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RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 1:35:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I already know not to listen to you or anyone else that claims the federal reserve does not understand their own system.

The posts some of you people make are nothing short of shocking to the uninformed side.


You need to learn the difference between claims people make and the claims you invent for them.

That you have to do that should tell you something.

And yup, I'll always insist on casual methodology, not wild surmise, so better plug your ears.


nice shot at impasse debate bullshit when a simple admission you had no clue what I was talking about would have sufficed.

Thanks, I will roll up my pant legs as well.



And again with the ad hominem. If you must push this---

It's your ability to comprehend, not the Fed's publication, that is in question.

As you are using the term money, you clearly don't understand what it means from an economic standpoint.

Any economics text will rectify the situation. Then you can come back, Fed in hand, and make sense.


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 1:39:04 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

Who makes the Nazis? Intellectual Halfwits!


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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 1:42:32 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

Who makes the Nazis? Intellectual Halfwits!


I'll be damned!!!! Thought it was Hasbro.

Ron

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 1:49:26 PM   
NorthernGent


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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 1:51:58 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

Who makes the Nazis? Intellectual Halfwits!


I'll be damned!!!! Thought it was Hasbro.

Ron

Not a Fall fan?
It'd have been Krupps back then, surely?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:17:05 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
The posts some of you people make are nothing short of shocking to the uninformed side.


Those of us on the informed side are a little shocked by your uninformed side's posts as well.

Ron


I cant speak for others but you are batting a grand zero against me so far, unless you believe smart remarks and quips count for facts.

If you want to jump on his bandwagon with a claim the federal reserve does not understand  money then its to your own demise.

That is what money mechanics is about.  LMFAO



I have never asserted that the federal reserve doesn't understand money.

I do however take exception to your caterwauling that the IOU financial instruments are unconstititional. Simply not the case. Article one section six.

Ron



how about a quote since the version on cornell law is about compensation and other rep shit and nothing to do with what you said, or just give me the correct art or how you come to that conclusion


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:21:26 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I already know not to listen to you or anyone else that claims the federal reserve does not understand their own system.

The posts some of you people make are nothing short of shocking to the uninformed side.


You need to learn the difference between claims people make and the claims you invent for them.

That you have to do that should tell you something.

And yup, I'll always insist on casual methodology, not wild surmise, so better plug your ears.


nice shot at impasse debate bullshit when a simple admission you had no clue what I was talking about would have sufficed.

Thanks, I will roll up my pant legs as well.



And again with the ad hominem. If you must push this---

It's your ability to comprehend, not the Fed's publication, that is in question.

As you are using the term money, you clearly don't understand what it means from an economic standpoint.

Any economics text will rectify the situation. Then you can come back, Fed in hand, and make sense.




Really now?

I cant wait to hear this!   Pant legs are rolled up.

Which money are we talking about and how do you feel economists have a better understanding about a promissory note than I do?

Oh wait are you saying that a dolla bill is not a Pnote?





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:23:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		How about you read the fuckin constitution article one, section six or you quote law that forbids it, throw away the magna carta, that is sssooooooooooooooo fucking yesterday.

But I am ok with cornell law site, show me where cornell claims they are unconstitutional.

I explained in great detail to you once about oxyacetelyne cutting and dross......you ignored pages and pages of information.

50 million frenchmen cannot be wrong, that is, I am saying along with uncountable millions of other people that there is no constitutional issue here. You are the only one saying it is unconstitutional, post the goddamn link that clearly states the caselaw and precedent, the onus of proof devolves to you.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:40:24 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

Who makes the Nazis? Intellectual Halfwits!



When a Man wears one of the nine rings forged by the dark lord for too long, it saps away his will and his soul until he succumbs - leaving him only a spectral shell of his former self - a ringwraith, a Nazgul...

Oh. Wait. You said Nazis. Nevermind.

Same difference. Nazighouls.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:50:08 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The crash that didnt happen, with the debris that didnt fall, clearly visible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8u-I0GWs4&feature=related


http://en.sevenload.com/videos/AikkuY6-Inner-City-Demolition

Dust clearly rising upwards after the collapse.


Yeh and no heat plume in the center!  LOL

The WTC are not the only towers that nasty osama took out!  He attacked china too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhgmRm3aiaY


Oh yeh and I like the way the building healed itself.   No fucking hole until after the side explodes and then the side explodes before the front where the alleged plane went in!  LMFAO

Do you believe the terminator movies too just because you saw them on tv?

From YOUR video:






Oh just to eliminate any confusion that screen shot is AFTER the alleged plane majically went through a steel wall with no immediately visible fire ball.

Enjoy.......



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/25/2010 2:54:19 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 2:50:26 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Which money are we talking about and how do you feel economists have a better understanding about a promissory note than I do?

Oh wait are you saying that a dolla bill is not a Pnote?


This is silly. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Federal government issuing paper money in Knox v. Lee in 1871, which was a result to the challenge of the constitutionality of the Legal Tender Act of 1862. This is regardless of the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve System and before there even was a Federal Reserve System the government issued paper money. You may not like it, but that's been the way the system has operated for over 150 years so by now it's a little late to be debating the legality of decisions made during the Civil War.

While I'm not an expert, I believe the issuance of paper currency is covered under the "borrow money on the credit of the United States" clause in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution - so yes, technically a dollar bill is a promissary note drawn on the Federal government, as opposed to the coinage issued by the U. S. Mint, which is under the aegis of the Department of the Treasury and as such is not an instrument of debt.

What I don't get is ... why is this a 'conspiracy'? It's not like a secret cabal of the powerful elite are doing something mysterious and cryptic - this was all done above board and up front.



