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ORIGINAL: Loki45

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I wasn't suggesting that he just sit there and take it. But I see no honour in fighting violence with violence. He would have had more impact if he would have been the bigger man and said "Lady, you are out of line" and reported her to the club owners.

I'm also not saying that the outcome is fair. I was simply stating that they both acted out of line.

Self defense is never "out of line."

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I was in a club once (not bdsm but night club). A man came up to me and said "my cousin and I are having a bet to find out if your breasts are real" and as I leaned in to listen to him, he copped a feel. I could have slapped him and would have been justified. But rather, I went to see the really hot bouncer and asked him to take care of this little pest for me.

This 'example' is apples and oranges with the original scenario. A 'copped feel' is nothing like a stranger walking up and slapping you across the face.

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ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Personally I think she should of been kicked out on her ear.

What do you think?

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ORIGINAL: hardbodysub
I believe the relevant concept here is appropriate force. If someone slaps you on the butt, you don't have the right to pull out a .45 Magnum and plug them through the head. A huge, strong person does not have the right to repeatedly pound a small, slight person into an inch of their life because of a little slap.

In the case in question, there is a bit of a gray area. The man was entitled to respond. Did he respond appropriately, or with unnecessary force, and was it more or less automatic, or premeditated and well beyond the realm of reasonableness? Those are the questions. I admit that I didn't read every single post here, but I recall reading that her slap was strong enough to knock him down. Sounds like a punch back might be within the realm of reasonableness, although a court might rule otherwise.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I disagree. I think there is a way to deal with situations. In the case of this scenario, I wouldn't call what the man did as self-defense, I would call it lashing back. Self-defense is when your life is in danger, not when someone insulted you with a slap. Unless she was a giantess and he was a wimp, I believe his well being was never in danger. His ego however was definitely hurt. He slapped her back out of insult, not self-defense.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Your mileage may vary. That's really all I have to say. In both cases, myself and the submissive man in the OP story were assaulted. How we chose to deal with being assaulted was our choice.

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ORIGINAL: notinferior
The woman is an idiot.  The man, though, had no class at all.  He hits a woman?  Under any circumstances?  He should have walked away.  His best reaction might have been to verbally dress her down, not to hit her.  He lost my sympathy.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit
After watching men handle a woman and not defend themselves because it was a woman hitting them and getting beat to hell... I taught and stand by... a woman hits you, you can hit her back. I got tired of my boys, being taught it was wrong to hit, being beat by girls and taught them... she hits you... you have every right to hit her back.

A man hits me, he is going to jail and I would expect to go to jail if I hit a man unless we had an agreement that that is what we wanted in our relationship.

Yes... it is wonderful when a man can be hit and not hit back and handle it in another way. That is always my first choice... but when you have said no... please don't... and they hit again... they deserve whatever they get. (hell... she might think again the next time she thinks just becasue she is some special dominant at some special place and wants to hit someone) I don't give multiple warnings. Someone crosses a line, I tell them... warn them. They continue... they get all red head with nothing held back.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit
After watching men handle a woman and not defend themselves because it was a woman hitting them and getting beat to hell... I taught and stand by... a woman hits you, you can hit her back. I got tired of my boys, being taught it was wrong to hit, being beat by girls and taught them... she hits you... you have every right to hit her back.

A man hits me, he is going to jail and I would expect to go to jail if I hit a man unless we had an agreement that that is what we wanted in our relationship.

Yes... it is wonderful when a man can be hit and not hit back and handle it in another way. That is always my first choice... but when you have said no... please don't... and they hit again... they deserve whatever they get. (hell... she might think again the next time she thinks just becasue she is some special dominant at some special place and wants to hit someone) I don't give multiple warnings. Someone crosses a line, I tell them... warn them. They continue... they get all red head with nothing held back.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I don't know what the laws are like in the US, but here in Canada, the severity of an open handed slap isn't the same as a closed fist punch. I unfortunately know this as I was a witness to an assault in my early 20s which went to court...

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ORIGINAL: Loki45

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I disagree. I think there is a way to deal with situations. In the case of this scenario, I wouldn't call what the man did as self-defense, I would call it lashing back. Self-defense is when your life is in danger, not when someone insulted you with a slap. Unless she was a giantess and he was a wimp, I believe his well being was never in danger. His ego however was definitely hurt. He slapped her back out of insult, not self-defense.

