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roles - 1/22/2010 9:37:56 AM   
beauty57


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/18/2009
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I would appreciate your insight, please, re: such a confusing relationship that has literally ended a few days ago. Short story: I advertised for a relationship, with my position as sub. Found a guy who identified as a dom. Over the 6 years we were together, he flipped from dom to sub, saying in his previous relationships he was sub and bowed to a Mistress. I decided to try the Domme role, liked it and was told I wasn't 'doing it the right way, or the way he thought I should be doing it, or the way his previous Mistresses had dommed him! The relationship ended with him being taken away in cuffs on NYE, by the police. And he blames me for it all and will not acknowledge any responsibility of any kind.
What is this flip flopping deal? Have you ever heard of this? Thank you in advance.
beauty
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 10:01:35 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Hmm side stepping all the validation for your crap relationship stuff, as you well know there is not really a 'right' way to do it just different ways

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to beauty57)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 10:26:26 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
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Sounds like he was frustrated because he couldn't get a dom since he's such a "do me", selfish sub, so he turned dom just so he could get laid. He pulled a bait- and- switch on you. Unilaterally changing the negotiated dynamics of the relationship is just soooo not cool, and it nullifies any obligation you may have had, to him. You were a good sport to try domming him, and he was a violent, abusive asshole to you, for all your efforts.  

Good for you, for getting out. Enjoy being single! You won't have an asshole ruining your day anymore.

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(in reply to beauty57)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 11:35:03 AM   
lally2


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one of the big challenges ive come up against in Ds or Ms relationships is switching off that part of my brain that wants to question, modify, change, stop, ban (even ) an activity. not my call. wasnt youre man's call either - not saying he wasnt submissive, just saying he should have shut up and let you do what you wanted to do the way you wanted to do it, if he was genuinely submitting himself to youre will, clearly he wasnt.

and as a Dom he should have known that to to be true, from the other side of how things worked. .

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 6:25:52 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
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Most real Doms I know can't switch; their not wired for it.Nor would they want too.Not to say some can't. Just most of us can't. Huntertn

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 8:06:53 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beauty57

I would appreciate your insight, please, re: such a confusing relationship that has literally ended a few days ago. Short story: I advertised for a relationship, with my position as sub. Found a guy who identified as a dom. Over the 6 years we were together, he flipped from dom to sub, saying in his previous relationships he was sub and bowed to a Mistress. I decided to try the Domme role, liked it and was told I wasn't 'doing it the right way, or the way he thought I should be doing it, or the way his previous Mistresses had dommed him! The relationship ended with him being taken away in cuffs on NYE, by the police. And he blames me for it all and will not acknowledge any responsibility of any kind.
What is this flip flopping deal? Have you ever heard of this? Thank you in advance.
beauty

I stay out of the "Switch" Forum because life has taught me to suspect their motives. IE, given the opportunity, every switch I've known (and I stress *I've known*) would much prefer to submit. And when they can't find a Dom/me, they at least keep their hand in the lifestyle by putting themselves out there as a Dom/me (mostly Dom) to attract a sub.

And if that sub is inexperienced/naive enough, he'll soon be complimenting her about her prospective Domme qualities. The occasional need to discipline her child (for eg) is a great "in" to start screwing her mind around and eventually driving her confused self to these boards....

Totally agree with dreamerdreaming - an utterly selfish "do me" sub. But hey, someone got the cuffs on him, ay - and he's got the nerve to BLAME you for it??? lmao

Note for yourself: you were never gonna be able to "domme him" like the others because you're NOT a domme! And neither was he....

Focus.


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(in reply to beauty57)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 8:13:42 PM   
PrincessDonna


Posts: 189
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I dont believe there is such a beast as a switch either,I could never sub,I dont need the experience of submission to better Domme,and you put yourself out there as a sub you should never had to try to be in control,for that I am sorry that we have this riff-raff that dont know the first thing about healthy relationships,or thrie role in one.Move on and good luck.......

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 8:21:36 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

I dont need the experience of submission to better Domme

I'm have the suspicion that that's not why most people identify as switches.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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(in reply to PrincessDonna)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 8:50:39 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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Not everyone who says they are oriented to power exchange, really are.  Perhaps the question is not, "how could he flip flop like that"... perhaps the question is, "is he, and for that matter, am I, oriented to power exchange"?

For the most part, the people that I know that are oriented to power exchange don't put on roles like they put on a jacket.  They either are, or they are not.  If they are not, then identifying as a top or bottom (and therefore being honest with yourself) would go a long ways towards a more peaceful life.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to NihilusZero)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 9:55:53 PM   
PrimalConsonance


Posts: 463
Joined: 7/11/2009
From: Southern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

Sounds like he was frustrated because he couldn't get a dom since he's such a "do me", selfish sub, so he turned dom just so he could get laid. He pulled a bait- and- switch on you. Unilaterally changing the negotiated dynamics of the relationship is just soooo not cool, and it nullifies any obligation you may have had, to him. You were a good sport to try domming him, and he was a violent, abusive asshole to you, for all your efforts.  