_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:12:05 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

How about you read the fuckin constitution article one, section six or you quote law that forbids it, throw away the magna carta, that is sssooooooooooooooo fucking yesterday.

But I am ok with cornell law site, show me where cornell claims they are unconstitutional.

I explained in great detail to you once about oxyacetelyne cutting and dross......you ignored pages and pages of information.

Yeh and I conceded to a draw on that one and I also explained thermate for several pages so what?

50 million frenchmen cannot be wrong, that is, I am saying along with uncountable millions of other people that there is no constitutional issue here. You are the only one saying it is unconstitutional, post the goddamn link that clearly states the caselaw and precedent, the onus of proof devolves to you.

Ron




Article I
snip

Section 6. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.

Oh the credit river Common Law case?



Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

You talking about that one?
a1 s8?

unless you can find the 18th enumerated power of government by all means show me where they are authorized in the constitution to make anything but coin as money?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:27:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Which money are we talking about and how do you feel economists have a better understanding about a promissory note than I do?

Oh wait are you saying that a dolla bill is not a Pnote?


This is silly. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Federal government issuing paper money in Knox v. Lee in 1871, which was a result to the challenge of the constitutionality of the Legal Tender Act of 1862. This is regardless of the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve System and before there even was a Federal Reserve System the government issued paper money. You may not like it, but that's been the way the system has operated for over 150 years so by now it's a little late to be debating the legality of decisions made during the Civil War.

While I'm not an expert, I believe the issuance of paper currency is covered under the "borrow money on the credit of the United States" clause in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution - so yes, technically a dollar bill is a promissary note drawn on the Federal government, as opposed to the coinage issued by the U. S. Mint, which is under the aegis of the Department of the Treasury and as such is not an instrument of debt.

What I don't get is ... why is this a 'conspiracy'? It's not like a secret cabal of the powerful elite are doing something mysterious and cryptic - this was all done above board and up front.




ok but have you read the cases?

Without even looking at the cases I will wager that the only reason they got paper through as legal tender is because each dollar was redeemable for 1 dollar of gold/silver metal.

Remember the gold and silver certificates?

Sure why not easier to carry than a 100 pounds of gold since it was 100% par there would be no reason not to rule if you can trust the government and we all know we can trust the government to the end of the earth!

The way they get around it is by having someone else make the money who is not in the government!!!

Makes the people who use it the enemy of the state too by the way, treason.

You might want to look at the coinage act that would have been changed several times after that point.

read those cases and get back to me.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:31:40 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Dude,

You have an astounding capacity to complicate based on basic miscomprehensions.

Start by looking up the economic definition of money.

From there, the rest is, as IB accurately put it, silly.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:33:19 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I want to see the picture of the guy on the observation deck. The one with the jet behind him?


Rudy Giuliani

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:40:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Dude,

You have an astounding capacity to complicate based on basic miscomprehensions.

Start by looking up the economic definition of money.

From there, the rest is, as IB accurately put it, silly.


thats because you oversimply and choose poor sources for your information.

I would place my bet on the federal reserve explaining the doolar than an economist they dont know what the fuck they are doing.

They never mention its a debt that can never be paid back.  Do you understand how that even works?

They fail to mention it sucks the life blood out of the people and transfers it to the boys on top who are privy to information you are not.

So which one you want to talk about? M1? account? exchange? which. what?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:44:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I want to see the picture of the guy on the observation deck. The one with the jet behind him?


Rudy Giuliani





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:47:08 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

From YOUR video:






Oh just to eliminate any confusion that screen shot is AFTER the alleged plane majically went through a steel wall with no immediately visible fire ball.

Enjoy.......




Firstly, your so called shot isnt anywhere to be found on my video. Secondly, we only have your word that the scene is shot later. Anyone reading this can decide if you are telling the truth or making crap up.

As for the heat plume, I assume you mean the one on the twin towers photo you posted up. My feeling, and correct me if Im wrong, is all that aviation fuel, along with the building contents,  caught fire.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:47:32 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
ok but have you read the cases?

Without even looking at the cases I will wager that the only reason they got paper through as legal tender is because each dollar was redeemable for 1 dollar of gold/silver metal.

Remember the gold and silver certificates?

Sure why not easier to carry than a 100 pounds of gold since it was 100% par there would be no reason not to rule if you can trust the government and we all know we can trust the government to the end of the earth!

The way they get around it is by having someone else make the money who is not in the government!!!

Makes the people who use it the enemy of the state too by the way, treason.

You might want to look at the coinage act that would have been changed several times after that point.

read those cases and get back to me.



Dude, I'm not the one trying to claim that issuing paper money is an illegal and treasonous conspiracy. The onus of proof is on you.

I'm saying that your opinion flies in the face of 150 years of judicial rulings and Congressional law, including the Legal Tender Act of 1862 and the Coinage Act of 1965 which states:



"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues."


Again, you might not like it - but it's already been appealed through the judicial system and decided and has been in common practice for about 150 years. The "greenbacks" in question at the time (1862) were not backed by hard specie. That was the part of the issue. They were just paper backed by the full faith and credit of the government. People complained. The appeals went through the courts. The Supreme Court ruled. That ruling has been accepted since slightly after the Civil War.

Prior to the instiution of the Federal Reserve System, the Department of the Treasury issued its own paper money. They didn't need to "get around" anything. When Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, they vested the power to issue paper money in the Federal Reserve. Again, you might not like it, but it's done.

Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that the system is what it is. It can be wrong or inefficient or problematic without being illegal or treasonous.

[Edited:  I found the link on the Cornell Law site.]

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 1/25/2010 3:52:43 PM >

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Conspiracy theories ? - 1/25/2010 3:56:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I want 2 ponies!

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 120
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