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Confused - 9/7/2004 5:15:17 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		When a submissive is considering a Dom, how much should she comprimise? I know I should ask myself, and I have. I'm just not sure how much I should give on. Would she not be submitting to him if she would not give on some? What is the difference between having limits and nonsubmission? I have limits I would not comprimise on period, and those are respected. But, what if it's something I'm just not sure of? I'm sooooo confused...lol.

Thanks in advance,

Myra

_____________________________

Myra
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 5:45:47 PM   
lilninotchka


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SentForu

When a submissive is considering a Dom, how much should she comprimise? I know I should ask myself, and I have. I'm just not sure how much I should give on. Would she not be submitting to him if she would not give on some? What is the difference between having limits and nonsubmission? I have limits I would not comprimise on period, and those are respected. But, what if it's something I'm just not sure of? I'm sooooo confused...lol.

Thanks in advance,

Myra


i can't answer these questions for you - no one can.

i can tell you how i feel though...just to give you another's view. When i consider a Dominant partner, if it is to be a long term type of relationship (i am assuming that is what you are referring to here - if not, i'm sorry to have mistaken it), i do not look at specific things that i will or won't do initially, but rather, i take a hard look at his personality and style. If that is a good match, things can then go on to specifics. Aside from the few things i cannot bring myself to be involved in (ie i would rather not die, or have anything to do with anyone underage) everything is 'negotiable' (read, if He really wants it, it's ok with me). If He truly wants that for which He asks, i will give it to Him. Period. i would hope that He has made the determination, before He demands anything, about what your personal feelings on it are, how you may react to being 'forced' into it, etc and made His decision to 'demand' it based upon every piece of information He could gather. To me 'not submissive' is not allowing Him the opportunity to gather that information and make that decision and/or not going willingly with His decision after He makes it...'hard limit' is something you already KNOW you cannot handle under any circumstance and He knows that upfront. If you do not know, it should not be stated as a hard limit, but rather as a dislike or unknown.

As i said, just my personal view on it - take what works for you, if anything, and leave the rest...and good luck. Figuring out what the definitions are as they relate to yourself and/or your partner is not an easy thing and they are different for everybody.

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 5:55:30 PM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

Ok, first of all....a little background about what i consider to be included in the consideration phase for a Dominant. In this period of time discussions regarding limits - especially hard ones should be discussed simply as a way of ensuring that one partner's most endearing, most beloved, greatest form of expression, etc activity does not happen to show up on the other partner's list of Things I Absolutely Will Not Do. Soft limits should be discussed as well for a similar reason - if too many of the Dominant's favorite activities are also appearing on your List Of Things I Really Can't Ever See Me Doing - it's probably not the best match for either of you.

There, all that being said.....

If a Dominant was approaching me and saying let's try pushing these particular soft limits before there was a period of time investing in getting to know each other, being comfortable with his style of Dominance and Him becoming used to your submission, reactions and thought processes....i would consider this to be one of those nice, big neon lights that go off in our heads saying 'Red Flag'. It's my opinion that a Dominant cannot begin to change Their submissive until some growth has occured within the relationship - and i consider pushing limits to be a prime example of that sort of change.

But in the end....it really does depend on what your comfortable with and the type of relationship that you're seeking to enter into. i'm more of the LTR oriented type and as such i'm sure i see things very much differently than those who are interested in entering into more casual/short-term relationships. Hopefully some of these people will reply as well so that you have a diverse background to offer comments!

Well wishes

_____________________________

Wilted petals fall from a rose like bitters tears wrung from a heart whose dreams have shattered. What hope for the future can be seen by eyes that are darkened with sorrow neverending?

i'm not manic-depressive, i just have an elliptical personality

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 6:07:16 PM   
theroebabe


Posts: 3155
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline 		If it were me and i am going thru this as well when i talk to people, i have to know how important something is to me. If that thing is very important you have to ask yourself how is it going to make me feel with or without that thing. If there are a lot of those things then to me it means that you may be wonderful people but not neccessarily together. You may not be compatable on the things that matter in life or in play if they are play issues.

