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Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 6:33:12 AM   
HisSweetElysium


Posts: 600
Joined: 11/12/2009
Status: offline 		I'm curious if slaves and subs have ever found themselves in this position.  Our dynamic is such I am expected to ask for anything I want or need, and He decides whether or not I can have it.  I am lucky to be with a generous and loving Master, who indulges my wishes 90% of the time, usually if the answer is no there is a reason for it I haven't thought of. 

Just as any couple, we had a disagreement which led to bad feelings.  We resolved it, as we always do with a little time and cooling of heads (mostly mine) and we apologized to each other.  However I still felt badly for the way I acted, and, with some difficulty asked Him if He would be willing to punish me. He praised me for asking, saying He knew something was needed to help me put it behind me, and move forward.  I was really on the fence with asking, not sure if it was my place, but opted for honesty, which He always demands and expects, and it works for us.

anyone else ever find themselves in this position?  I had a hard time even forming the words....


_____________________________

“This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet.” Rumi
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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 7:56:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		HisSweetElysium,

we have the sort of dynamic where this slave is required to ask for just about everything besides breathing in and out. asking for punishment, for this slave, would feel very strange...as it is never this slave's desired outcome for any situation. we most certainly don't agree on everything, however, this slave hasn't found herself in the position of having bad feelings towards Him after a disagreement.

we are most definitely a couple, but we don't have an egalitarian relationship, it wasn't built on a conventional foundation with D/s or M/s added on afterwards. He has never been required, by this slave, to disclose or discuss any of His particular thoughts, feelings, experiences or motivations, however, this slave IS required to be a completely open book, all day every day.

"punishment", around here, is the considered result/decision made by Him that there has been a failure on both of our parts, somehow. it has been extremely rare in this relationship...this slave can only remember being punished twice, early in our relationship, when she was learning His rules.

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 10:05:45 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I have been asked to ask for punishment which was just surreal to me.

I have been talking about this sort of subject on a different site recently, I don't see why it would matter if you asked for punishment, however someone else said that it is placing a higher premium on the s-types opinion of the situation than the dominants if they were being punished when the dominant did not feel it was deserved which could lead to a shallower form of submission and I kinda understand the point there

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 10:26:20 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I was told once that I would receive a punishment (my first) and I begged for it to happen quickly.  My Master said that no one had ever done that before, but I wanted to get it over with, be forgiven, and move on.  For him the slate is wiped clean once the punishment has been given and I wanted to feel his full forgiveness.  It isn't exactly the same as asking for a punishment to begin with, but I can certainly understand the craving to be forgiven - even though I have found that for many subs it is harder for them to forgive themselves than to receive forgiveness from their partner.

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 10:49:23 AM   
HisSweetElysium


Posts: 600
Joined: 11/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen
I have found that for many subs it is harder for them to forgive themselves than to receive forgiveness from their partner.


This was part of my rationale, Master is never as hard on me as I am upon myself. I tend to have fixated negative thought processes, and will "beat myself up" over things I regret.  my Master has made me aware repeatedly that it's no longer my job to beat me, LOL, and intellectually I know that, but emotionally it's harder. 

I submit to my Master physically without any question.  Psychologically, most of the time.  Emotionally submission has been very difficult for me though. It takes a long long time for me to trust people on that level, and never in my life have I had someone who could look at me and say "I say you shouldn't feel bad so stop it" and had me accept it.  I'm starting to, with Him, but it can't be forced even by me, no matter how much I want it.   I would not say I know better than Him, but the logic behind the request (which I said to Him) was that I was having a hard time letting go, and I felt bad about what happened, and that punishment was my suggestion to help me get past it.

When I received the above mentioned punishment, I was crying before He even touched me.  It was more about the ritual of absolution and letting go; He was not angry with me, I was angry with me.  I can be very stubborn, and I needed to KNOW it happened, there was apology, I showed my contrition, and now it's over and I can go back to being my happy self. 

I do appreciate others viewpoints, it was a strange place to find myself in, but it had good results. 


