Myths and falsehoods about the deficit

Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (Full Version)

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Brain -> Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 10:56:17 AM)
I think these myths grow primarily to help the wealthy and the Republican Party, not to help the American people. After all, Republicans and Democrats did not do much recently to help Main Street. I hope people vote for independents in the future. Myths and falsehoods about the deficit In recent months, media figures have advanced a litany of false and dubious claims regarding deficits and public debt. In addition to promoting the false narrative that portrays Republicans as responsible budget stewards and Democrats as fiscally reckless, these claims advance the argument that the administration should cut spending and focus on balancing the budget in the short term, a position rejected by numerous economists who advocate for continued stimulus spending. Myth: Obama is to blame for the 2009 deficit FACT: Majority of FY 2009 deficit attributed to Bush policies Myth: Health care reform is too expensive, given the deficit FACT: CBO projected Senate, House health bills would reduce deficit Myth: Wars, tax cuts don't count toward current deficit and debt projections FACT: Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Bush tax cuts contributed significantly to debt Myth: Deficit reduction would help to create jobs FACT: Past efforts to address deficits before full recovery cited for further economic decline; economists say deficits are helping Baker: Stock market, housing crashes, and wars "explain the vast majority of the deterioration in the budget situation in the last decade." http://mediamatters.org/research/201001270030

pahunkboy -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 11:00:14 AM)
Walter Buriun.

AnimusRex -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 1:57:45 PM)
Myth #5: Lower taxes increases revenue (AKA "Supply Side Economics") Here is Bruce Bartlett, one of Ronald reagan's economic advisors, and one of the architects of supply side economics: "The supply-siders are to a large extent responsible for this mess, myself included. We opened Pandora's Box when we got the Republican Party to abandon the balanced budget as its signature economic policy and adopt tax cuts as its raison d'être. In particular, the idea that tax cuts will "starve the beast" and automatically shrink the size of government is extremely pernicious. Indeed, by destroying the balanced budget constraint, starve-the-beast theory actually opened the flood gates of spending. As I explained in a recent column, a key reason why deficits restrained spending in the past is because they led to politically unpopular tax increases. But if, as Republicans now maintain, taxes must never be increased at any time for any reason then there is never any political cost to raising spending and cutting taxes at the same time, as the Bush 43 administration and a Republican Congress did year after year." On a related note, President Obama in his SOTU recommended reinstituting Pay As You Go spending, where all spending bills are required to be matched by tax revenue. The PAYGO bill was passed on a straight party line vote, with every single Republican voting against it.

mnottertail -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 2:23:31 PM)
republicans are spend and borrow, always have been, always will be, there is no tomorrow when you want to wage war on any nation that disagrees with you to 'protect' american freedom, while at the same time 'protecting' the invades liberties. LOL. unintended consequences, that was the jingle running around last year, wannit? Ron

AnimusRex -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 2:28:20 PM)
The Republicans were the party of adults at one time, the party whose slogan was "There is no free lunch", the party of sober fiscal discipline. That changed on Jan 20, 1980 when they discovered that it was more fun and politically popular to be the "Double Santa Claus" party; the party that gave tax cuts with one hand, and benefits with the other.

Musicmystery -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 3:24:57 PM)
When Republicans start talking about the need to raise taxes and Democrats start talking about the need to cut spending, then we will have the possibility of bipartisanship and some solutions. It ain't rocket science. Any idiot can tell you that's what's needed to balance any budget, especially when it's a huge gap. You need more coming in, less going out. And until the partisan parrots stop screaming at the other side as the problem, it's all just bullshit, and the deficit will grow.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 3:56:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery When Republicans start talking about the need to raise taxes and Democrats start talking about the need to cut spending, then we will have the possibility of bipartisanship and some solutions. It ain't rocket science. Any idiot can tell you that's what's needed to balance any budget, especially when it's a huge gap. You need more coming in, less going out. And until the partisan parrots stop screaming at the other side as the problem, it's all just bullshit, and the deficit will grow. Cutting taxes and cutting government spending will reduce the deficit far sooner and more powerfully than increasing either.

