RE: Conspiracy theories ?

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vincentML -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/25/2010 8:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Whatever comes to pass often has a trail of evidence and proof, there can be many proofs with the evidence to provide that proof, but what makes one proof more accepted than other proofs ? Often proof is an obstruction to survival. If there is a rustle in the grass we cannot wait for proof it is a tiger. Imagination, conspiracy, suspicion are all valuable genetic tools. Proof is often a luxury for philosopher, mathematians, and casual debators.

MzMia -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/25/2010 8:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Whatever comes to pass often has a trail of evidence and proof, there can be many proofs with the evidence to provide that proof, but what makes one proof more accepted than other proofs ? Often proof is an obstruction to survival. If there is a rustle in the grass we cannot wait for proof it is a tiger. Imagination, conspiracy, suspicion are all valuable genetic tools. Proof is often a luxury for philosopher, mathematians, and casual debators. vincent, what a wonderful post!! I don't believe in many "conspiracy theories" but I like to keep an "open mind" in life. What a wonderful way of explaining what does not always have an explanation. To always need proof, means to limit possibilities that are not always spelled out for you. I like to be able to think outside the box, and I don't need to only "believe" concepts that have been "proven" by "the experts". I would not want to view the world, or live my life so narrow-minded as to think, I always need "proof" to even consider other possibilities.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/25/2010 10:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne FYI----There isnt even one stitch of legal in the constitution! Legal is all that shit code the legislatures write. The constitution is Law and therefore lawful applies. Yep no shit man, welcome to the land of OZ! Legal land. So that article answered correctly but did not make it a point to to indicate there is a difference between legal, (color of law) and Law, (Law). Sometimes I can kind of get at what you're saying. Sometimes you make no sense at all. This is one of the latter times. I normally do not use wiki for anything but sometimes it does simplify matters a lot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_%28law%29 gun legislation for example is a good point in color of law. If you accept the legislation then it becomes a contract. If you strap on your weapon in accord with the constitution, and they fuck with you the only way you can get remedy is through the common law because all legislated law is contract law and color of law and what possible reason would they have to give you remedy. oops except that the constitution says you get it... Not sure if I said that precisely 500% correct but its damn close. LOL See we really got the asshole in government by the balls if we just wake up and start using our powers, but people are so hypnotized in the daily leftee rightee drama I dont see it happening any time soon. .

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/25/2010 10:24:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne FYI----There isnt even one stitch of legal in the constitution! Legal is all that shit code the legislatures write. The constitution is Law and therefore lawful applies. Yep no shit man, welcome to the land of OZ! Legal land. So that article answered correctly but did not make it a point to to indicate there is a difference between legal, (color of law) and Law, (Law). Sometimes I can kind of get at what you're saying. Sometimes you make no sense at all. This is one of the latter times. I normally do not use wiki for anything but sometimes it does simplify matters a lot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_%28law%29 You're making less sense as you go.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/25/2010 10:38:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Whatever comes to pass often has a trail of evidence and proof, there can be many proofs with the evidence to provide that proof, but what makes one proof more accepted than other proofs ? Often proof is an obstruction to survival. If there is a rustle in the grass we cannot wait for proof it is a tiger. Imagination, conspiracy, suspicion are all valuable genetic tools. Proof is often a luxury for philosopher, mathematians, and casual debators. vincent, what a wonderful post!! I don't believe in many "conspiracy theories" but I like to keep an "open mind" in life. What a wonderful way of explaining what does not always have an explanation. To always need proof, means to limit possibilities that are not always spelled out for you. I like to be able to think outside the box, and I don't need to only "believe" concepts that have been "proven" by "the experts". I would not want to view the world, or live my life so narrow-minded as to think, I always need "proof" to even consider other possibilities. Well the problem with the proofers is it becomes a nonsense position and that in my opinion is done on purpose to reduce others to succumb to the decisions of authority rather than using their own head. The last thing tyanny wants is a society capable of knowing the score. Another favorite is oh cram its razor. Another one that is abused under the pretense everything must fit in round peg square peg or it cant be possible. In either case one does not need a very hi iq to side step around hard line positions like that and pull whatever off. Now using those sorts of theories and positions when examining governments is completely worthless because when governments are naughty everything is buried in at a minimum duplicity and that can go several levels deep. When its all said and done only a very small handful of people often one or 2 need to be killed to protect the gang... lincoln, kennedy etc. as an example. Another method is compartmentalization. Precisely what dubya was looking for! sleeper cells LOL same dif. Anyway that is how its done and I frankly do not waste my time with proofers or cramits any more.

