Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 7:53:21 AM)

To anyone who wants legal pot, don't you realize for what you ask ? For example take cigarettes. Cigarette smokers must be the most heavily taxed people in this country.

So legalize it and tax it right ? Well they are not as stupid as they seem. They know people pay $200-400 an ounce and higher, and even though mass production will bring those costs down to pennies per ounce, it will still be taxed to whatever level the market will bear.

Let's put it this way, cigarettes cost way less than a dollar a pack to produce. Now how much do they cost in Illinois ? Anything we want or need, they want their fingers in the pie. Would someone like to speculate on the true cost of a gallon of gasoline before any taxes are applied ?

The same is true of anything. Even food. You work for Millbrook Bread. You make say $15 per hour, how much of that do you take home ? Is that extra money not a tax ? But they don't want to tax food, at least in Ohio, but all that means is food is not subject to sales tax, that is all. And that is not even a big part of it. That company has to deal with taxes and unreasonable regulations and pays fines, even though their product is exempt from sales tax.

Now you take something like pot, think about what they did to the cost of a packet of cigarettes and do the math. It will still be $200-400 an ounce, and all but about a buck or two will be taxes. As usual part of that tax revenue will be used to enforce the taxes. It's like paying a ridiculous amount to get license plates, so they can hire more cops to make sure your license plates are valid.

Then like nicotine, they will do to these legal corporations what they did to the tobacco companies. Any little bit of money the real gangsters leave for those who produce the product will be taken away by deception.

But this time, they will make the manufacturers state the THC level in the product, and require the number to be true. This will require manipulation on the part of the pot companies. A bit later they will accuse them of doing it for profit, when the fact is the law required them to do it. Goodbye nest egg.

This is what they do. And it is cheaper and easier to grow pot than tobacco. There will still be a black market, because some will opt for exotic stuff instead of the overpriced domestic. As in anything else they will drive the producers out of the country and the end result will be that most of the pot sold legally in this country will have been grown in China. You think I'm kidding ?

The fact is that they will keep doing what they have been doing all along. The only difference will be is if busted with pot, you will be indemnified if you have a tax stamp on the container of weed. If you don't and the pot if found to be untaxed, the penalties will most likely be worse than they are now.

Is that what we want ?

T




Kirata -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:01:23 AM)

I think you're just ranting...

My pessimism extends to the point of even suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists. ~Jean Rostand

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Is that what we want ?

Compared to the present situation, yep! [:D]

K.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:06:34 AM)

yeah, it is.

After watching the recent movie about Harvey Milk last night...yeah, it is.

Having entire groups of folks demonize you, arrest you and continue to support prohibition legislation that at it's inception was blatanly bigoted needs to stop.






Termyn8or -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:26:03 AM)

FR

Kirata, of course it was a rant. But in response I say this : Let's say the cigarette tax is lower in my state. I just buy the smokes and take them to another state and have a ready made business. Until I get busted. Wait, cigarettes are LEGAL ! Well at least we thought so.

Beth, I haven't seen it. A quick search revealed a gay guy, something about fighting federal law and this and that. At first I thought it pertained to the selling of raw milk. By the way, raw milk is a natural product, and has nourished generations before us. But now if you get caught selling it out in the open they come down on you like you are moving a million hits of ecstacy. This is not BS, they have SWAT teams. Why is it illegal to sell raw milk ?

I would appreciate some enlightenment on this Harvey Milk thing, I get the idea from the quick search that this was some guy's name ? Or something. Maybe I should just download it and see for myself, but that could take days. At this point any other info would be appreciated.

T




tazzygirl -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:33:34 AM)

People have been drinking raw milk for a long time, of course — at least since sheep and goats were domesticated in the 8th or 9th century B.C. Raw milk is rich in protein and fat, and milk from cows became a staple of the American diet in colonial times. When milk leaves the animal, however, it can also contain any number of pathogens, which is why most doctors consider pasteurization — subjecting milk to a short burst of heat followed by rapid cooling — one of the great public-health success stories of the 20th century. By eliminating most of the pathogens that cause disease, including E. coli, salmonella and listeria, they say, pasteurization has helped lower infectious-disease rates in the U.S. more than 90% over the past century.

