RE: Limits & Compatibility

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MAMandSlave -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 9:13:59 AM)
I read the original post, and what it seemed to me that you are asking others to respect your hard limits, but “he needs to be open to exploring and expanding his hard limits." As long as this is made clear up front, that you will not be treating the hard limits he sets as limits, but as situations to be worked into gradually, then it should not be a problem. I have several different activities that I enjoy that are frequently set as a limit, and during negotiations make sure that the person I am negotiating with understands that my preferences will dominate the situation, and that I will be renegotiating with them so we can revisit these topics once they are more comfortable in the relationship and feel they can trust me. Basically, most things in bdsm, it just requires continued communication. I wouldn't class it as nonconsensual as long as the individual you are playing with understands those hard limits will be pushed at your pleasure and that you don't consider them hard limits.

RCdc -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 10:29:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Submissives, how do you feel about the above statement? - LA Greetings LadyAngelika! I wouldn't be interested in doing the whole limit thing and I never have. Of course that doesn't make me obviously insane... (according to the law of CM) I am very comfortable with my insanity... the voices keep me company...[;)] the.dark.

lally2 -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 11:12:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 it might be because i used to go in with a 'no limits with You' given our shared predilictions, but i think that opens everything up far too wide in the begining. Hi lally, This sentence above struck me, and I kept coming back to it. I think it's because "in the beginning" we weren't even talking about play or limits - we were getting to know each other. He did not take (nor did I give) ownership of me until we were both well on our way in developing a relationship, and were confident in knowing and understanding each other's moral character. Even submitting in the beginning was minimal - a very gradual and slow process. It's what we both needed, given our histories. So in my particular case, there was no opening up too wide in the beginning, because we weren't even going there yet. Even now, nearly a year later, he continues to navigate this relationship slowly forward, continuing to build trust and confidence, while letting love be the basis and foundation for all we do. Because of that, the idea of opening up far too wide in the beginning doesn't apply for me personally, and I can see where, if people are heading rapidly into relationships and play, there would be a concern of this. I have found that time and patience prevents too much exposure and vulnerability, too quickly - not only as far as BDSM limits go, but in all areas of a relationship. I'm not actually disagreeing with your post, but in reading it, I could understand the process he and I took, and why that was not an issue for us. hey! - yes, i remember a post of youres a while back, when you mentioned that things were going at a pace you both needed in order to build it strong. you know, im not even sure why i ever did let myself get bamboozled so fast at times. i just do find it difficult to deny/refuse when the request/expectation is there. i remember my exM going at a pace through the early stages and me just holding on. i couldnt do that now, i wouldnt want to. but at the time it was exciting. in that relationship i was 'no limits' from the get go - shaking head at self - nuts (for me, who is a wimp). thrown into the deep end i had to swim and that was exciting too. but, eventually, it all went horribly wrong. tortoise and the hare - im going to join the tortoise brigade [:)] so move over and make room for one more

HisEvelyn -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 12:24:21 PM)
Forgive me for interjecting here, but since it's mentioned in the opening post, hopefully I won't be spanked too badly. Still learning all these acronyms. What does WIITWD mean?

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 12:26:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn Forgive me for interjecting here, but since it's mentioned in the opening post, hopefully I won't be spanked too badly. Still learning all these acronyms. What does WIITWD mean? What it is that we do :)