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 4:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery When Republicans start talking about the need to raise taxes and Democrats start talking about the need to cut spending, then we will have the possibility of bipartisanship and some solutions. It ain't rocket science. Any idiot can tell you that's what's needed to balance any budget, especially when it's a huge gap. You need more coming in, less going out. And until the partisan parrots stop screaming at the other side as the problem, it's all just bullshit, and the deficit will grow. I'm not so sure about the raising taxes part, but other than that, I agree. There are really only two good ways to go, though. Raise taxes and have big government or lower taxes and have smaller government. If you lower taxes and spend like an eighteen-year-old girl with Daddy's credit card, you're gonna screw up big time...like Bush.

Musicmystery -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 4:06:16 PM)
Alas, magic money doesn't fall from the sky. And not all spending can or should be cut. We have programs for good reason. Even the most cynical observer can point to necessary spending. It will also take increased revenue. The Reagan magic trickle doesn't work. We've already tried that.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 4:08:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Alas, magic money doesn't fall from the sky. And not all spending can or should be cut. We have programs for good reason. Even the most cynical observer can point to necessary spending. It will also take increased revenue. The Reagan magic trickle doesn't work. We've already tried that. We've tried it at least 3 times, and every time it has worked.

Real0ne -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 5:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery When Republicans start talking about the need to raise taxes and Democrats start talking about the need to cut spending, then we will have the possibility of bipartisanship and some solutions. It ain't rocket science. Any idiot can tell you that's what's needed to balance any budget, especially when it's a huge gap. You need more coming in, less going out. And until the partisan parrots stop screaming at the other side as the problem, it's all just bullshit, and the deficit will grow. the irony of it all! Like right after I posted the american dream in another thread. See the way I look at it is why not just get rid of one of the parties? That way we will always have bipartisan cooperation and we wont have to listen to them bicker while the deficit climbs.

DarkSteven -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 5:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Alas, magic money doesn't fall from the sky. And not all spending can or should be cut. We have programs for good reason. Even the most cynical observer can point to necessary spending. It will also take increased revenue. The Reagan magic trickle doesn't work. We've already tried that. We've tried it at least 3 times, and every time it has worked. Funny, I could swear that when Bush tried it early in his presidency, the economy crashed and burned.

Jeffff -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 5:57:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Alas, magic money doesn't fall from the sky. And not all spending can or should be cut. We have programs for good reason. Even the most cynical observer can point to necessary spending. It will also take increased revenue. The Reagan magic trickle doesn't work. We've already tried that. We've tried it at least 3 times, and every time it has worked. May I have 3 examples please?

luckydawg -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 5:59:56 PM)
Dark steven something else was chrashed and burned early in Bushes Presidency. Can you honestly pretend it did not have a massive negative effect on our economy?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:04:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Alas, magic money doesn't fall from the sky. And not all spending can or should be cut. We have programs for good reason. Even the most cynical observer can point to necessary spending. It will also take increased revenue. The Reagan magic trickle doesn't work. We've already tried that. We've tried it at least 3 times, and every time it has worked. Funny, I could swear that when Bush tried it early in his presidency, the economy crashed and burned. Youre joking right? Not only didnt it crash and burn, it survived the Clinton recession and 9/11 and grew over 2.5% per year despite them until the Dem engineered housing bubble burst. Unemployment during his adminstration was lower than unemployment under Clinton, who had the benefit of a fictitious dot com economy, and at least had the good sense to cut capital gains taxes. The Dow continued the growth started by the Reagan tax cuts and reached its all time high. Crashed and burned, roflmfao.