Raw-milk enthusiasts have a different perspective. They insist that along with the bad pathogens, heat-treating milk destroys beneficial bacteria, proteins and enzymes that aid in digestion. Some people with a history of digestive-tract problems, such as Crohn's disease, swear by the curative powers of unpasteurized milk. Others praise its nutritional value and its ability to strengthen the immune system. "I have seen so many of my patients recover their health with raw milk that I perceive this as one of the most profoundly healthy foods you can consume," says Dr. Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician and author who rails against the medical establishment on his website, mercola.com.

All of which has created a simmering problem for health officials. While the U.S. has no laws against gulping milk straight from cows, the government's stance on controlling the sale of raw milk is far murkier. The Food and Drug Administration, which recently determined that it's safe to drink the milk of cloned cows, takes a tougher stand on unprocessed milk. It banned interstate sales of raw milk 20 years ago but left it up to individual states to decide what to do about commerce within their borders. The result is a hodgepodge of conflicting rules and loopholes big enough to drive a milk truck through. While 23 states, including Michigan, officially prohibit raw-milk sales for human consumption, the rest allow money to exchange hands under certain conditions. In California, raw dairy products are available in grocery stores, while Illinois consumers can buy them directly from farms if they bring their own containers. An increasingly popular arrangement designed to circumvent state restrictions is a so-called herd-sharing program, like Hebron's, which requires members to, in effect, lease a portion of a cow — for $20 a year, in his case — and sign an agreement opposing "all governmental standards for food, preparation, storage and safety." The $6.25-per-gal. charge is technically not a sale but compensation to cover board and transport costs.

Some raw advocates believe it's the emergence of these cow-sharing schemes in the past few years that has prompted state agriculture officials to crack down. Columbus, Ohio, attorney David G. Cox says he has represented six raw-dairy producers over the past year for alleged illegal sales, some of whom have been in business for decades without incident. "There seems to be an orchestrated effort to dry up the supply," he says. "I suspect that conventional dairy producers are concerned that if [raw milk] were widely available and people got sick, all milk would get a bad name and the whole industry would suffer."



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1598525,00.html#ixzz0cbaB1Sic

An interesting article.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:46:17 AM)

quote:

...I would appreciate some enlightenment on this Harvey Milk thing, I get the idea from the quick search that this was some guy's name ? Or something. Maybe I should just download it and see for myself, but that could take days. At this point any other info would be appreciated...


there were themes in the movie that struck this slave as similar to the themes brought into play when cannabis was prohibited...also of those who leave their closet and speak out, go to jail for and even die to protest discrimination that infringes on an individual's rights.




UncleNasty -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 9:16:37 AM)

The best writing I have found on how our drug laws came to be, what is wrong with them, and the difficulties in having them over turned, was a fellow named Peter McWilliams in a book titled "Ain't Nobodies Business If You Do." The book was generally about the absurdity of "consentual crimes," but he spent time on drugs specifically, and used gov't stats to disprove the argument of the religious right and conservatives in general.

Such is available online at no charge: www.petermcwilliams.com  (and if that doesn't work I'm google will to the right place)

McWilliams died in the late 90's by aspirating his own vomit. A very bizare combination of events.

He was suffering from the cancer/s associated with AIDS (yes, he was gay and had AIDS). In an effort to combat nusea from chemotherapy, and to increase his appetite, he was smoking pot. Eventually he was arrested (perhaps because he was a bit of a lightning rod). The judge in his case let him off pretty easy in the trial, but also warned he'd lock him up and throw away the key were he caught doing same again.

So, an effective treatment to the after effects of his disease treatment was denied him, legally speaking. As a result he threw up, choked and died. That is obscene.

Uncle Nasty




Termyn8or -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:01:19 PM)

Good point UN, but not even the tip of the iceberg. About a quarter million people are killed by doctors/staff per year. This is from their own figures :

106,000 by negative effect of drugs

80,000 by infections in hospitals

45,000 Other errors in hospitals

12,000 Unnecessary surgery

7,000 Medication errors, hospitals

These are their own estimates. No argument against totally removing all pot law will stand to me. Think of it this way, do you think 106,000 people died from smoking pot ? Now don't count gang and cop shootings, I mean died from the pot itself - IN ONE YEAR.

