RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option

RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 12:02:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually it ws done by Research 2000 for Progressive Change Campaign Committee abd Democracy for America but don't let the facts get in your way. What, are we trading places? Advocacy polling is advocacy polling. Firm You made an incorrect statement and I corrected you. Your statement of gratitude for the correction seems to have been garbled somehow. BTW if anyone actually cares the questions asked are included in the article linked in the OP, along with the fact of who actually did the polling on the first line of the article. Sooooo.... you don't consider this advocacy polling? Firm Not your boring tapdance again. You do realize that with the mods having stepped back I can now freely point oput the actual facts. You criticized the poll without clicking through to read the linked article, because the questions and who did the polling are included in the text. This is standard procedure for you since you like to pretend to intellect but refuse to consider anything that might challenge your narrow world view. I pointed out that you had made untrue claims and gave you every opportunity to acknowledge your error, primarily because I keep hoping you will grow up. However you remain stuck in your immature inability to acknowldge when you're wrong. Now you're thinking that if only you can change the subject it will all go away. Nope I'm not playing your game. You'll call it advocacy polling despite the fact that it was done by well respected professionals. You'll keep calling it advocacy polling despite having the questions presented to you to show that they were worded neutrally. Stop trying to distract from your failing of making wrong claims that you wouldn't have made if you had bothered to read the first line of the linked article.

FirmhandKY -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 2:45:10 PM)
Quoting the very first comment to the story about the poll, I think, is enough: quote: something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get none of the public option plans proposed by congress are accurately or even remotely described by this. welcome to the world of selling the po by comparing to something that was created as a single payer quote: ORIGINAL: Domken You do realize that with the mods having stepped back I can now freely point oput the actual facts. You mean so that you are free to insult and play the "everyone who disagrees with me is stupid, and now I can insult them freely" game? [:D] Firm

DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 3:01:06 PM)
How predicatble. Selective editing and then pretending to hurt feelings. Is there any chance what so ever that you will get past this pathetic passive aggressive crap?

AsmodaisSin -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 4:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex quote: ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin Why not set up some sort of health care run by the states? Allow inter and intrastate trade with health care programs? Why not strength programs like CHIP and revamp WIC, Medicaid and Medicare? Military health care and the like? Health care for college students while they're getting their degrees? As a conservative, I support THOSE options. As someone who doesn't currently have health insurance, I support those options. These are all fine ideas, some of which probably work. It isn't that there is only one way to solve a problem. I am just curious as to why you carefully separate out these ideas, from others like a public insurance pool (the "public option") or single payer (like Medicare, expanded to cover everyone). Edited to add- to clarify- why your ideas are "conservative" is what mystifies me; Military care and Medicare are both single payer government run solutions- the sort of thing Sarah Palin freaks out about. I like Palin as a person, but I even disagree with other conservatives on a lot of things. I do not LIKE the idea of publicly paid for health care, but it seems like those are options that need to be looked it.

AnimusRex -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 4:40:27 PM)
Options such as the public option and single payer would have been looked at, had the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats in Congress and Tea Party activists such as Sarah Palin allowed it. Maybe someday our grandchildren will be able to discuss such things without Sarah Palin's grandchildren accusing them of wanting to set up Death Panels to kill Grandma.

Thadius -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 4:50:17 PM)
Evening Ken, I did actually click through to see the full poll, and to check out what methods were used for it. As the quote about "even in swing districts ...", which suggests that in non-swing districts this is already settled fact. Anyways, after checking out the poll and the 10 districts that they called swing districts, I wonder what the polling data would show for the other 48 or so "swing seats". 7 of the 10 freshman Dem districts they polled have a PVI that leans to the left as it is, with an average of 2.24. With a margin of error of 6.9% for each district, and how close the polling actually was, I would suggest that this is far from a mandate. There were a couple of really interesting questions in the poll, and the results seem to contradict (in my opiniion) the suggestion that the public option is hugely important. quote: QUESTION: If Congress does not pass a public health insurance option as part of health care reform, will that make you more likely or less likely to vote for Democrats in the 2010 general election or would it have no real effect on your vote? MORE LESS NO EFFECT OVERALL 10% 35% 55% DEMOCRATS 5% 55% 40% REPUBLICANS 19% 6% 75% INDEPENDENTS 8% 43% 49% CO-04 (Markey) 11% 34% 55% FL-24 (Kosmas) 14% 36% 50% MI-07 (Schauer) 7% 39% 54% NC-08 (Kissell) 7% 38% 55% NM-01 (Heinrich) 9% 35% 56% NM-02 (Teague) 13% 34% 53% OH-01 (Driehaus) 10% 33% 57% OH-15 (Kilroy) 11% 34% 55% OH-16 (Boccieri) 12% 32% 56% VA-05 (Perriello) 10% 32% 58% Note most folks say it will have no effect on who they will vote for. quote:* QUESTION: If Congress does not pass a public option as part of health care reform, will that make you more likely or less likely to vote in the 2010 general election, or no effect? MORE LESS NO EFFECT OVERALL 10% 33% 57% DEMOCRATS 5% 52% 43% REPUBLICANS 18% 11% 71% INDEPENDENTS 7% 42% 51% CO-04 (Markey) 11% 31% 58% FL-24 (Kosmas) 12% 32% 56% MI-07 (Schauer) 7% 36% 57% NC-08 (Kissell) 8% 37% 55% NM-01 (Heinrich) 9% 35% 56% NM-02 (Teague) 10% 33% 57% OH-01 (Driehaus) 10% 33% 57% OH-15 (Kilroy) 9% 32% 59% OH-16 (Boccieri) 10% 30% 60% VA-05 (Perriello) 12% 31% 57% Note most folks say that it won't effect whether they even vote or not. quote:* QUESTION: Would you be more likely to vote for the re-election of your local Democratic House member if they worked to pass the Senate’s version of health care reform with minimal changes, if any – OR if they worked to add a public health insurance option to the bill that competes head-to-head with private insurance? PUBLIC OPTION SENATE NOT SURE OVERALL 37% 7% 56% DEMOCRATS 75% 10% 15% REPUBLICANS 6% 4% 90% INDEPENDENTS 33% 6% 61% *Note the reponses from Repubs and Indies... Definitely an advocacy poll, but there is nothing wrong with either side getting some numbers to snapshot how their policies and positions are sitting with the people. The only problem with this type of polling (on both sides of the political spectrum) is the believing that these polls are the gospel, or in only seeing what you want to see in them. Have a great night, Thadius