Good for you, for getting out. Enjoy being single! You won't have an asshole ruining your day anymore.


First off:  Welcome to the boards OP!  Second:  I agree with you dreamerdreaming:  bait and switch...  He wanted you to top him in the manner in which he was accustomed to:  We ALL know what that means, and his frustration and abusiveness which resulted in his finally getting some bondage play via the police; is an example of HIS "not doing it right".  Sounds like this is a pathetic person that not only needs a lifestyle change, but some help on a few levels.  It also sounds like you got out of this fairly safe and luckily so. 

This sounds like a good learning experience none the less.  You'll find out what you like and feel comfortable with as you progress.  This "topping from the bottom" thing this person showed you (in excess) and his flip-flop nature wasn't so much a switch as an ulterior motive.  Switches can be a lot of fun if you're not completely sure which side of the coin you reside on.  Once you're sure, then you can proceed, experience and learn more.  I'm glad you're safe though and you probably learned more than you wanted to on NYE.  Good luck!


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(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
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RE: roles - 1/22/2010 11:13:22 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

I dont need the experience of submission to better Domme

I'm have the suspicion that that's not why most people identify as switches.



Correct. I have that on my profile for one reason. I am totally submissive to my Love, but can and will "top" women on occasion not as a Domme however, and never men, it isn't my thing. It does however limit the tons of mail I formerly got from Doms when I identified as sub/slave, even though clearly taken.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to NihilusZero)
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RE: roles - 1/23/2010 6:17:41 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
It could be he wasn't submissive at all, BUT he could have been a bottom. People do tend to get the two terms mixed up at times. I know several D types that do bottom simply because they enjoy the sensation, but usually they are leading the scene at the same time. I don't know if this is what this guy was doing but, it was just a thought.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to beauty57)
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RE: roles - 1/23/2010 12:21:15 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
He wanted someone who would top him in the way he likes to be topped. Nothing wrong with that.

Everything wrong in not telling you in the beginning you would be required to top him. And even more wrong  when the dynamic between you changed, he didn't sit down and talk to you like an adult but chose to manipulate you.

He doesn't need to accept responsibility. You don't need him to.
You need to accept your responsibility for not insisting on sitting down like adults and talking about your very different needs. And for not walking when it was obvious your needs would not be met.

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RE: roles - 4/27/2010 4:19:20 PM   
dragon200070


Posts: 93
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline
Wow. Well there are vastly more male subs than any other catagory. Perhaps he was really a Dom then realized that he preferred subbing.

Sounds like a case of a man who did not understand himself. You neglected to give us much detail like why was he cuffed, so I can't venture much advice.

Jeff

(in reply to beauty57)
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RE: roles - 4/27/2010 4:23:01 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
FR..........
Do me bottoms are more common than blades of grass on the prairie. But there is a little secret here. Insist on getting what you want-they soon leave if you don't let them have thier way in all things.

Why did you let him get away with this shit to begin with?

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I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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RE: roles - 4/27/2010 10:14:47 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Huntertn
Most real Doms I know can't switch; their not wired for it.Nor would they want too.Not to say some can't. Just most of us can't. Huntertn
*shrugs* I'm perfectly happy to be the follower when someone else is leading well. I suspect strongly that if Carol was someone else and got gratification being a Domme, I could sub quite nicely. I'd never in a million years be able to think the way she does, but I could sit in the role quite nicely so long as the leader is leading well.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Huntertn)
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RE: roles - 4/27/2010 10:26:34 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline
I'm kind of with Aynne on the switchiness; topping women feeds my bi side, I simply can not imagine ever subbing to one; while conversly I can't imagine ever topping a man, not my thing at all. If I had to pick only one role, it would be straight submissive, which I originally listed myself as, although every now and then the bi switchy likes to pop out. It has nothing to do with bait and switch, I would never ever dream of asking kinky man to be my sub, nor would I expect, ask, or even want a female partner to top me.

I am what I am.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: roles - 4/28/2010 2:08:03 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

I dont believe there is such a beast as a switch either,I could never sub,I dont need the experience of submission to better Domme,and you put yourself out there as a sub you should never had to try to be in control,for that I am sorry that we have this riff-raff that dont know the first thing about healthy relationships,or thrie role in one.Move on and good luck.......


Actually this is fucking hysterical.
Thats like me saying 'I don't believe there is such a thing as a dominant'!!

