been. Go away and practice your wiles against those who are too stupid to recognize such manipulation for what it is. But do not bitch and moan because such tactics do not work with myself or my fellows.
Slaves! I do not need you. I do not want you. You could all drop off the planet at the stroke of midnight and I would continue to do what I do, and go right on being the Man I am. I do not define myself according to the whims of women. I do accept any female's definition of what makes a man a man. If there were no self-proclaimed female slaves in existence upon this planet I would not bat an eyelash. There are more important things in life to consider than what exists between a woman's legs. If that is the only way you can be of worth to me, then you cannot ever be of worth to me. And the only way you might ever coerce me to do what you want is by offering youself to me sexually. That is the only power you actually wield. And if such an offer is brought to my attention, and I suspect that it is an attempt to bend me to your will, I simply will not take you up on it. There are more important things in this world than a few short Ehn of fumbling about in a slippery hole. You cannot control me through the offer of sex; hence, you cannot control me at all, ever. The game is over before it begins, and I have already won it.
Slaves! When you accept the collar and proclaim yourself slave you surrender yourself, completely, wholly, unreservedly. You become property. You become a thing, worthy of nothing. You give up all pretense of respect, all assumed rights, all dignity. Once this has occurred, you then rebuild yourself according to the desires and wishes of he who owns you, and by so doing you EARN every modicum or respect, love and devotion which comes to you. You do not become worthy of my attention simply by saying the words "Yes, Master." You earn that attention through deeds, not empty words and silly poses designed to entice me. I am Gorean. I am not enticable. I will take from you what I want, and that only when you have pleased me enough that I choose to do so.
Slaves! You have voluntarily chosen the most difficult of paths for yourself. There will be no shoulders for you to cry upon, no helping hands to guide you forward, unless extended by men who find it pleasing to do so. You have willfully surrendered all rights to such comforts, and pats on the head, and rewards. You have submitted. And in my presence, you will continue to submit, or else I shall cast you away and engage my time in more profitable pursuits.
Slaves! Why would anyone want to do what you have done? Why would anyone claim to be what you have claimed to be, who was not? The only valid reason for doing so is that you ARE what you claim to be, in your heart, in the depths of your belly, in every inch of you and every freckle and blemish on your body. For if you are NOT a slave, and you choose to call yourself one, you are committing a grievous error. If so, you have chosen to suffer what you should not have to suffer. If you are not what you claim to be, you have surrendered yourself to a lie.
Slaves! You will do as instructed. You will behave as commanded. You will be worthy of my time and attention, or else you will be erased from existence. Fail and I will never acknowledge you again. Fail, and suffer forever as an "almost" in a society which doesn't understand you. Find males who will pretend to be strong enough to control you, then, and hate me for my arrogance and for the fact that I simply do not NEED you, nor will I ever. When I acknowledge a slave it is because it pleases me to do so. If I find a slave who is honest, and true, and real, then I will acknowledge her NOT because I need her, but because I WANT her. If that happens, then you will have succeeded. You will have come from nothing and proved yourself to be of value, and to have worth.
Slaves! If slaves you are, then I wish you luck. If slaves you are not, then I hope that you will alter your course and flee, as fast as you can, before you embarrass yourselves and insult those who are wise enough to recognize true submission in a true slave, and before you do injury to the other females who truly are what you can only ever claim to be. Slaves! Be slaves, or leave my presence. I am Gorean. I do not make allowances, nor bend, nor bow, nor will I ever. I did not invite you to kneel and wear a collar. Therefore, your complaints and whining mean nothing to me. There are only two choices: Fight, or yield. And if you yield: submit, totally, or be erased. Compromise is not an option. Ever. If that's too rough and tough for your delicate sensibilities, run away as fast as your legs will carry you. And have no fear! I won't chase you or try to bring you back. I have better things to do with my time.