_____________________________

“This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet.” Rumi

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 1:20:14 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I completely understand. I did something incredibly stupid not too long ago and although the relationship survived I'm having trouble accepting the fact that I basically brought it on. I beat myself up for the fact that it happened quite a bit and I find myself unable to move on in some ways. I think I'll follow your lead and ask to be punished and maybe I can move on if in fact he decides to grant my request.  As it is he refuses to let me take all the blame and has told me I cannot apologize which just kills me about more than anything else. To be honest though for me to apologize probably wouldn't alleviate the shame I feel at letting him down in such a big way. Thanks for bringing up this thread. I'll show it to him and see what he decides...

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 2:19:53 PM   
HisEvelyn


Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline 		I very much understand where you are coming from, Elysium, as I also have a tendency to beat myself up a lot when I make mistakes.  I am much harder on myself than my Master ever is, to the point where he often forbids me to apologize.  It's still difficult to obey that too, and I am quite sure I will be punished at some point for being too apologetic! :)

I think if I ever made a very bad mistake?  I would definitely want to be punished for it, because I know once punishment is given, that the act is forgiven and he moves past it.  I don't think I would ever specifically ask for it, though, because as others have said, that is HIS Choice to make, not mine.

What I have done however, is the occasional time I have been mildly reprimanded for mistakes thus far?  I throw myself wholeheartedly into the punishment, so that he can truly see I mean it, that I truly seek forgiveness.  Whatever he deems appropriate for my mistake I will perform with extra gusto, to show my sincerity.

As a fairly new submissive, I'm not sure how much this counts as advice :)  But it's what I have done so far.

(in reply to HisSweetElysium)
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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 4:44:33 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		     Asking for what amounts for help is never wrong when emotions are envolved. Not for a sub or even their Master,in fact, should be slow about it...it helps clear the air so to speak, and allows all partys to move along in life..Huntertn

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 6:48:01 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline 		It seems a little unfair to me to ask E to give me a punishment to make me feel better, because punishment is added stress on him. It's not what he wants to do or where he wants to go. It's like my bad behavior caused the situation and then I want him to fix it in the way that I want also - that feels a bit like manipulation. If you do "x" I'll feel better and then all will be well and I'll feel all better, but possibly he'll feel worse because I'd asked him to get into the mental mindset of punishment when he'd actually wanted to and told me to, move past the issue. I suppose there's nothing drastically wrong with it, but I don't think I'd do it myself.

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** Owned by E **

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/22/2010 9:15:51 PM   
ForeverOwned


Posts: 269
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, a few times when we first began. i was very young and inexperinced in everything and although he was a little bit younger than me, he had done and seen more things and was already with a Mentor when i met him. He was also more mature for his age than i was and i was use to being spoiled somewhat by my parents. i wasn't a breat, i just was use to only one way of life.

So, when i would do something childish. i was treated like a child and i would have to ask to be punished for what i had done and go through this whole humiliating process. i thought i was going to die of embarrassment. Luckily though i finally started to mature  a little bit and never had to go through that again.

(in reply to mc1234)
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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/23/2010 12:21:13 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		I royally fucked up two days ago and was punished severely, I noticed to me that he didn't even seem to feel remorse after, which he usually does. His punishments aren't usually quite so corporal so no, I will never ask Him for punishment. I was once again late in meeting him, and I had it coming, but the severity of it startled me. 

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/24/2010 5:18:37 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I've never asked for punishment. If I've done something wrong I can pretty set my clock by knowing he'll punish me. No need to ask. Sometimes my punishment is knowing I feel bad for what I've done.

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/25/2010 12:04:41 AM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		Opinion only:

If the offense is punishable in His eyes, He will punish.  If it's not, then He won't.  For this one to ask for punishment anyway is assuming that He doesn't know His own mind.  It would be putting her wish for closure over His decision.   slave's wants over Master's wants is not a good thing.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

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RE: Asking for punishment - 1/25/2010 2:50:05 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSweetElysium

I'm curious if slaves and subs have ever found themselves in this position.  Our dynamic is such I am expected to ask for anything I want or need, and He decides whether or not I can have it.  I am lucky to be with a generous and loving Master, who indulges my wishes 90% of the time, usually if the answer is no there is a reason for it I haven't thought of. 