DarkSteven -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:05:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Dark steven something else was chrashed and burned early in Bushes Presidency. Can you honestly pretend it did not have a massive negative effect on our economy? Willbe's post stated unequivocally that cutting taxes stimulates the economy. I was citing a counterexample. I know in the case of my company at the time (Sun Microsystems), there would have been a layoff anyway. The deteriorating economy due to 9/11 was blamed, but the layoff wasn't due to 9/11, although 9/11 may have worsened it. 9/11 also produced two wars and the TSA. That should have stimulated the economy as well. But it didn't. As before, I'm just sayin' that tax cuts and trickle down do not guarantee a magic boost to the economy.

tazzygirl -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:16:13 PM)
The nation's gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity, rose at a 5.7% annual rate in the fourth quarter. That was much stronger than expected and provides another sign that a recovery in the economy is taking hold. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had forecast growth of 4.7%. Good end to a terrible year. The growth in the fourth quarter was the highest since the third quarter of 2003. The economy rose at a 2.2% annual pace in the third quarter of last year. But even with the strong growth in the second half of 2009, the economy shrunk by 2.4% last year. That was the biggest drop in 63 years and first annual decline for the economy since 1991. The GDP report does not mark an official end of the recession. That determination will be made by the National Bureau of Economic Research, and that group typically waits months -- if not more than a year -- to declare when recessions ended and began. But two straight quarters of economic growth is typically a sign of a recovery, and most economists agree that the recession ended at some point in the middle of 2009. The Federal Reserve even used the word "recovery" in the statement following its latest meeting earlier this week. http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/29/news/economy/gdp/

AnimusRex -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:17:10 PM)
Cutting taxes and increasing spending actually have a similar effect; They either allow more cash to be kept in consumer hands, or increasing the amount of money circulating in the economy. During times of recession, both of these acts can stimulate the economy, encouraging people to buy more, and thus create jobs. Good, right? Not always. If the tax cuts are not matched by spending cuts, we will have to borrow to cover the deficit. So cutting taxes by a dollar is the same as increasing spending by a dollar, if you have to borrow the dollar. Everyone talks about shrinking the size of government, but no one really wants to do it. When pressed, very few politicians will actully name a program or agency that should have its budget reduced. Especially since 3 Trillion of the 3.5 trillion we spend, is spent on Medicare, Social Security, and Defense/ Homeland Security. These three divisons of the government are politically untouchable, by both parties. So Tim is right, until there is some will to cut spending, or raise taxes, or both, we will continue to have deficits. I have suggested before that there are reasonable ways to cut SS and Medicare, as well as raising taxes modestly. But we have to get over the thinking that there is somehow a painless easy way to do it.

kittinSol -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:19:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery When Republicans start talking about the need to raise taxes and Democrats start talking about the need to cut spending, then we will have the possibility of bipartisanship and some solutions. It ain't rocket science. Any idiot can tell you that's what's needed to balance any budget, especially when it's a huge gap. You need more coming in, less going out. And until the partisan parrots stop screaming at the other side as the problem, it's all just bullshit, and the deficit will grow. the irony of it all! Like right after I posted the american dream in another thread. See the way I look at it is why not just get rid of one of the parties? That way we will always have bipartisan cooperation and we wont have to listen to them bicker while the deficit climbs. You're off your face. You are crazy. You need help. Please get help. We know you won't but still, we beg you to get help. Please.

luckydawg -> RE: Myths and falsehoods about the deficit (1/29/2010 6:21:03 PM)
The economy continued to grow despite 911. How do you figure that the TSA stimulates the economy? It was a huge drag on it. As was all the $ spent on security. As was the stoppage of Air travell for over a week (that took billions out of the economy) Tourism dried up for most of a year. Why would the war stimulate the economy? That theory has been shown over and over to only work in some situations, not the one we are in (We are not at total war, with pent up demand.) This gets into opinion, but I think that the economy did get a boost by the tax cuts. It suffered a huge hit by 911. And continued to grow, because of the tax cuts.

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