I wish you well,
_Marcus_
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lita{Tshai}'s Response
greetings, sisters,
thanks wren for posting the stuff from the Central Fire. girl was about to do that when she saw your post! *LOL*
wise words, all. and much food for thought, which is good for us. keeps us off the streets & out of trouble, for this one at least can't walk and think at the same time! *giggle*
one does wish to point out some things though. The two articles lina posted are definitely geared to D/s relationships, and there is a very big difference between a submissive and a slave, and a Dom and a gorean Master.
first off, the submissive submits. the slave surrenders....totally. in a Dom/sub relationship, the submissive is actually the one in control. she has, and uses, the safe words. she says what can and will, or cannot and will not happen. for a Gorean slave there ARE no safe words, the Master/Mistress is in total control and from the moment the girl begs a collar, she has no more choices unless her Owner chooses to give her one now and again as a reward.
the Dom/sub relationship is almost totally about sex. while sex is an important part of a Master/slave relationship on Gor, that is not what the relationship is about, it is not the focus. In fact, this girl knows many of the best Masters and Mistresses Who do not use Their slaves sexually at all, either on-line or off-line.
it says a Dom earns respect. Not so the Gorean Free. They demand and are due respect, simply because of what They are. They may earn a higher level of respect from a slave due to their honorable and proper Gorean behavior, but even if One has raised being a jerk to an art form, He/She is still due the basic respect all Free merit because They are Free.
it says the Dom is the first to offer negotiation. for a slave, there IS no negotiation. you either beg a collar and accept whatever the Free wishes, or you do not beg the collar. as slave, you have no right to negotiate anything. if the meeting is to be r/t, yes, you do need to discuss safety isssues, however a True Master/Mistress will set those up without even being asked.
It says the Dom must prove what He is, earn her respect, prove that He cares for her. Not so the Gorean Free. They are DUE respect, They have to prove nothing, and there is no obligation whatsoever that They care for their slave any more than any other piece of property, i. e. Their car or Their dog.
The Gorean Free may demand all the girl's secrets. He/She is under no obligation to share Theirs. if They choose to do so, it is an honor to the kajira.
They need not reassure or affirm the slave's self-esteem, value, or self-worth, anymore than They need re-assure the living room couch of its value to them. The mere fact that they haven't thrown it out is re-assurance enough.
The Gorean Free is not obligated to respect a slave, or consider her wishes in allotting time to her. and her surrender is not a gift, it is merely what the Free is due from what They own.
The Gorean Free does have responsibilities to/for what They own, just as any person has the responsibility to properly care for a house, or a car, or a pet. However should a Free choose NOT to care for Their property, They may not be chastized, co-erced, or forced into doing so, any more than an person may be chastized for not taking what others might consider proper care of their clothing or furniture. Should the Free choose to do these things for and give these things to what They own, these things are gifts beyond price, and the slave should be grateful accordingly.
It says the Dom does not seek to change the submissive. The Gorean Free has the right to make Their slave into whatever They wish her to be. and again, the slave has no choice but to become what the Free wishes. and yes, the Gorean Free Man or Woman should have the characteristics of a Master as listed on the Central Fire. and a slave is wise if she can and does look for these before begging a collar. for it is too late to change her mind once the collar locks about her throat. again, a slave's surrender is not a gift, but a payment of what is due and owing.
It says a Dom must win a submissive's trust, heart, mind, body and soul. Not so a Gorean Free. the slave must surrender that totally, without expecting any return.
it says a Dom is Romantic and Chivalrous, and at times will fight to protect a submissive's honor. A Gorean Free has no obligation to be romantic or chivalrous. as for fighting for a slave's honor, therre are Some Who argue that a slave does not and cannot have honor, they can only BRING honor to their Owner. In any case, the Free has no responsibility to fight for the putative honor of a slave.
It says a Dom takes time to learn the submissive's limits. a slave cannot set limits. if she has chosen wisely her Owner will set limits for her.
so yes, while these two articles do provide a great deal of wise comment, one needs to remember at all times that there are VAST differrences between a D/s relationship, and a Gorean Owner/slave relationship.
these thoughts are the result of the study and learning of a slave, and carry only such value as the Free may choose to give them.
one wishes all well, enough, and great joy.
respectfully submitted,
lita {Tshai}
Tshai's First Girl
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one does not know if this will be of any help or not, but thought it might add to the discussion at least.
one wishes All here well, enough, and great joy
respectfully submitted,
lita {Tshai}
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