DomKen -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 12:45:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Another favorite is oh cram its razor. Another one that is abused under the pretense everything must fit in round peg square peg or it cant be possible. And here is an example of the mind set that takes conspiracy theory belief and makes the leap to internet kookdom. Occam's Razor is a simple but powerful tool for sifting competing explanations to a situation. It is often mischaracterized as the simplest answer is the right answer but that is at best a naive version. In reality the Razor simply says "do not multiply entities without cause." In practical terms it means that the simplest solution is as good as all the possible more complicated answers since all those additional complications do not amount to anything noticeable. For instance putting a pot of water on the stove to boil can be explained by the well known rules of chemistry and thermodynamics or you could posit invisible and undetectable water spirits and fire spirits dancing together however the dancing fairy theory explains nothing not explained by the more common explanation and therefore occam's razor says the answer with more entities, in this case literal but not always, is simply of no greater usefulness than the less complex answer. When a conspiracy theorist or internet kook writes or speaks negatively about Occam it is safe to surmise that he has no idea what he is actually talking about and that someone has previously used Occam to show that his grand beliefs are of no usefulness. It is then a safe bet that nothing useful will ever emanate from that source and based on based on how sadistic you feel you can goad the kook at your leisure.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 1:41:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Another favorite is oh cram its razor. Another one that is abused under the pretense everything must fit in round peg square peg or it cant be possible. And here is an example of the mind set that takes conspiracy theory belief and makes the leap to internet kookdom. More like it exposes the way tards use it. Occam's Razor is a simple but powerful tool for sifting competing explanations to a situation. It is often mischaracterized as the simplest answer is the right answer but that is at best a naive version. Yup thats how tards use it alright, especially when they get in a pinch on subjects like 911 and its the last port in the storm! LOLOLOL In reality the Razor simply says "do not multiply entities without cause."In practical terms it means that the simplest solution is as good as all the possible more complicated answers since all those additional complications do not amount to anything noticeable. Nothing like a little double talk eh? LOL Claim its mischaraterized then mizcharartrize it in the next parargraph!!! very good!!! Bravo!!! Thanks for making my point! Completely useless if you are doing linear regresion or anything that requires similar models. It supports concepts like I cant toch god therefore god is nonexistant because all else is to complicated... LOL Handy for discounting anything someone wants with a claim its accomplished by legitimate rule. LMFAO For instance putting a pot of water on the stove to boil can be explained by the well known rules of chemistry and thermodynamics or you could posit invisible and undetectable water spirits and fire spirits dancing together however the dancing fairy theory explains nothing not explained by the more common explanation and therefore occam's razor says the answer with more entities, in this case literal but not always, is simply of no greater usefulness than the less complex answer. Yeh and that doesnt work worth a shit when A calls B to pick up a load marked flour, to deliver to the wtc then C gets a fork truck and unloads it onto the dock, D is told to put it on floor 76. and thats a simple model and not one person knew what the hell they really did, not one person can be implicated and ocram is now used in EVERY argument I have ever seen it brought up regarding this subject to make a claim: "but do you know how many people that would take!! DUH!!!! o cramit says somebody would HAVE to talk! DUH!!!! Not when you dont know what you are delivering and if you do not when your wife and kids are gonna die if you do talk! DUH!!! Either case throws a big wrench into it. Sure it has its place and its a really handy way to reduce a discussion to abject ignorance! When a conspiracy theorist or internet kook writes or speaks negatively about Occam it is safe to surmise that he has no idea what he is actually talking about and that someone has previously used Occam to show that his grand beliefs are of no usefulness. It is then a safe bet that nothing useful will ever emanate from that source and based on based on how sadistic you feel you can goad the kook at your leisure. In the final analysis its used in a manner that proponents cry whine and scream that if its to complicated for a 2 year old to understand it that it violates o cramits razor!! LOL

Musicmystery -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 5:32:45 AM)
It's come to this. Mocking silly people who look to evidence. Bring on the witches.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 6:26:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It's come to this. Mocking silly people who look to evidence. Bring on the witches. no its come to mocking silly people who are in capable of properly concluding what evidence is even if it slaps them in the face. Like the guy just to prove a point went around getting signatures to abrogate the first amendment and 50% of the people signed. Bring on the police state.