And I mean totally, not taxes or any of that ripping another hole in our pockets. However as I may have successfully expressed, simple legalization just doesn't cut it. They would tax the air if they could. Actually I do believe they are working on that right now. Cap and trade my ass. Cap from these people means like the guy on a streecorner with three caps and you have to guess which one the nickel is under. Well they've taken the nickel.

Laws are supposed to be for impportant things. Now they design laws specifically for the purpose of enticing certain entities to buy the "right" to break the law ? And just who's air are they taxing in the first place ?

T




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:31:09 PM)

As far as I'm concerned they can legalize and tax it.

It's different than cigarettes in that pot is only psychologically addictive, as in it's easier to quit pot than alcohol or cigarettes. So, I'd prefer people smoke pot sometimes, instead of alcohol every time they go out.

I used to smoke pot, I haven't in a long time though, if it were legal I'd probably smoke it a couple times a year, about as often as I drink alcohol.

It should be legal, it's less addictive, it's less toxic, the vast majority of the population has smoked it at one time or another. So, what's the point of keeping it illegal.

On top of it, the pot heads, or at least some of them, would finally have a business they could participate in with vigor and love. Pot bars. The welfare roles will probably fall just from that factor alone. Hard core stoners have a hard time finding employment in the present environment.






Silence8 -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/14/2010 8:38:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

So legalize it and tax it right ? Well they are not as stupid as they seem. They know people pay $200-400 an ounce and higher, and even though mass production will bring those costs down to pennies per ounce, it will still be taxed to whatever level the market will bear.

T


I predicted previously that the quality or value would go up and the price would go down, and I still think that.

The tax would have a breaking point similar to the current law. If the tax were inordinate, identical product would be sold legally and illegally for different prices, and the illegal price would still be lower than the current illegal price.




housesub4you -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/15/2010 1:44:16 PM)

Here is why I don't drink raw milk, the data is old, and new studies being done show that over half of the dairy cattle in the USA have this disease.  Whenever you see a dairy cow and the back bones are sticking out, they have it, it's the dairy cow verison of wasting disease. 


http://animalscience.tamu.edu/images/pdf/dairy/dairy-bovine-paratuberculosis.pdf




eyesopened -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/15/2010 3:03:57 PM)

I have never seen any evidence to suggest marijuana is any more or less equivelent to alcohol.  People with addictive tendancy will (and do) abuse pot in the same way people abuse alcohol.  People get into cars and drive while high just like people drive drunk.  People will toke up a family picnics the same as enjoy a beer.

The problem is that people have to engage in a criminal activity to obtain pot and thereby often expose themselves to criminals who deal more than just weed and commit crimes that go beyond selling weed.

I smoke cigarettes.  I'm addicted.  I do not smoke marijuana.  But in my perfect world, cigarettes would be the illegal of the two.  Cigarettes are dangerous, deadly, and proven highly addictive.  Marijuana is much safer.  (And yes, there are people who are addicted to pot and alcohol, and there are people who are addicted to gambling, and video games or anything that triggers the pleasure receptors in the brain.)




thompsonx -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/15/2010 3:36:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I have never seen any evidence to suggest marijuana is any more or less equivelent to alcohol.  People with addictive tendancy will (and do) abuse pot in the same way people abuse alcohol.  People get into cars and drive while high just like people drive drunk.  People will toke up a family picnics the same as enjoy a beer.

The problem is that people have to engage in a criminal activity to obtain pot and thereby often expose themselves to criminals who deal more than just weed and commit crimes that go beyond selling weed.

I smoke cigarettes.  I'm addicted.  I do not smoke marijuana.  But in my perfect world, cigarettes would be the illegal of the two.  Cigarettes are dangerous, deadly, and proven highly addictive.  Marijuana is much safer.  (And yes, there are people who are addicted to pot and alcohol, and there are people who are addicted to gambling, and video games or anything that triggers the pleasure receptors in the brain.)



I'm addicted to sex[:D]

HST




Dominasola -> RE: Legalize pot ? Are you kidding me ? (1/15/2010 7:42:11 PM)

The government may as well make EVERYTHING illegal so that we wouldn't have to pay taxes on anything... [8|]




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