You can disagree all you like. The laws for self-defense are extensive and not limited to deadly force. If someone punches you, you can indeed hit them back. You can't kill them.....but a fight is a fight. He asked her not to do that and she did it anyway. That's worthy of him defending himself.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Your mileage may vary. That's really all I have to say. In both cases, myself and the submissive man in the OP story were assaulted. How we chose to deal with being assaulted was our choice.

The difference (that I already pointed out) is that you got 'felt up.' That's not even close to someone walking up and punching you. It's a world of difference. The only way that would even remotely be similar is if the used your tits for a punching bag or kicked you in the crotch. I've had girls grab my chest, ass, etc. before. I never felt 'assaulted.' However, if one hit me in the face, chick or not, it's on.

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ORIGINAL: Loki45

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I don't know what the laws are like in the US, but here in Canada, the severity of an open handed slap isn't the same as a closed fist punch. I unfortunately know this as I was a witness to an assault in my early 20s which went to court...

And I can name at least three martial arts where the strike of choice is open-handed. An open palm strike to the nose, for example, can kill a person if done right (or wrong, depending on your point of view).

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And here we have a clear case of the sexism tending toward favoring the woman no matter what. Doesn't matter if she's a woman or not. She HIT him. I know women who are in martial arts classes and can fuck someone up if they wanted to. The fact that they have a twat doesn't exempt them from getting punched back. It's about time that lesson was learned.

Y'all wanted equality. Here you go. Act like a lady and get treated like one. Act like a man and don't cry when you get knocked on your ass.

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But it was not self-defense.

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And I can name at least three martial arts where the strike of choice is open-handed. An open palm strike to the nose, for example, can kill a person if done right (or wrong, depending on your point of view).

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ORIGINAL: Loki45

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ORIGINAL: Lockit
After watching men handle a woman and not defend themselves because it was a woman hitting them and getting beat to hell... I taught and stand by... a woman hits you, you can hit her back. I got tired of my boys, being taught it was wrong to hit, being beat by girls and taught them... she hits you... you have every right to hit her back.

A man hits me, he is going to jail and I would expect to go to jail if I hit a man unless we had an agreement that that is what we wanted in our relationship.

Yes... it is wonderful when a man can be hit and not hit back and handle it in another way. That is always my first choice... but when you have said no... please don't... and they hit again... they deserve whatever they get. (hell... she might think again the next time she thinks just becasue she is some special dominant at some special place and wants to hit someone) I don't give multiple warnings. Someone crosses a line, I tell them... warn them. They continue... they get all red head with nothing held back.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit
After watching men handle a woman and not defend themselves because it was a woman hitting them and getting beat to hell... I taught and stand by... a woman hits you, you can hit her back. I got tired of my boys, being taught it was wrong to hit, being beat by girls and taught them... she hits you... you have every right to hit her back.

A man hits me, he is going to jail and I would expect to go to jail if I hit a man unless we had an agreement that that is what we wanted in our relationship.

Yes... it is wonderful when a man can be hit and not hit back and handle it in another way. That is always my first choice... but when you have said no... please don't... and they hit again... they deserve whatever they get. (hell... she might think again the next time she thinks just becasue she is some special dominant at some special place and wants to hit someone) I don't give multiple warnings. Someone crosses a line, I tell them... warn them. They continue... they get all red head with nothing held back.

Well said.

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ORIGINAL: notinferior
The way I read the original post, a middle aged man walks into a sex club dressed up like a schoolboy and one of the dominas jumps to the assumption that he wants to play.  Sure, its a breach of etiquette and a colossally stupid thing for her to slap him and start "playing" without setting some ground rules.  However, he had a number of options available to him that did not necessitate punching her in the face.  I, for example, would have laughed at her and told her that she should take a few lessons from a real woman before she tries to pretend to be a domme.  The effect would have been to make her look like the idiot she was.  He, on the other hand, decides to punch her.  Yeah, okay, perhaps the idea of a man not hitting a woman may seem misogynistic to some, but that isn't the way I was raised nor the world I want to live in.  Were I there, the man would have been hit so hard he'd never hit another woman again as long as he lived.  I don't give a damn what she did.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I obviously meant a slap.