And soft limits can be addressed as time goes on to me, they do not all have to be addressed in the beginning.

So my point would be if it is something that is that important to you then maybe you do not want to compromise. If it isnt then it isnt. And if i found myself always having to compromise then i would say this person might not be for me.

Good luck in your decisions! Roe

_____________________________

Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 6:40:11 PM   
ScorpioMaster


Posts: 146
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline 		I would have to ask how long have you been in the lifestyle or if you are a real new to the lifestyle. There are some hard Limits were you would not cross while some light limits are those things you can learn to push your self beyond. One example of your one hard limit is a defiantly a no no like blood letting. Then a light limit is were you’re Dom can slowly work you through it by pushing you to go beyond it. My girl is about a month new and one limit was no flogging but I gave her a chance to experience it by flogging her and now she loves it. When I first present the idea of being flogged we had seen a very extreme BDSM DVD were the sound of the flogger sounded worse than the real experience. This month was the girl first taste in the lifestyle and she has gone to munches, sloshes, play parties, and a Leather event. The one thing you need to be concern about is not topping from the bottom.

< Message edited by ScorpioMaster -- 9/7/2004 6:46:09 PM >

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 6:57:51 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScorpioMaster

The one thing you need to be concern about is not topping from the bottom.


Feh.

Perhaps that's the one thing she would need to be concerned about if she was YOUR partner, but not everyone has the same knee-jerk reaction to that phrase. In fact, some of us find it to be a plus, rather than a minus.

Try not to paint us all with YOUR brush, hm?

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to ScorpioMaster)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 7:15:12 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

When a submissive is considering a Dom, how much should she comprimise? I know I should ask myself, and I have. I'm just not sure how much I should give on. Would she not be submitting to him if she would not give on some? What is the difference between having limits and nonsubmission? I have limits I would not comprimise on period, and those are respected. But, what if it's something I'm just not sure of?


When I was searching I made myself a list of wants and absolute needs. The absolute needs had to be within any Dominant I spoke to. The wants, well the word speaks for itself. If anyone told me outright they wanted to push this limit or that limit. I discarded them right away.
Why do you want to be with someone who clearly doesn't like you for who you are in the very beginning? Would'nt that sort of be a red flag from day one? Knowing they are going to push and break your limits?
If it is something you aren't sure of. Be honest. Is it something you would'nt mind experimenting with? Does he or she understand if you end up not liking it, it may turn into a limit? Are they willing to respect your wishes?
Just communicate your fears. If the Dominant is worth anything they will talk to you about it. The two of you will come to some sort of conclusion.

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 7:55:04 PM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScorpioMaster

The one thing you need to be concern about is not topping from the bottom.


I really don't want You to feel like You're being singled out ScorpioMaster but i've got to disagree with this one as well.

From the admittedly small amount of information that we have about this situation it seems to me that SentForu is just growing to know this Dominant and has not in fact made any sort of real committment to Him (thus the 'consideration' reference). While i agree from Your point of view the submissive's that You interact with may have to be mindful not to 'top from the bottom' but with the risks & dangers inherent in this Lifestyle i think that is a dangerous statement to make to a new submissive who is being courted by an unknown Dominant. Perhaps He's a good guy but maybe not? If this person is less than desirable adherring to advice such as not topping from the bottom could land her in some serious harm. My advice - until she knows Him and is comfortable with Him (which in my opinion she's not or she wouldn't have these types of 'hmm, i'm not too sure about this' feelings) then yes she should top from the bottom! At this point she's the only one that knows what's really going on inside her head, what direction the relationship is headed, and where she wants the relationship to go. There's plenty of time to grow within her submission and participate in the power exchange dynamic after some time has passed - not while in the consideration phase.

