RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the expected ramifications

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RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/24/2010 9:52:36 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

This ruling upends the rules for for-profit corporations only.

Which speaks to the heart of the real issue--moveon.org is a non-profit corporation, for example.

If anyone wants to convince me this isn't a political ruling, they've got their work cut out for them.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 41

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/24/2010 11:19:51 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

unions form a "body politic" artificial entity in law just like a corporation does.

Any unity bodies should be banned by any name.

Only a single living or as I use in my briefs;

“Exsisto:Homo-hominis-animus-vivo-vixi-victum“, be “Flesh-blood-living-man-consciousness”

stated as a compound fact to be perfectly clear to those word mincing bastards.

What you're seeking to do is rewrite the Constitution and eliminate the freedom of assembly. Do you think that only means the right to meet? It also means the right to work together towards common goals without undue interference.

In this day when the president and others can commandeer all the broadcast networks and push an agenda that may include the destruction of certain businesses, then those businesses should have a right to rebut that attack. Or do you prefer living in a dictatorship?

Its a problem of making sometimes small distinctions. For instance note what you just said in red.....

The president does not have the "constitutional" authority to do any such thing!

Its amazing sometimes what people say as a result of being conditioned to atrocities and commandeering the press is an atrocity in direct violation of freedom of the press!

Of course the press cant be free unless we can sue the shit out of them. Why because that is the way it works in government and business.

Its what ever road is cheapest.

If its cheaper to have freedom and no suits from people or pressure from government they will choose no suits.

Its pretty clear what people need to do to retain their liberty if we want to call it that.

ok so the next issue;

again distinctions need to be made based on the present condition of the country due to the sleepers.

Right of Assembly and speech is imperative and I will never go against that even regarding bodies political.

I am not attacking the right to form those bodies either.

I am attacking the unfair advantage the SC gave them. (not that they did not have it before)

When you get huge corporations with ungawdly money they can choose the canditates that the people get to vote on.

As an example just for shits...corp A wants higher prices on milk and corp B wants higher prices on gas..... (regarlesss of what their champaign lies tell you they want.

So corp A and Corp B are solvent up to 10 trillion each. So they each get behind their cnadidate with 10 tril.

Finally you have the individual people who get behind their candidate with a pitance of 1 billion.

The parties (Corps) just bought the 2 candidates who will end up running as they squirm to position themselves to the most acceptable lies of their target audience.

Now only 2 corps did that or can do that.

Where does that leave the voice of the individual people?

The system was made so that people can assemble, determine that goal and on an individual basis voice that goal at the ballot box.

When you have corporations with deep pockets your choices are limited before you ever get to that ballot box.

Keep in mind that the money from the corp does not represent the vote of the members but ONLY the vote of the CEO or BOARD od directors

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/24/2010 11:23:36 AM >

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 42

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 2:26:41 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Cant wait till your CEO gives money to some asshole you despise and overules your vote with his dollas!

Watch the leftee-rightee tears roll in thread after thread of the same ignorant rants that do nothing what so ever to change anything.

ROFL. I AM the CEO of my company.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 43

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 2:56:26 AM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

People do not have limited liability so that must be taken away pronto so corporations have unlimited liability like people.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 44

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 3:12:55 AM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
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This means no more limited liability for corporations since they are people. Congress must legislate to remove limited liability for corporations immediately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx81TeELcik&feature=player_embedded#

Why would SCOTUS reverse nearly 200 years of precedence?

How will that effect the average jo citizen voter?

Taxpayers?

Anyone motivated to activism or who cares?

Thoughts?

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 45

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 5:30:29 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

The entire reason for incorporating is to limit personal liability.

The nonsense is to then count them as Persons.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 46

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 5:42:49 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That isn't going to change. Corporations are not going to risk alienating customers directly.

Oh but they do. There are any number of corporations I try to avoid because of their contributions to various leftwing causes. Ben and Jerrys, e.g.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 47

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 5:53:09 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You're being ridiculous. They're not counted as persons, thats utter foolishness. The census doesn't count them and they can't vote. They're groups of people, which should have always had freedom of assembly and redress of grievances and therefore every right to speak out as a group.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The entire reason for incorporating is to limit personal liability.

The nonsense is to then count them as Persons.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 48

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 6:30:16 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You're being ridiculous. They're not counted as persons, thats utter foolishness. The census doesn't count them and they can't vote. They're groups of people, which should have always had freedom of assembly and redress of grievances and therefore every right to speak out as a group.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The entire reason for incorporating is to limit personal liability.

The nonsense is to then count them as Persons.

cor·po·ra·tion

A body that is granted a charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights, privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
dictionary.com

They have every right to speak out as individuals, but they are not a group.

Legally the corporation is treated as a person, it can sue or be sued, it can be fined or held accountable by other legal means.

As was said, it's purpose is to limit liability to the officers and shareholders of the corporation.

This ruling extends way beyond that into granting free speech rights to what is in effect a legal fiction.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/26/2010 6:33:59 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 49

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 6:34:47 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Everybody should check out this movie if they haven't already: The Corporation. It explains the historical origins of the corporation as a single entity and the ramifications in today's world - the parties involved in the film make it high-quality viewing.