Thadius -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 4:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex Options such as the public option and single payer would have been looked at, had the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats in Congress and Tea Party activists such as Sarah Palin allowed it. Maybe someday our grandchildren will be able to discuss such things without Sarah Palin's grandchildren accusing them of wanting to set up Death Panels to kill Grandma. Cool, when did they take control of the Dem supermajority again? I didn't even realize that Palin was a Dem., much less her grandchildren being in that kind of power position. At least now with the Mass. election, the Dems have an actual boogey man they can blame for not getting these promises passed.

DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 5:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Definitely an advocacy poll, but there is nothing wrong with either side getting some numbers to snapshot how their policies and positions are sitting with the people. The only problem with this type of polling (on both sides of the political spectrum) is the believing that these polls are the gospel, or in only seeing what you want to see in them. Have a great night, Thadius Now there is the problem with calling any poll an "advocacy." Did this poll use neutral language produced by professional pollsters? Yes. Was there an attempt to skew results by using loaded phrases or weasel words? No. The fact is that the poll questions were on a single subject but that doesn't make it anything other than a single subject poll. It was a nice try at rehabilitating firm's failed gambit but firm's claims remains the same sort of pathetic crap of trying to disregard every main stream media source as being "far left" and "unreliable." I had to put up with that stupid ies previously but not any more.

DomImus -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 5:34:42 PM)
In another thread there are plenty of people ripping the Super Bowl ad featuring Tim Tebow and his mother. The ad hasn't even aired yet. Brain, sometimes people draw conclusions in the absence of any information based on their own biases and assumptions. That's life.

luckydawg -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 5:38:30 PM)
No, the fact is that there were questions about several subjects. It was not a single subject poll. http://act.boldprogressives.org question 1 "QUESTION: Are Democrats in Washington more on the side of the lobbyists and special interests or on the side of people like you?/cms/sign/frontlinepoll/ Q2 "QUESTION: Are Democrats in Washington doing too much to fight corporate America or should they do more to fight big corporations? Q3 "QUESTION: What comes closer to the lesson you think Democrats should learn from the recent Senate election in Massachusetts, where the seat formerly held by Ted Kennedy was won by a Republican: Voters want Democrats to slow down and try to do less, OR Voters are upset about the slow pace of change – and will hold Democrats accountable if they refuse to use their power to fight special interests on behalf of regular people? at 5 they start to ask about health care. in 6 as was already pointed out to you, they missdefine the current health proposal as "something like Medicare" which it isn't. any poll that uses a fake definition in the question is by definition advocacy polling......Thats simply factuall Now as to your false claim that it was a single subject poll, along with insults, I await your acknowledgement, that you did not read the poll in question, and was making shit up.

luckydawg -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 5:39:51 PM)
Furthermore, the Mods never stopped anyone from posting facts. To pretend they did is just lame