Once again....not picking on You at all as i respect where You're coming from at all but i do feel that the sentiment needed to be made.

p.s. Oh, yes....one thing that i neglected to mention - SentForu is new to the Lifestyle (at least new to rt interaction) as she's alluded to in previous threads - thus my bit of overbearing, mothering, *grr* keep her safe sort of attitude!

To SentForu - *hugs* you're gonna make someone a wonderful subbie so let it flow along naturally and trust your instincts.

Well wishes

< Message edited by Destinysskeins -- 9/7/2004 7:59:31 PM >

_____________________________

Wilted petals fall from a rose like bitters tears wrung from a heart whose dreams have shattered. What hope for the future can be seen by eyes that are darkened with sorrow neverending?

i'm not manic-depressive, i just have an elliptical personality

(in reply to ScorpioMaster)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 8:39:23 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I have limits I would not comprimise on period, and those are respected. But, what if it's something I'm just not sure of? I'm sooooo confused...lol.


It looks as if your hard limits are being respected. That is a good sign. There are some things that I'm sure you are interested in trying. Talk with him about doing those. The other things I would forget about for now, and concentrate on building trust in the relationship. Once the trust is there, you will feel more comfortable trying some of the soft limit activities. You will know that you are in good hands by then.

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 8:56:33 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		Thank all of you for your advice. Destinysskeins, that's sweet of you to worry about me. Though, I should have talked a bit more to him about it. LOL, here's the kick. I'm so used to coming here, and getting wonderful advice. There's such a variety here. Of course, it's all about him. It doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks. I should have realized that by now. Well, I guess that comes with being a newbie....

The thing here is, I have no real life friends in the lifestyle. So, ya'll are the only ones I have been coming to. Old habits die hard. Besides, there's such lovely people here....

Thanks again,

Myra

< Message edited by SentForu -- 9/7/2004 8:57:34 PM >

_____________________________

Myra

(in reply to Destinysskeins)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 9:08:55 PM   
angelica4


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		well, i am happy to add my two cents. there are certain things that no one should have to compromise about: truth, mutual respect, integrity. if it is a good fit, it will FEEL good to you, it will not leave you with unhappy innards. that is not to say that there will not be physical pain/pleasure, but it is often wise to go with the heart....and then stick to it. are you progressing? do you sense a strength of spirit in yourself? are you both committed to each other? there are no easy answers, dear one. we can share with each other what we know from our own experiences, but ultimately, the journey is one taken alone, no matter how tightly you hold on to someone else's hand.

my love to you,
angelica

_____________________________

"I've known her from an ample nation choose One,
then close the valves of her attention, like stone."

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 9:18:16 PM   
angelica4


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Incidentally, don't be discouraged about not having real life "buddies" in the lifestyle. it is wise to be very selective, just as in the rest of your life. when i first got into this crazy business, i wanted to be everyone's friend, wanted to hang out with lifestyle folks, etc., and did. now i find that i just want to be with THE ONE. the exploration of yourself will be the instrument leading you to the best friend you could ever have.

_____________________________

"I've known her from an ample nation choose One,
then close the valves of her attention, like stone."

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Confused - 9/7/2004 10:25:18 PM   
ShrewWhisperer


Posts: 63
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		Well what I'm about to say is probably going to be unpopular because it goes against the general notion of D&S, I'm hoping the Dommes will at least support some of the notions even if they don't agree in total, since at least in my expierence they are more in tune with things as they are, not how things read in a book somewhere....

A dom is in the game for his sub. Her wants, her goals, her needs are paramount, now I know that sounds backwards, cuz she's the one on her knees doing the work, but she's not having to think..having to judge...having to figger out how to get the desired responses.

So the most important aspect of a dom you can find is his ability to "read your moods" if not your thoughts..and the mutual ability to be honest with each other before and after. If he wants to fuck you after you come back from your Mom's funeral...well mebbe that ain't the kind of dom you'd want, conversely if you are on an extended road trip and get horny and are doing the seat-twitch for 50 miles and all he is thinking about is finding supper, same thing holds true.