_____________________________

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 50

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 6:45:49 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

A legal entity is not a person. Groups have rights as groups (as they should) but this talk that they are counted as persons is insane.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

cor·po·ra·tion

A body that is granted a charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights, privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
dictionary.com

They have every right to speak out as individuals, but they are not a group.

Legally the corporation is treated as a person, it can sue or be sued, it can be fined or held accountable by other legal means.

As was said, it's purpose is to limit liability to the officers and shareholders of the corporation.

This ruling extends way beyond that into granting free speech rights to what is in effect a legal fiction.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 51

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 6:51:49 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

It sounds insane because it is insane: the whole idea behind corporations is frikkin crazy. What's surprising is that you're only just noticing now: you're normally so 'au fait'.

_____________________________

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 52

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 6:57:30 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It sounds insane because it is insane: the whole idea behind corporations is frikkin crazy. What's surprising is that you're only just noticing now: you're normally so 'au fait'.

Not at all.

Everyone here is discussing the legal implications of a corporation. But the financial ones are important as well.

If I can incorporate as a public company, that gives me access to capital by selling stock. It also forces me to be responsive to the marketplace.

There is no other structure that permits public ownership of private resources. Think for a minute how powerful that is... in the socialist countries, the government owns the means of production. In America, the common man can own a chunk of them.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 53

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:04:02 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Everybody should check out this movie if they haven't already: The Corporation. It explains the historical origins of the corporation as a single entity and the ramifications in today's world - the parties involved in the film make it high-quality viewing.

I clicked through the links and found the interview with her and Alan Greenspan.

She put him on the spot by asking whether he thought his policies contributed to the fact that CEO's made 40 times their workers average wage when he came in to power and now it is 400 times.

His answer was some ridiculous nonsense about how that can be blamed on the poor quality of American education.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 54

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:07:38 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Watch the whole film. It's an order

.

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(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 55

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:12:33 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

It strikes me as completely nonsensical that a corporation should have the legal rights of an individual, including free speech (seriously...), and little of the responsibilities, but that is why they were created in the first place: to limit liability. It's interesting that the United States are a federal corporation, isn't it?

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 56

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:14:12 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

You said you had me on ignore. Forgetful are you?

It enrages extremists like you that businesses have any protections at all, doesn't it. You won't be happy until you've driven all the jobs offshore will you. Until unemployment rates are at 70% and the majority of us are living in caves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It sounds insane because it is insane: the whole idea behind corporations is frikkin crazy. What's surprising is that you're only just noticing now: you're normally so 'au fait'.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/26/2010 7:16:31 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 57

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:17:41 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

A legal entity is not a person. Groups have rights as groups (as they should) but this talk that they are counted as persons is insane.

law legal definition of law. law synonyms by the Free Online Law ...

ARTIFICIAL PERSON. In a figurative sense, a body of men or company are sometimes called an artificial person, because the law associates them as one, and gives them various powers possessed by natural persons. Corporations are such artificial persons.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 58

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:32:43 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You won't be happy until you've driven all the jobs offshore will you. Until unemployment rates are at 70% and the majority of us are living in caves.

Well, I'm delirious with joy, as this has already happened - my nefarious plans have worked out well

.

_____________________________

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 59

RE: SCOTUS - Corporations are People! What are the exp... - 1/26/2010 7:36:30 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Like much of the legacy of George Bush- this ruling is a triumph of ideology over common sense.

Where on earth did the idea come from that corporations like free speech? They don't- it's abhorrent to them. All you have to do is look at the history of corporations pulling advertising from material deemed either offensive, risque, politically far from the center etc. Walmart- the country's largest retailer (which is a friggin' nightmare in itself!) is well known for only selling either bowdlerized versions of movies, songs, and books or not selling controversial material at all. How many times did a movie with a strong political message like A Clockwork Orange fail to be broadcast because no corporation would sponsor it?

Corporations CENSOR- it's what they do in their advertising and with their advertising budget. The name of the game is not only to get your message out there- but also to deny the other guy his chance as well. That's why corporations often take out advertising in all major newspapers, magazines, TV stations etc- it's a means of denying the other persons or corporations speech. There is nothing fair or balanced about an ad campaign- and that's the type of speech that corporations engage in. There's nothing FREE about it.

This country is struggling with the demise of the fourth estate. We've already seen what a disaster the agglomeration of broadcast media into the hands of a few corporations can do- look at Fox News - the oxymoron of the decade (Should be called Henhouse Propaganda). Repeal of the FCC's mandate to make certain that all licensed media outlets using the airwaves have to present more than one point of view during a political campaign has reduced political debate in this country to shrill name calling and schoolboy taunts.

The real disaster of this ruling is that by allowing corporations, with their vastly greater economic resources, unfettered access to the airwaves, the rest of our voices will be drowned out, effectively abrogating perhaps our most important constitutional right.

I think it's time for an amendment.

Sam

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 60

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