UniqueRaven -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 12:26:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn What does WIITWD mean? "What It Is That We Do" - an all-inclusive acronym referring to all the "stuff" that we do associated with BDSM, D/s, M/s, etc., what have you.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 2:31:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika This is taken from a post I made on another thread but it has been rattling around in my head recently, simply wondering if the way I approach this is the norm or not. In the end, it won't change my way of doing things (well you never know ;-), but I ask more out of curiosity and with the hope of generating a discussion around this topic. Ideally, WIITWD is played out within the realm of negotiated limits, right? In my opinion yes, it is. That goes for casual, Devon and Miller "BDSM equivalent of a one-night stand" (interaction for a day & evening, weekend, week) to play at a club to an ongoing, building dynamic to an established dynamic...even if the negotiated limits are NO limits. For myself as a dominant, there are things I will not do with a submissive unless I am in a relationship with her. For example, I will not use "possessives" such as "MY girl/slut/whore/whatever" unless she IS mine in some fashion. I won't leave open wounds on a girl that is not mine. I don't do a lot of humiliation, other than "generic" humiliation discussed and agreed upon, with a girl that isn't mine. I won't use an extensive set of rules or rituals and/or protocols either unless it is a small list that enhances the time spent together. Those rituals and protocols designed to further the intimate/emotional/D-s connection ...which a lot of the ritual/protocol situations I've encountered and researched are...with someone meant to be a casual partner that I have no intention of ending up with, I avoid. IO have begun to consider in my head whether or not fisting is something I want to do with a casual play/fuck partner as fisting involves a great deal of trust and expertise...while I do have the expertise and the patience to do it right, is it right to expect a submissive that barely knows me to trust me to do it to her? I'll continue to work on that in my head. These are some of MY limits. quote: I classify hard limits into two categories 1) those that I don't find morally offensive but squick me (blood play, needles, scat) and 2) those that I find morally problematic (re: against the TOS). When I meet any play partner, the way I say it is here is what I like to do, and here are my hard limits. If we have the same hard limits, then we have no issues. If his scope of hard limits goes beyond the ones I find morally problematic, there are really good chances I won't date him. If they go beyond what squick me, there are good chances he may go without this kind of play, and if that is an issue for him, we will probably not get together. Now if his scope of hard limits is more narrow than mine, he needs to be open to exploring and expanding his hard limits. That is how I see things and I will not limit my play to cater to his limits, though I will be smart about things and ease him into things. Since I'm not that extreme, this has rarely been an issue. So yes, in what I'm saying above, some things might be done "against your will" as you say, which isn't the same as nonconsensually. Dominants, is this pretty much how you see things? I know it can come across as limiting, that a submissive couldn't help me explore a limit, but I figure I've been doing this long enough that I know which limits won't budge. What about the submissive who feels that THEY have been at it long enough that he/she feels that they know which limits won't budge on THEIR part? Why should it only be the submissive who has to be willing to expand their limits? Why is it that the submissive cannot look at the dominant and state "you know, Sir/Ma'am...I am willing to at least try and wrap my head around the thought of, and present myself for the delivery of, such-and-such play even though it squicks me. While I won't do those things I find morally reprehensible and do not expect you to do that which you find morally reprehensible, should the fact that you are squicked by doing something keep us from playing? Should you not be willing to look at the overall "me" and my wants/needs/desires and decide to honor at least some of them, even if it is hard for YOU?" I think they should. In the last couple of years, I have had the.................opportunity...to do a lot of thinking about my statement above and ones similar to yours. Such thinking has led me to expand my limits in several areas...some fairly easy and some? Well, some have been downright, fucking hard. Some have been gut-wrenching and heart-wrenching but worth at least the exploration because I could not find a moral objection. Emotional, reasoning ones...yes. But I could also see the reasons for such things to occur. Can I continue with such stretching of myself in the future? Only time and my own inner workings will tell me that. {/quote]