Im not a bad looking woman. I have a good body, a reasonable face, a together personality, so why the hell would I put myself out as having a Domme side if I didn't? If I wanted to be a submissive and just a submissive it would be easy. Why make life complicated for myself by being a switch? Why only have a bit of it when I can have it all? Who the hell are you to declare theres no such beast as a switch and imply that people like me are just sheep in wolfs clothing!!

Goes off to change from her vamp outfit into a little white dress and apologizes to all for leading them up the garden path



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(in reply to PrincessDonna)
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RE: roles - 4/28/2010 9:22:36 PM   
kinkyfetishlife


Posts: 16
Joined: 3/23/2010
Status: offline
I totally agree with allthatjaz. No switches is silly. People are complicated, they have many personalities rolled up in their personalities. I'm not always happy, I'm not always sad, I'm not always nice and I'm not always a prick. I'm a whole bunch of fucked up, thanks Mom and Dad, with a whole bunch of desires, joys and pleasures.

I could bottom without a problem, as someone said above, there are sexual activities that I enjoy, which would be considered submissive and with the right woman, I could probably be submissive, but not 24/7, just on Tuesdays, Thursdays and every other Saturday.

In a 24/7 relationship, I am Dominant, I know that from life experience, I really didn't make that decision one day, I decided that I wanted more of it. Even before I knew what "it" was. It is just how it is and always has been, there was never a reason to say, I'm your Dom, you are my sub, I rule, you obey. Now I need the full obvious dynamic. That's another issue, people change, they grow, they learn, they become more self aware.

I think the sexual stuff is really irrelevant as far as who is Dom and who is sub. It's just sex, feels good, we all love it.

The dynamic of the relationship is what I feel makes one person Dom and the other sub, not the sex, which is why I just love the top/bottom terms, they do fit in nicely to help with the confusion.

I wouldn't switch with someone I was in a relationship with, ok, now this week, you be in charge, that doesn't work in my mind, but for an hour in the bedroom, you be in charge, I don't consider that switching actually, but those that are just really set in the roles may. Like all of a sudden, you aren't her Dom anymore because last night, she saw what you did with that butt plug. HA! You're srewed now.

I do believe that switch is a real mindset because I could understand someone being Dom to one person and being sub to someone else, depending on the people involved, people feel differently towards different people and I think it makes even more sense for women. Obviously, not everyone, most may be Dom or sub and that's that, but it's not so hard to fathom that switches are real people and not a bunch of sex crazed players.

I think one of the main problems is that we try to put people in these roles and think that should be the end of it. Since when is that a rule of people in general, they are a flaky bunch, never know what they may or may not do at any given moment, they really don't fit well in boxes and especially when you are talking about people that are in this type of lifestyle, right there, that tells you that they are not the norm and don't care to be, but then we want them to be what we feel is the norm, you are this and you are that, we have two options, pick one, don't fuck with the labels or we will banish you to switch hell and say you are just here to get laid.

As for the Original post, he may have thought he could be Dom, 24/7 but it just didn't work for him so he tried to flip it. I would say you got played from the start but 6 years seems like a long time to keep up an act. Like someone else said, the real problem is that no one sat down and said what they really needed from the relationship to begin with. If you are Dom/sub/switch, whatever, being honest about it should avoid most of these types of issues.

Honesty is another issue, we all see that's it's an issue and because we are so aware of the fakes and liars, always on guard, we are quick to judge someone's motives.

Last thing, totally off topic. I find this capitalization issue annoying. Having to capitalize Dom, not capitalize sub, Master, slave, Me, you, Him, her, it's fucking tiresome.

Ok, I really went around the world there, no need to point that out, but Roles is a hot topic for me and I get into discussing it.

(in reply to beauty57)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: roles - 4/28/2010 11:46:48 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
For the most part, the people that I know that are oriented to power exchange don't put on roles like they put on a jacket.  They either are, or they are not.  If they are not, then identifying as a top or bottom (and therefore being honest with yourself) would go a long ways towards a more peaceful life.
Wow, what a fascinating statement. That may explain a lot about Carol and I. Neither of us, I think, is particularly oriented towards "power exchange". Carol's entire worldview is fundamentally submissive. Mine is dominant. Neither of us associates any particular "feeling" with those roles, it is just how we are. Predictably, when we came across this idea of M/s, we gravitated to it as a natural fit. But we are not oriented to "power exchange".

That may explain why I so readily say, "I could happily submit in a different relationship if I loved a woman with different needs". I'm not particularly oriented to "power exchange" and submitting would not in any way change how I viewed the world. I had thought in the past about being oriented as a dominant personality or a submissive one, but I hadn't thought about being oriented to power exchange itself.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 20
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