Just as any couple, we had a disagreement which led to bad feelings.  We resolved it, as we always do with a little time and cooling of heads (mostly mine) and we apologized to each other.  However I still felt badly for the way I acted, and, with some difficulty asked Him if He would be willing to punish me. He praised me for asking, saying He knew something was needed to help me put it behind me, and move forward.  I was really on the fence with asking, not sure if it was my place, but opted for honesty, which He always demands and expects, and it works for us.

anyone else ever find themselves in this position?  I had a hard time even forming the words....


Punishment is entirely my realm and it's NOT ok for her to ask. Doing something that actually makes me angry (not an easy feat to achieve) is the only thing I'd punish her for and the only punishment I use is to send her to the nearest corner to sit while I spend the time cooling down.

If she "asked" to be punished, she's telling me I don't know how to run our relationship; that she doesn't trust my judgement. So yeah, it's such a big deal to me that you *know* we sort through it at the beginning of the relationship.

Another way to look at it is that I punish via the denial of my attention by sending her from me (to the corner). For her to ask is to ask to leave me, which I could reasonably interpret that she wants to end the relationship.... lol Seriously, only I can know what makes me angry so I decide what's punishable and when I fetch her from the corner, it's DONE and *OVER*.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Asking for punishment - 2/5/2010 11:14:09 PM   
littlegirlangel


Posts: 31
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		In the past I have with my Ex, with Daddy I haven't had to. Though I have come up to him and asked for a specific type of play or a scene I wanted to work on that maybe the last time we did I thought I failed at. I would rather say, "Daddy I'm feeling like pushing the boundries and need someone to stop me, please help" than to fight myself without saying a word and end up making the whole matter ten times worse. At least if I ask then he's in control, he's not angry or hurt and I'm not angry or hurt. At that point it's just a release and can lead to some "special time" after.

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RE: Asking for punishment - 2/6/2010 3:10:24 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Dear Sweet Elysium,
For some people letting go means needing some sort of closure, a physical manifestation of what is going on, a redemption if you will. There is nothing wrong with that. Penance is a powerful tool for our psyche. You are in a position to know that you need to let go and that there is a way to make that happen. You asked for it. He chose to give it.

There are often times people of all stripes ask for the opportunity to do penance (that is how I see this). It puts a period at the end of the sentence. More people ought to open themselves to honest expressions of their personal self-disappointments. There'd be a whole lot less broken people in the world.

Yes, I've asked - not just in this context but after arguing with someone or making a mistake to a friend, "Is there anything I can do to fix this / make it up to you / make it better?" Same thing. And the best thing is when they say, "yes." There is something helpless, almost hopeless when you can't let go.

Good on you for seeing that there is a way to remedy that.

Best,
sunshine

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Asking for punishment - 2/6/2010 10:27:50 AM   
HisSweetElysium


Posts: 600
Joined: 11/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx
It would be putting her wish for closure over His decision.   slave's wants over Master's wants is not a good thing.


That was the inner argument I was having with myself. however as He has said directly, over and over, my expressing my needs and desires is his #1 demand from me. He will decide to indulge or not.  Therefore, me feeling as though it is not my "place" to ask for such a thing must be put aside in accordance with this "prime directive".  For me to take the easy way out, and keep my mouth shut, is to disobey. 


_____________________________

“This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet.” Rumi

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RE: Asking for punishment - 2/6/2010 10:32:16 AM   
HisSweetElysium


Posts: 600
Joined: 11/12/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks sunshine, it really did work out for the best. I know this might not be appropriate in everyone's dynamic, but it is what works for us.  I am not yet so under His control emotionally where He can just say "let it go" and I can do so in every case, particularly when it was something as egregious as what brought this about.  We have been together for 4 months, and I obey Him physically and interpersonally, but in my 33 years I have never had complete control over my own emotions, and I don't expect myself to be able to do that off the bat with someone else either.  

_____________________________

“This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet.” Rumi

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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