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RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:23:16 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		As a bottom, I make my top aware of my preferences.  I consider that part of good communication. But I understand he has the authority to disregard these preferences (as long as he respects my limits) and accept that.  

For me, during a scene is not an appropriate time to make suggestions or give feedback beyond natural moaning/sighing/hollering or designated control phrases.  But at the appropriate time, I give feedback.  It is not my job to determine how this feedback is used, or not used, in the future. 

Still, I would not continue to play if we both are not getting something out of the situation.  As others have said, the important thing is knowing how your partner defines this and where the comfort level is at for the two of you.


(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:25:37 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Sensualips.......Thank you!

<sticks tongue out at Owned>,,, LOL


< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/24/2006 9:26:08 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:27:32 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submotive

Greetings to all - this may have already been covered, not sure. Would like some opinions about what you consider topping from the bottom. Is giving your Master suggestions and opinions, asking for what you want considered topping from the bottom? Pretty new sub here with even newer Master, so all opinions are welcome. Thank you. 


I see topping from the bottom as any action taken by the submissive to try and control the actions or decisions of the dominant.  I don't see a submissive presenting a suggestion to the dominant as trying to control anything.  Sometimes there may be options I hadn't considered and I'll welcome the suggestion....

The topping from the bottom seems to come in when the dominant has heard the suggestion, but decides to take a course of action other than the one suggested by the submissive...and the submissive feels that the dominant obviously wasn't listening....because the dominant didn't choose her course of action.  So maybe the submissive suggests it again...but with a little more emphasis... this is no longer a suggestion, is it?  Sounds more like the beginnings of a tantrum.

Anyway...that's my take on it.
(If this doesn't make any sense...maybe I'll edit it after I've gotten some sleep...)

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:31:25 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

(If this doesn't make any sense...maybe I'll edit it after I've gotten some sleep...)


It makes perfect sense.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:31:34 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Okay....Since you asked....  :)

Yes, any good Dom/Master will be interested in what you like, what makes you feel good, what makes you tick, what presses your buttons.....etc.  You have your opportunities to tell him.  And then he takes that into account when having his wicked ways with you.  He may choose to incorporate what  you like, or he may not.  He may incorporate it sometimes rather than all the times.  After all, he would probably like you at your...um...hottest, shall we say?

But...this also means you may be expected to do some stuff you don't like.  Fair enough?

However...let's say...one particular night, you don't think you got enough of the good stuff, and had to do too much of the not so good stuff.  And you tell him.  Okay fine, that's fair.  But then you tell him again.  He says I hear ya, but tonight we're doing it this way.  He's the boss after all.  So then you get upset.  Or pout.  Or argue.  You don't see all the good stuff he typically gives you, or how your life is so much better for serving him, or how maybe last night you got all of the good stuff and none of the bad stuff.  You tell him how you are now so depressed you can't see how you can possibly fix him breakfast in the morning, because you get lethargic when you're depressed.  And he should give you what you want so he can have breakfast....

That's being manipulative.  And that's a kind of silly example, albeit an example, of an attempt to top from the bottom.


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:43:44 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Owned... lmao... you need more coffee than I do and need to lay off the sugar in those apples.

Actualy I see where you're going with that. Scenic route, but you still got there. MrThorn is tired but I like how he said it too.

Ok, I am understanding more now. So I figures I was right in my first post. All I forgot to add was timing. Gotcha... thanks all.


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 9:56:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		lol what can i say...it has been an extremely difficult day that has not yet ended.  The scenic drive did me good.  Hey i said it was silly...gotta laugh at myself, right?!

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 10:09:42 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP..gotta go with Sensualips on this one.Her definition is how I have interpreted topping from the bottom...be well..tempting

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 10:15:14 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Just saw her post (and trues tongue, ahem).  i agree with it completely.  i missed it when i was on my scenic drive...lol. 

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 11:03:55 PM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

ok maybe i just need more caffine in my system... but am I getting this right? To possibly sujest to a Dom or Master, or who ever.. a Top... on how something might feel better IF.. or can we possbily try this next time...is munipulative and trying to top from the bottom?
I don't get it. How are we both suppose to know what is good for both, if talking about it is trying to change who's in charge?
Be right back with more coffee... because I am actually confused now.