whiteslavebitch -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 3:38:48 PM)
MasterK and I have essentially the same "hard" limits. Things we will never do. There are things I don't much like, but wouldn't mind doing if MasterK wanted to do them. Other than the hard limits we share, and one that is mine alone (but I've been waffling on lately[&:]) MasterK can and will do as he pleases with me.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 4:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedreality I wanted to respond to LadyAngelika's post, regarding "baby steps have turned phobias into desires". From my own experience, baby steps can do this if it is done with patience (often great patience) and trust. having your limits twisted is a sign of true submission. Though, I detest the allegation that men who do not want to be sodomized are homophobic. It is what it is. Or, I should probably say, it was what it was. So many limits I thought were hard, I have found were not. Thank you for your contribution. You'll notice I wrote "often deeply rooted in homophobia", and I don't mean strong, active homophobia neither but rather latent, unconcious. And of course, I speak from my experience. As always, YMMV. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 4:25:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz I hope when you eventually get that little pinky in, you say 'wow look at you big boy, your taking my whole fist'! Damn! That would be a pretty ambitious evening! Thought I'm always amazed how quickly they adapt when they're turned on! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 4:29:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jstkrs When discussing pushing limits, I often reaffirm my trust in him by saying, "I know you won't break your toys." He answers with a sadistic grin, "No, but I'll bend it a little." Always gives me happy chills. I bet!! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 4:42:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant For myself as a dominant, there are things I will not do with a submissive unless I am in a relationship with her. Ok, let me clarify this. I should have specified that what I'm talking about is someone I'm going to be involved with in a committed relationship, which is really what I'm seeking at the moment. quote: What about the submissive who feels that THEY have been at it long enough that he/she feels that they know which limits won't budge on THEIR part? Why should it only be the submissive who has to be willing to expand their limits? Why is it that the submissive cannot look at the dominant and state "you know, Sir/Ma'am...I am willing to at least try and wrap my head around the thought of, and present myself for the delivery of, such-and-such play even though it squicks me. While I won't do those things I find morally reprehensible and do not expect you to do that which you find morally reprehensible, should the fact that you are squicked by doing something keep us from playing? Should you not be willing to look at the overall "me" and my wants/needs/desires and decide to honor at least some of them, even if it is hard for YOU?" I think they should. You make an excellent point. The thing is, there is a good chance that in the above situation, we will be incompatible. I'm not saying that if I truly fall for someone and there is something that they absolutely cannot do that I will throw the opportunity to have a wonderful relationship because of one act. But the reality is that I want what I want. I'm also very upfront about that and make no excuses for it. quote: In the last couple of years, I have had the.................opportunity...to do a lot of thinking about my statement above and ones similar to yours. Such thinking has led me to expand my limits in several areas...some fairly easy and some? Well, some have been downright, fucking hard. Some have been gut-wrenching and heart-wrenching but worth at least the exploration because I could not find a moral objection. Emotional, reasoning ones...yes. But I could also see the reasons for such things to occur. Can I continue with such stretching of myself in the future? Only time and my own inner workings will tell me that. Well I've been thinking about this for a while as well, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. So I absolutely appreciate the contribution. - LA

NuevaVida -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 8:41:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 hey! - hey back atcha! quote: you know, im not even sure why i ever did let myself get bamboozled so fast at times. i just do find it difficult to deny/refuse when the request/expectation is there. i remember my exM going at a pace through the early stages and me just holding on. i couldnt do that now, i wouldnt want to. but at the time it was exciting. Been there, done that myself before. I think we have matching tee-shirts. [8D] quote: tortoise and the hare - im going to join the tortoise brigade [:)] so move over and make room for one more There's definitely room for more on the tortoise brigade, lol. In fact, sometimes I found myself chomping at the bit, wanting to be a "hare" again, and he's the one saying tsk tsk tsk, be patient. And in retrospect, it's the best thing he could have done for both of us. So I'm pretty happy being a tortoise now.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/28/2010 9:17:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika If his scope of hard limits goes beyond the ones I find morally problematic, there are really good chances I won't date him. If they go beyond what squick me, there are good chances he may go without this kind of play, and if that is an issue for him, we will probably not get together. Now if his scope of hard limits is more narrow than mine, he needs to be open to exploring and expanding his hard limits. That is how I see things and I will not limit my play to cater to his limits, though I will be smart about things and ease him into things. Since I'm not that extreme, this has rarely been an issue. i never really place a lot of emphasis on limits (hard or soft). i tend to focus more on relationship and common interests. If we like similar things, and enjoy one another's company, then i am always open to trying new things. i basically only have two hard limits (besides the obvious ones like "no kids"): 1) No rodents in my rectum. 2) If it came out of YOUR rectum, i'm not eating it. Everything else is negotiable. There are things that i like more than others, and there are things that i'm not particularly fond of, but i always try to keep an open mind. For example, i'm not into hard-core S&M. Pain just isn't my thing. But it's not a hard limit either. If the Domme is into pain, then i'll go along with it. However, if sadism is Her primary interest, we usually find that we're incompatible. Not because it is a hard limit for me, but rather because i don't derive the same joy from it as She does. That's the dilemma with getting a sub to expand their limits. Even if you can get them to do what you want, it's still no fun if they are not enjoying it. So while you may not "limit your play to cater to his limits", you may nevertheless find that the two of you are incompatible because he just isn't enjoying the things that you are pushing him to try. Lack of enjoyment (by either party) can be just as big a barrier as "hard limits".