Thadius -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 5:44:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Definitely an advocacy poll, but there is nothing wrong with either side getting some numbers to snapshot how their policies and positions are sitting with the people. The only problem with this type of polling (on both sides of the political spectrum) is the believing that these polls are the gospel, or in only seeing what you want to see in them. Have a great night, Thadius Now there is the problem with calling any poll an "advocacy." Did this poll use neutral language produced by professional pollsters? Yes. Was there an attempt to skew results by using loaded phrases or weasel words? No. The fact is that the poll questions were on a single subject but that doesn't make it anything other than a single subject poll. It was a nice try at rehabilitating firm's failed gambit but firm's claims remains the same sort of pathetic crap of trying to disregard every main stream media source as being "far left" and "unreliable." I had to put up with that stupid ies previously but not any more. You don't find the questions about reelection and the allowable answers to be loaded? Such as: quote: QUESTION: Would you be more likely to vote for the re-election of your local Democratic House member if they worked to pass the Senate’s version of health care reform with minimal changes, if any – OR if they worked to add a public health insurance option to the bill that competes head-to-head with private insurance? PUBLIC OPTION SENATE NOT SURE No option for not voting for the Dem candidate? Or the conclussions they draw from some of the questions seem to be more weighted than others. Such as the first statement they make is that 68% of all voters favor a public option, when one of their own questions and results show that 90% of Repubs and 61% of Indies would vote for a different candidate if the public option or Senate version are supported by the current Representative. The poll is interesting as I noted in the previous post, and some questions and responses seem to contradict any conclusive findings. As I also stated that the intent of the poll is quite clear, and is very telling by the final for Dems only question... Nothing wrong with that. The one question I would love to ask and have answered is why they chose these specific 10 districts, and not others. Why not throw in a freshman Repub district as a control, or one of the other 48 estimated "swing" districts? As always, Thadius

DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 9:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg No, the fact is that there were questions about several subjects. It was not a single subject poll. http://act.boldprogressives.org question 1 "QUESTION: Are Democrats in Washington more on the side of the lobbyists and special interests or on the side of people like you?/cms/sign/frontlinepoll/ Q2 "QUESTION: Are Democrats in Washington doing too much to fight corporate America or should they do more to fight big corporations? Q3 "QUESTION: What comes closer to the lesson you think Democrats should learn from the recent Senate election in Massachusetts, where the seat formerly held by Ted Kennedy was won by a Republican: Voters want Democrats to slow down and try to do less, OR Voters are upset about the slow pace of change – and will hold Democrats accountable if they refuse to use their power to fight special interests on behalf of regular people? at 5 they start to ask about health care. in 6 as was already pointed out to you, they missdefine the current health proposal as "something like Medicare" which it isn't. any poll that uses a fake definition in the question is by definition advocacy polling......Thats simply factuall Now as to your false claim that it was a single subject poll, along with insults, I await your acknowledgement, that you did not read the poll in question, and was making shit up. If you think those first questions aren't about HCR you need to go get your money back from who ever taught you to read.

DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/28/2010 9:34:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius You don't find the questions about reelection and the allowable answers to be loaded? Such as: quote: QUESTION: Would you be more likely to vote for the re-election of your local Democratic House member if they worked to pass the Senate’s version of health care reform with minimal changes, if any – OR if they worked to add a public health insurance option to the bill that competes head-to-head with private insurance? PUBLIC OPTION SENATE NOT SURE No option for not voting for the Dem candidate? old rule of good polling keep the number of rsponses small. All available options for this question would have been a mess. Although I do acknowledge this wasn't the most artfully worded question I've ever seen I also don't see any thing biased in the question or answers beyond needing abroader 3rd option. quote: Or the conclussions they draw from some of the questions seem to be more weighted than others. Such as the first statement they make is that 68% of all voters favor a public option, when one of their own questions and results show that 90% of Repubs and 61% of Indies would vote for a different candidate if the public option or Senate version are supported by the current Representative. The poll is interesting as I noted in the previous post, and some questions and responses seem to contradict any conclusive findings. As I also stated that the intent of the poll is quite clear, and is very telling by the final for Dems only question... Nothing wrong with that. The one question I would love to ask and have answered is why they chose these specific 10 districts, and not others. Why not throw in a freshman Repub district as a control, or one of the other 48 estimated "swing" districts? As always, Thadius I think those 10 districts are the 10 where the seats switched from GOP to Democratic in 2008. Is there a freshman GOP who took a seat that was Democratic held in 2008?

luckydawg -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/29/2010 12:35:29 AM)
QUESTION: Generally speaking do you think Barack Obama and Democrats in Washington, DC are delivering enough on the change Obama promised to bring to America during the campaign? This is part of a single issue poll? Seriously? The first 2 questions are about far more than health care. And to the extent they are about Health Care they are defining of the issue in Democratic mode terms. And I did miss your response to it being pointed out that the Poll defines the Current Health Proposal as "something like medicare". We all know that is not true. Or are you pretending it is?

DomKen -> RE: 51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option (1/29/2010 10:25:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg And I did miss your response to it being pointed out that the Poll defines the Current Health Proposal as "something like medicare". We all know that is not true. Or are you pretending it is? So how many times will you post this lie? The question does not equate the current proposal as something like medicare. The entire question: quote: Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of a government administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans? which is clearly about a potential public option not the curent bills. When are you going to be able to debate an issue without simply making shit up?

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