I'm not sure if that was being directed toward any post in particular, but reading my earlier post again -- however now with sleep-deprived eyes, lol -- I realize that I may not have been clear.

I think that discussion and communication, suggestions, etc., are NOT topping from the bottom.  They are just that -- communication and conversation.

I think it becomes topping from the bottom when there is manipulation involved, and I'm not sure if it's always conscious.  I think owned's example was actually a good one.  The submissive doing (_____whatever_____), trying to get the dominant to react in a certain way, which will get the submissive whatever it is that they wants, even if what they want is just the control.

And hopefully tomorrow I won't wake up and read this and realize I was too tired to be coherent, lol.



_____________________________

Harmony
Proud to be owned by Pyro

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 11:30:14 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Would like some opinions about what you consider topping from the bottom. Is giving your Master suggestions and opinions, asking for what you want considered topping from the bottom?


I don't believe that topping from the bottom is even possible. If you are doing something that your Master allows you to do, it's his choice to allow it. If he doesn't want you to do it, he'll put a stop to it quicker than you can say 'RED'.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 11:35:05 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: Bitatruble
If he doesn't want you to do it, he'll put a stop to it quicker than you can say 'RED'


You have a point there ...lol

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/24/2006 11:55:39 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali


quote:


Original Quote: Bitatruble
If he doesn't want you to do it, he'll put a stop to it quicker than you can say 'RED'


You have a point there ...lol


Yep, very good one too.


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/25/2006 2:53:10 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

lol what can i say...it has been an extremely difficult day that has not yet ended.  The scenic drive did me good.  Hey i said it was silly...gotta laugh at myself, right?!


I hope the day ended at least a little better for you, owned.
 
Level

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/25/2006 7:24:53 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline
[/quote]
I don't believe that topping from the bottom is even possible. If you are doing something that your Master allows you to do, it's his choice to allow it. If he doesn't want you to do it, he'll put a stop to it quicker than you can say 'RED'.

Celeste
[/quote]

The attempt is possible, what happens after the attempt reveals the true strength of the one in charge.  I've had it happen a couple of times and I yanked the chain hard and fast.  The results? once led to total and complete submission, the other she decided I was more than she bargained for.

I can tell you my little one engaged in something I wouldn't consider topping form the bottom but she would look for a crack or weakness.  Once she found it she would try and exploit it,. once she did the domly one was history.  It was her way of weeding out whether they were strong enough to handle her.  I never had to experience that with her as I jsut took her from the start. 

K

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/25/2006 9:41:13 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Level.  It did not, but this is not the place for that ;)

Celeste, i think you're onto something, but it is not possible with a Dominant/Master who knows himself and his sub/slave well.  Your comment assumes he is aware it is happening, and allows it (at least i think it does?).  There are times when even the strongest can get duped.  i am in a situation right now where i find myself struggling with things like, "how long do i hold out before groveling back" and in my head thoughts dance around, tempting me to play the manipulation game (which i always lose) of the hurt little girl who needs reeling back in.  So, is that topping from the bottom or is it really a hurt girl that needs some help from her Master?  And if he lends a helping hand, has he been duped, or is he really helping....and do we really know?  Will i cling to him even more for helping, or will i lose respect because he fell into my manipulations.....but are they really manipulations....lol and we spin back around in this circle....

(well i guess this was the place for it after all...)

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Topping from the bottom???? - 3/26/2006 9:44:17 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

ok maybe i just need more caffine in my system... but am I getting this right? To possibly sujest to a Dom or Master, or who ever.. a Top... on how something might feel better IF.. or can we possbily try this next time...is munipulative and trying to top from the bottom?
I don't get it. How are we both suppose to know what is good for both, if talking about it is trying to change who's in charge?
Be right back with more coffee... because I am actually confused now.


truesub, there is a difference between 'asking' and either manipulating or provoking to get the desired response. If provocation or manipulation are involved, it's topping from the bottom.

TexasMaam

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 37
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