twistedreality -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 1:27:19 PM)
This is about the mind. Lines/limits shift in time and in respect to current reality.. What are precieved as hard limits, from a submissive view, can be adjusted. If I have learned nothing else, I have learned that I don't have as many hard limits as I thought I did. And that only truly core values do not adjust. the problem is we typically broadly define our hard limits, when infact they need precise definitions.In the beginning, I thought submitting my total self control to another was a hard limit.Under the right circumstances, even some of my hard limits could be changed. There are no absolutes. So, I have also learned that my perception of my own limits was not accurate. Constantly being pushed against those limits and being forced to constantly narrow their definition is quite a psychotic ride.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 2:17:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedreality This is about the mind. Lines/limits shift in time and in respect to current reality.. What are precieved as hard limits, from a submissive view, can be adjusted. If I have learned nothing else, I have learned that I don't have as many hard limits as I thought I did. And that only truly core values do not adjust. the problem is we typically broadly define our hard limits, when infact they need precise definitions.In the beginning, I thought submitting my total self control to another was a hard limit.Under the right circumstances, even some of my hard limits could be changed. There are no absolutes. So, I have also learned that my perception of my own limits was not accurate. Constantly being pushed against those limits and being forced to constantly narrow their definition is quite a psychotic ride. Well said twistedreality. Thanks for this :-) - LA

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 5:46:36 PM)
~fast reply~ I have a very few hard limits. (other than the obvy "I will not kill anyone") I will not sew or pin a person's eyes shut. I will not suffocate a person until they pass out. I will not cut off a body part. There's a few more in that vein, you get the idea Other than that... my limits are just PREFERENCES, stuff that I don't LIKE or WANT to do. Toilet play. Been there, didn't care for it, don't find it erotic. Medical play. Sorry, not my trip. Feminization? Um, no. Anyone who expects to play with me long-term and NOT find those mismatched likes served elsewhere (yay poly) will have to know that I am really not inclined to go to the places I dislike, and that dislike is based on experience, not whimsy. If a person is wild for ageplay and medical play, they might become my dear friend, but not my play partner. I can "tone down" my sadism, but a person who is just putting up with or enduring pain TOTALLY for me is not going to hold my interest. To me, it seems like there is a world of possibility in there, but to others, I am being very narrow. I suppose it depends on how much of a fetishist you are, and how vital getting THAT rush is to you. I have done a lot of things, but there is SO much left to learn and experience, and to me my limits are way out and preferences simple enough that kink compatibility should be much much easier to accomplish...

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 9:55:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ~fast reply~ I have a very few hard limits. (other than the obvy "I will not kill anyone") I will not sew or pin a person's eyes shut. I will not suffocate a person until they pass out. I will not cut off a body part. Well gee, you're no fun. [:D]

LadyAngelika -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 9:56:50 PM)
quote: I suppose it depends on how much of a fetishist you are, and how vital getting THAT rush is to you. I have done a lot of things, but there is SO much left to learn and experience, and to me my limits are way out and preferences simple enough that kink compatibility should be much much easier to accomplish... I guess one of my kinks is pushing the limits of an Alpha Male... and since they love challenges for the most part, it ends up being hot. - LA

pyroaquatic -> RE: Limits & Compatibility (1/29/2010 10:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: I suppose it depends on how much of a fetishist you are, and how vital getting THAT rush is to you. I have done a lot of things, but there is SO much left to learn and experience, and to me my limits are way out and preferences simple enough that kink compatibility should be much much easier to accomplish... I guess one of my kinks is pushing the limits of an Alpha Male... and since they love challenges for the most part, it ends up being hot. - LA I do like having my limits pushed, endurance-wise. How many strikes can I take before I give in? How many more repetitions of this particular task?-sweat- -sweat--push push-You want me to scissor off your lawn so that every blade is 45 millimeters?-snip snip-Copy this dictionary down verbatim?-scribble scramble-how long can I stay perfectly still for? in this position? You want me to twist WHAT?! i'm not sure i can do that, but i'll try. isolation from light, sound, and human interaction for 72 hours? Who is the driver in this madness, they need more gas. :D oh look i can do it. shut off my brain and bam! even emeril is cooking. I guess there are those in life that ride the edge, grinding and striving for 'perfect' when they are not sure what perfect is. ha... no-limits. The end of one edge is a start of another. boundaries twist and blur. to define this essence is like catching effervescence, the scope of actual limitations. a lifespan is limited and soon to be incompatible with anything. Live it, push it, and learn. That is about all I can do. besides sleep right now. Night Y'all.

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