Then soft limits, hard limits, they become secondary, there is a thrill in being pushed to an edge, but only if you know, KNOW, the one pushing you won't push you over cuz he's so wrapped up in his own gig he forgets falling to your death ain't all that sexy for everybody involved.

Here is the hard part...
Finding a dom who asks questions, to learn your mind....who isn't asking cuz of his own insecurities/crap, but cuz it's part of the job.

in a lot of ways, a dom's life is the david bowie line from labyrnith...."worship me and I'll be your slave" though they were talking about madness in the movie it applies to day to day with a sub & dom, he has to get the respect of a caring god, but he has to be able to make himself second in ego to what the sub can do....so she can learn and trust so she can do more, until she finally will get out of the entire gig what she is seeking.

Doms who can't do this, and the subs who reward them for not being able to do it, well they are just vanilla fuckers who found a cute kink with nice costumes and interesting toys and by the tenor of the orginal posters remarks, she's looking for more, and its my opinion we all deserve more than the easy road where nothing is gained --not even memories, nothing is learned, --esp. real passion.

okay wait before starting the shelling, let me hop into my bunker and get my helmet on,
....okay fire when ready Griddley.

(in reply to angelica4)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 6:05:15 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		*smiles* you're quite welcome - i remember not having very many Lifestyle friends and thinking, man - i'd really like to talk with someone about this but hmm, yeah that's not gonna happen with my vanilla friends! i wish you the very best of luck in your journey!

_____________________________

Wilted petals fall from a rose like bitters tears wrung from a heart whose dreams have shattered. What hope for the future can be seen by eyes that are darkened with sorrow neverending?

i'm not manic-depressive, i just have an elliptical personality

(in reply to ShrewWhisperer)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 7:57:04 AM   
Synocense


Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline 		Compromise. We all do it to one extent or another in every day life. When it comes to these offbeat relationships, however, one place there is no room to compromise, it is in the NEEDS department. No matter what it is, if a need is set aside or replaced by something less, it is my experience that it will eventually lead to some regret and resentment. If a dominant person NEEDS to control someone at a high level, yet the submissive person he/she is with can not/will not/should not submit on that level, then a problem is bound to arise. Should either of them compromise on this? Not in my opinion they shouldn't. My point is that you have to decide what is a NEED and what is a want for you at this time (keep in mind, these two things often change with growth - from age to experience) then in the course of communication/negotiation you can weigh the compatibility factor. Never be afraid to say "I'm sorry, our needs just differ" at any time. Some couples grow together, some grow apart, but never have I seen a truly happy person who compromised his/her NEEDS. Make any sense?

Good luck!
Syn

(in reply to lilninotchka)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 1:59:04 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline 		There have been enough things said here which I agree with that I feel a little arbitrary at picking out this post to reply to, but ShrewWhisperer hoped for some support from Doms, so here it is. I can't find fault with a thing that he said.

If you want to be a doormat, go find the ugliest drunk in your local trailer park. Abuse is very easy to come by.

If you want a playmate, go have fun, just be careful and never let him get between yourself and the nearest exit.

I don't believe in velcro collars, or even consideration collars, myself. She put on my wedding ring some time before she put on my collar, and that has always seemed totally correct to me. So, if you seek something more, and something lasting, here's my extremist view...

There was, and is, zero compromise in my own D/s relationship, and I hope that a lot of you folks out there feel the same about yours. Some relationships die as the parties disagree over little things. The feelings which brought the people together are gone, and the disagreements are just symptoms of that. In good relationships, things which might be excuses for arguing are instead loved as part of the whole, or at least overlooked and forgotten about. Fifteen years of bad vanilla marriage taught me that once the honeymoon really feels over, you may as well cash in your chips and move on. It will never get much better, and it's likely to get worse. Is this a Dom you feel like you could appreciate every waking minute, and forever be in awe of the way that fate let you find each other? Were you cut out of the same piece of cloth, or is wishful thinking causing you to imagine commonality which isn't there?