Aneirin -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 6:32:42 AM)
I have asked this conspiracy theory question off line, to friends and colleagues and everyone I have found holds at least one, Lady Diana was murdered because she held a muslim baby in her womb, 9/11 was an inside job, Aids started as an experiment that got out of hand, and so on, even according to Wikipedia, that font of all knowledge it is said that. ..In the United States of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, conspiracy theories have become commonplace in mass media. This has contributed to conspiracism emerging as a cultural phenomenon and the possible replacement of democracy by conspiracy as the dominant paradigm of political action in the public mind.[2] According to anthropologists Todd Sanders and Harry G. West, "evidence suggests that a broad cross section of Americans today…gives credence to at least some conspiracy theories." But then as many online seems to consult wikipedia as the primary source of all knowledge, some even think wikipedia itself is a conspiracy theory due to the often erroneous information it holds,even an attempt to change popular and historic belief, the internet can do that it seems. So what have we got, this age of media, what has it given us, are we any better for having it, or has it been instrumental in creating a more paranoid, distrusting society which will eventually destroy all that we have built, could it be even that as a society, we are not yet mentally mature enough to view information and take it for what it is, the great media experiment has revealed what we truly are. Maybe the future of mankind is for more and more people to say bollocks to society and it's rat in a trap living and head out into the sticks, grab your gun and go and live in the mountains away from it all and people who may or may not want to cause you harm, sometimes , it is very tempting.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 7:14:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I have asked this conspiracy theory question off line, to friends and colleagues and everyone I have found holds at least one, Lady Diana was murdered because she held a muslim baby in her womb, 9/11 was an inside job, Aids started as an experiment that got out of hand, and so on, even according to Wikipedia, that font of all knowledge it is said that. ..In the United States of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, conspiracy theories have become commonplace in mass media. This has contributed to conspiracism emerging as a cultural phenomenon and the possible replacement of democracy by conspiracy as the dominant paradigm of political action in the public mind.[2] According to anthropologists Todd Sanders and Harry G. West, "evidence suggests that a broad cross section of Americans today…gives credence to at least some conspiracy theories." But then as many online seems to consult wikipedia as the primary source of all knowledge, some even think wikipedia itself is a conspiracy theory due to the often erroneous information it holds,even an attempt to change popular and historic belief, the internet can do that it seems. So what have we got, this age of media, what has it given us, are we any better for having it, or has it been instrumental in creating a more paranoid, distrusting society which will eventually destroy all that we have built, could it be even that as a society, we are not yet mentally mature enough to view information and take it for what it is, the great media experiment has revealed what we truly are. Maybe the future of mankind is for more and more people to say bollocks to society and it's rat in a trap living and head out into the sticks, grab your gun and go and live in the mountains away from it all and people who may or may not want to cause you harm, sometimes , it is very tempting. it comes down to educating people imo and that will never happen in the land of the willfully ignorant. only need to remember 2 things. While government is a necesary evil there wil always be the rogue elements within any government if not the government itself who will use its undue influence for the accomplishment of 2 goals. 1) Money and keeping it. 2) power and keeping it. I never realized how smooth this all tends to work out. In another thread I talked about everthing being incorporated and it used to be that whenever you went on the net you could type that in and up would pop all the data on the issue. Now all you get is the court SC case which really did not do a damn thing that was not already in place and its next to impossible to find any of the sites that carried in corporation data. coincidence? sure I could buy that if I did not know that everything in government was calculate with all risk assessed.

vincentML -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 7:59:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Whatever comes to pass often has a trail of evidence and proof, there can be many proofs with the evidence to provide that proof, but what makes one proof more accepted than other proofs ? Often proof is an obstruction to survival. If there is a rustle in the grass we cannot wait for proof it is a tiger. Imagination, conspiracy, suspicion are all valuable genetic tools. Proof is often a luxury for philosopher, mathematians, and casual debators. vincent, what a wonderful post!! I don't believe in many "conspiracy theories" but I like to keep an "open mind" in life. What a wonderful way of explaining what does not always have an explanation. To always need proof, means to limit possibilities that are not always spelled out for you. I like to be able to think outside the box, and I don't need to only "believe" concepts that have been "proven" by "the experts". I would not want to view the world, or live my life so narrow-minded as to think, I always need "proof" to even consider other possibilities. Thank you, MzMia. As you understand, I meant to suggest we inherited a need to be suspicious from ancestors who survived in the grasslands and the forest. Today our environment is much more complicated and layered. Our suspicions are more complicated and layered. We are susceptable to all sorts of weird beliefs, stories, gossip and rumours no matter how unrealistic they may be. Our task is to sort out the bullshit from the truth. Even so, the "truth" may be bullshit. As the Buffalo Springfield song says: "Paranoia strikes deep Into your life it will creep It starts when you're always afraid.." Conspiracies, fantasies, lies, paranoia .... However, there really may be a boogy man in the closet or a monster under the bed. We, can never be sure, can we? Hee, hee.... so, as the song also says: "We better stop, hey, what's that sound Everybody look what's going down" [sm=afraid.gif]" [sm=couch.gif]

