RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (Full Version)

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SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 4:55:44 PM)

So what is the UN for then? They should just rename it 'The League of Nations Against Iran and other Terrorist States.' LONAIAOTS



Thadius -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 4:57:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Philosophy. YES!! Words and promises from people who have no authority to make them are worthless. What do you not understand about that? Why are you confused about that? Obama (any US president) is not a king, he does not rule by decree.

How can you actually be confused about this?


I don't know about that one. At least as it relates to "global warming". The Carol Browner has already stated that if the Congress doesn't do it, they will attempt to use the EPA to reach such goals and regulations. If that is doable, only the courts and time will tell. I take comments like that very seriously.



luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 4:58:00 PM)

Well since you are comparing yourself and your level of comprehension to PAhunk and Realone, I understand your confusion.

Why would the definition of head of state in a different country be relevant?, we are talking about the President of the USA.

Your charge of hypocrisy is just pathetic. and false. And since you define yourself in the same leauge as PA and RO, there is no surprise that you will not back up your accusation. I know its a waste to ask, but specifically which poster(s) are you refering to?



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:07:34 PM)

Good job Russia didn't realise TPOTUS was actually impotent when it came to singing stuff, back in the day.

Probably they would have seen it as double dealing. How could anyone believe a reduction of warheads if the leader had no authority to commit to one?



luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:13:17 PM)

Sl4v, START was ratified by the Senate.....

The president negotiates treaties, then takes them to the Senate for ratification, IF ratified they become law.

What is confusing about that?


leftists are so funny when they try to backpedal this stuff. They just demonstrate thier ignorance.



luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:14:41 PM)

I am not sure what you are asking about the UN...



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:22:52 PM)

So if START failed to be ratified after signing the deal then how would that look. Or are you saying he only signs such things after they've been ratified first? Even though such events are often called/held at crisis points and so on short notice.

What I ask about the UN is obvious because if you say diplomats have no realistic power to agree to anything then the whole thing becomes defunct and it isn't then surprising why China, Russia et al never agree with the US when things need doing. You get out of it what you put in and if you undermine it by not sticking to agreements reached then it can't be expected to come to your aid in other areas.

Simplez



LadyEllen -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:27:24 PM)

dont bring African immigrants into this SL4V - thats vill only complexicates ze whole things for ze septics, who are as ve say; simples

E



popeye1250 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:29:10 PM)

When Clinton was president Hillary used to go around making "pledges" of hundreds of millions of dollars of Taxpayer money to foreign countries too.
I forget who said it but when asked about that one congressman simply said; "The congress holds the purse strings not Hillary, she can "pledge" whatever she wants!"
On the News during Copenhagen Hillary "pledged" I believe $100 million." Well, good luck with that!
Does she think the 435 people in the House are even going to bring this up much less vote for it?
When a used car salesman tells you, "a little old lady drove this car to church only" do you believe them?
President Obama probably just wanted to get out of Copenhagen.
"Yeah sure, *80% reduction in six months, no problem tell my sec. of state." "Anything else? Anyone need $10 or $20 billion?"
They know right when they're "pledging" that it's never going to happen!



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:30:18 PM)

Compare the meerkat![:D]



LadyEllen -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:33:56 PM)

I have to wonder quite what the UN are going to do if the promise isnt fulfilled?

We're in the realms of the hard stare here folks.

On the other hand Phil is right - if the word of your representative, your agent as it were, is not binding on you as a principal, then what the fuck is it worth? If he cant negotiate anything, best not send him at all.

E



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:41:43 PM)

The US will just lose credibility on the international stage, similar to Iceland with the IMF.

May seem small fry but when you are talking about renegotiating trading agreements and such like it can be a big deal.



popeye1250 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:43:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

The US will just lose credibility on the international stage, similar to Iceland with the IMF.



Awwww,.....Promise?



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:46:45 PM)

No man is an Island Popeye.[:D]

The US is the biggest exporter of food I heard today, so it has markets yet to lose.



luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:54:16 PM)

Lady E, but he is not our "agent as it were". He is the holder of a specific office with specific defined powers.

Making international deals is NOT one of his powers. He can negotiate, then the Senate ratifies. What is confusing about this?




popeye1250 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:55:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

No man is an Island Popeye.[:D]

The US is the biggest exporter of food I heard today, so it has markets yet to lose.

So where's all that "good will" for Obama that everyone was talking about?
You mean foreign countries *still* expect a *check* to "like" President Obama?
I'd love to lose the Somalian "market" for our chow!



LadyEllen -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:56:05 PM)

nothing confusing about it all - but he is certainly there as the agent of the US, regardless of his powers

perhaps the entire congress should attend next time?

E



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 5:57:50 PM)

Nothing is confusing about it, I just hope you don't mention it too loudly to all the other delegates or they might think there is no point talking to US delegates.



luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 6:00:19 PM)

sl4, I don't understand your Babbling. START was ratified. START II was not.

Treaties are Seldom (never, I can't think of one) negotiated on short notice durring a crisis. But a treaty has no meaning in the USA untill it is ratified by the Senate. Thats how it works in our Republic. There are nations where the "president" rules by decree. The USA isn't one of them.




luckydawg -> RE: UN to the US: Ignorance, hubris, or attempted blackmail? (1/21/2010 6:01:33 PM)

Or perhaps they should understand how our government works, and negotiate a deal that the Seante will ratify.



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