If you have experienced lousy relationships, defining your needs and appreciating their fulfillment will be a lot easier. I encourage you to spend a lot of thought on what your limits are (giving *yourself* the benefit of the doubt) and what your priorities are -- as another poster said, what you NEED. The only way to fail in your submission is to be unwilling to follow where you're led, and if you've clearly and accurately defined where you don't want to go, that should never happen. It's easy to give away your rights, you can do that any day of the week. Getting them back is a different story, so take your time. If a Dom is really in it for the long haul, he won't have any need to rush you, and if he's just the Dom for you, your limits would be roughly the same anyway. It is not all about him, it's all about you, plural. If it's not what you both want, then it's worthless. Compromises right off the bat make me think that it's not a very good match, and won't last long. That's my feeling, anyway.

It is perfectly possible to get (and give) it all. Whenever, with whoever, I hope it happens to you.

(in reply to ShrewWhisperer)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 2:31:46 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		NoCalOwner,
Thanks for the advice. Maybe comprimise wasn't the best term again. I have trust issues. I know I shouldn't, but they're there reguardless. He has not done anything to warrant them, they come from past relationships. If I'm really honest with myself, the problem is a total trust in another, that complete giving of myself. It's just something I have to work through myself, I guess. I also know I have not given much information here. Sometimes, these boards are very good tools in "sounding off". No, I'm not looking to be a doormat, or a playmate. Just your everyday lasting relationship.

Thanks again everyone,

Myra

_____________________________

Myra

(in reply to NoCalOwner)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 3:21:04 PM   
ShrewWhisperer


Posts: 63
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		trust issues, esp. when they stem from the Real World, or past vanilla relationships...

these can be overcome through the life, in many ways the entire thing is one big trust-game.
I'm going to turn Happy whats'hisface from the saturdaynightlive skits a few years ago....

pull yourself up naked in front of a full length mirror...figger out if there is something wrong with you..not flaws, we all have an extra couple of pounds or a jutting hip bone or something we can hate about ourselves, what I mean is within the body god gave you is there something not worth those things you are seeking....

hopefully when you figure out the answer is no....and if you don't get that answer find a shrink who can help with the self esteem issues...realize whatever happens in this life you have the power to escape. Yeah you may waste some time on a bad endevor, but that is all you lose --assuming there are no ted bundy's in your future, and time while precious, is worth less than wilting within cuz you never tried.

sometimes the point is the journey, of going through various dom's til you find the right one, for YOU....if he's not right, it doesn't make him bad or good, it doesn't make you bad or good, it means the fit wasn't the best fit....you don't feel bad going into a mall and tryign on different clothes til you find THE outfit you want, it's kinda the same thing, you don't need to torture yourself cuz yellow ain't your color, go with green and walla! you are ready to go dancing.

and on a more human side...I know how hard it is to keep getting back up on the horse when you fall off, but ya gotta do it, otherwise you get afraid of horses and then how on earth are you going to ride off into the sunset with the right dom of your dreams?

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Confused - 9/8/2004 4:20:06 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SentForu
I have trust issues. I know I shouldn't, but they're there...

Until lying becomes impossible, we're all gonna have trust issues, hon, and they aren't necessarily bad. Hope that you find the happy medium between paranoia and naivete, I'm still looking for that myself.

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Confused - 9/13/2004 4:00:03 PM   
angelica4


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		One problem subs tend to have, is getting into something before they know WHAT it is...In my own naivete, i wanted to believe whatever was told me, because i was so damn excited about my new lifestyle, and i felt we were all just one big happy family. add to that the reticence at the time for subs or masters to talk about "the bad ones"....because it is a kind of judgment of others, to say that what HE does is wrong...it's a bit like walking a tightrope. we do what we have to do to stay upright.....i endured a few months of a lying Dominant, until finally i realized i didn't like THAT very much! so by the time i was ready to leave, it wasn't painful at all. it was like going on a holiday.
be well
angelica

(in reply to NoCalOwner)
Profile   Post #: 20
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