pahunkboy -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 8:10:15 AM)
Well I for one wont listen to Ken or anyone who fell for the h1n1 scam. It is so safe that no one here cashed in on the 20k reward for the study. hahahaha. now all those adjustvants are mooshing around you and could unleash of fury of bad ailments. But hey- you believed that the sky was falling. hahahaha

vincentML -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 8:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Well I for one wont listen to Ken or anyone who fell for the h1n1 scam. It is so safe that no one here cashed in on the 20k reward for the study. hahahaha. now all those adjustvants are mooshing around you and could unleash of fury of bad ailments. But hey- you believed that the sky was falling. hahahaha Hunk, you may be right about h1n1. I had my doubts as well and did not get the vaccine. So far, so good. But, your fear of unleashed bad ailments also raises doubts (being kind here) Your statement seems way out of sorts with the long history of vaccines. Generally, vaccines have been a health blessing for our society. Sure am grateful for Jonas Salk.

Real0ne -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 8:20:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Well I for one wont listen to Ken or anyone who fell for the h1n1 scam. It is so safe that no one here cashed in on the 20k reward for the study. hahahaha. now all those adjustvants are mooshing around you and could unleash of fury of bad ailments. But hey- you believed that the sky was falling. hahahaha how about "MAN MADE" global warming? When dirty al's graph showed we are in a cooling cycle! LOL kennedy, tonkin, uss liberty, 911, murrah, katrina, waco I think people go into denial because they cannot deal with the idea that the government rogues will kill you in a new york sec if it serves their interest and then cover it up. No one wants to think about that is what we have become. Like cows, the wolves trim the outside of the herd and the inside say whew glad it wasnt me!

DomKen -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 9:20:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Well I for one wont listen to Ken or anyone who fell for the h1n1 scam. It is so safe that no one here cashed in on the 20k reward for the study. hahahaha. now all those adjustvants are mooshing around you and could unleash of fury of bad ailments. But hey- you believed that the sky was falling. hahahaha Yeah, H1N1 was nothing to take action about. It only killed 9500 or so in the US under age 65 (that is people who basically never die from the flu). If all those millions of people wouldn't have gotten vaccinated then maybe the morons who believe the anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists could have been freaking out that the NWO had begun the genocidal extirmination of people. Face it hunky, the real doctors and scientists were right and the vaccine saved thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives.

pahunkboy -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 9:23:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Well I for one wont listen to Ken or anyone who fell for the h1n1 scam. It is so safe that no one here cashed in on the 20k reward for the study. hahahaha. now all those adjustvants are mooshing around you and could unleash of fury of bad ailments. But hey- you believed that the sky was falling. hahahaha Yeah, H1N1 was nothing to take action about. It only killed 9500 or so in the US under age 65 (that is people who basically never die from the flu). If all those millions of people wouldn't have gotten vaccinated then maybe the morons who believe the anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists could have been freaking out that the NWO had begun the genocidal extirmination of people. Face it hunky, the real doctors and scientists were right and the vaccine saved thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives. then it should be an easy 20k. lol.

pahunkboy -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 9:26:17 AM)
http://dprogram.net/2010/01/21/10000-reward-offered-for-scientific-proof-of-h1n1-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness-mike-adams/

DomKen -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 9:29:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy http://dprogram.net/2010/01/21/10000-reward-offered-for-scientific-proof-of-h1n1-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness-mike-adams/ The studies to win the 10k would cost several million dollars. Doesn't strike me as a good investment considering the enormously negative rate of return even if the frauds behind it could be counted on to pay up.

pahunkboy -> RE: Conspiracy theories ? (1/26/2010 10:03:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy http://dprogram.net/2010/01/21/10000-reward-offered-for-scientific-proof-of-h1n1-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness-mike-adams/ The studies to win the 10k would cost several million dollars. Doesn't strike me as a good investment considering the enormously negative rate of return even if the frauds behind it could be counted on to pay up. Then why inject it into your body when the vaccine industry is too cheap to properly test it? I am worth the several million. I dont want just any garbage pumped into my body. Besides all you have to do to claim the award is show the study which has already been done and published. So the cost to you is nothing.

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