RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/30/2010 10:45:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


If we do not strive to the stars we will eventually be doomed to extinction...we can do both at the same time don't you think?




Real0ne -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/30/2010 11:25:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


well if for no other reason those whom we hold in trust to operate as the officiators of government et al. would have lied to us hence breaking or in violation of that trust.

aside from that, this is not a subject I was ever really interested in but if what they say about the van allen belt is true and it does exist between here and the moon then it would have been impossible for them to do what they said unless specific measures were taken to eliminate the dangers of radiation which I expect would have been a major talking  point and as my recollection was never mentioned during the drama.






willbeurdaddy -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/30/2010 11:26:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Given that the Dems and Reps are voting in blocks on this, on opposite sides, if the speeches reflect their opinions, that's another issue that bugs me.

This stuff belongs on that other thread, though, not this one.


Why would that bug you? There are huge ideological divides with a POTUS/legislation that is pushing monumental changes and doesnt know how to compromise. That is going to polarize opinions, and has nothing to do with lobbyists.




DomKen -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 12:12:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


well if for no other reason those whom we hold in trust to operate as the officiators of government et al. would have lied to us hence breaking or in violation of that trust.

aside from that, this is not a subject I was ever really interested in but if what they say about the van allen belt is true and it does exist between here and the moon then it would have been impossible for them to do what they said unless specific measures were taken to eliminate the dangers of radiation which I expect would have been a major talking  point and as my recollection was never mentioned during the drama.

You, as usual, have no idea what you're talking about.

The charged particles contained in the Van Allen are fairly safe. The belt also isn't a perfect sphere but is sort of a teardrop facing away from the Sun. The most intense area is the inner belt which the crews passed through in the shielded command module, although even the thin metallic skin of the lunar modules provided signficant protection from the charged particles involved. Once out side the inner belt the crew was in an area called the "safe zone" which is mostly free of radiation, it extends outward from the earth about 3 earth radii which is about 10% of the distance to the moon. After passing through the outer belt, much weaker than the inner, the only radiation source of any signifigance is the solar wind which is of no concern unless there is a major solar flare.

The inner belt is by far the most radioactive place anywhere near Earth and it starts at a paltry 100km above the surface. If we couldn't survivie there then all manned flights would have had to have been faked and satellites would not be reliable as their electronics are far more vulnerable to ionizing radiation than a person is.




Real0ne -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 12:26:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


well if for no other reason those whom we hold in trust to operate as the officiators of government et al. would have lied to us hence breaking or in violation of that trust.

aside from that,
this is not a subject I was ever really interested in but if what they say about the van allen belt is true and it does exist between here and the moon then it would have been impossible for them to do what they said unless specific measures were taken to eliminate the dangers of radiation which I expect would have been a major talking  point and as my recollection was never mentioned during the drama.

You, as usual, have no idea what you're talking about.

The charged particles contained in the Van Allen are fairly safe. The belt also isn't a perfect sphere but is sort of a teardrop facing away from the Sun. The most intense area is the inner belt which the crews passed through in the shielded command module, although even the thin metallic skin of the lunar modules provided signficant protection from the charged particles involved. Once out side the inner belt the crew was in an area called the "safe zone" which is mostly free of radiation, it extends outward from the earth about 3 earth radii which is about 10% of the distance to the moon. After passing through the outer belt, much weaker than the inner, the only radiation source of any signifigance is the solar wind which is of no concern unless there is a major solar flare.

The inner belt is by far the most radioactive place anywhere near Earth and it starts at a paltry 100km above the surface. If we couldn't survivie there then all manned flights would have had to have been faked and satellites would not be reliable as their electronics are far more vulnerable to ionizing radiation than a person is.


you know if you were not such a condescending fucking asshole and purposefully mischaracterize what I say to use as an attack against me in retaliation for kicking your ass around the block in the other thread I might even thank you for that morsel of information.

However it never has been an interest for me and likely never will be.







NihilusZero -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 12:40:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Have you guys seen this TED talk, Why People Believe Strange Things?

I own his book. [:)]




NorthernGent -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 2:16:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The idea that there is something bigger going on........henceforth affording people a reason for being.

And, even more powerful, the idea that they have uncovered the mastermind plot.



There's also, I think, that people would rather believe cool ideas than simply the truth. It's a lot more fun.

Have you guys seen this TED talk, Why People Believe Strange Things? Especially the end, the Stairway to Heaven backwards messages--we think we see and hear for ourselves, but truth is, we see and hear readily what we're told to look for.

Heads up for marketing and politics.



It's been understood that things aren't necessarily what they seem for centuries. John Locke contended that we're easily impressed with the packaging. David Hume used the simple example (among others) of placing your hand in a fire (the actual effect of placing your hand in a fire and the imagined effect of placing your hand in a fire) to contend that our impression of an event doesn't necessarily match reality and it follows thus we can easily be led astray into thinking our ideas correspond to something in the world (something experienced) when in fact they are mere fictions/products of the imagination. In addition Hume contended that we go beyond experience by thinking causally - but the thinking underpinning this is custom and habit rather than reason (with important implications for the nature of our actions).

A fair illustration of being led astray are the real experiences of the French and Russian revolutions (and other revolutions around the world) where people come to believe they are virtuous human beings with the answers on what it means to be a human being and the system needed to fit such an answer. Of course all they really know is their personal experiences and perceptions of the world - so logically others will reject their position and do - which is where coercion comes in and the circle is squared (they are the tyrants they deposed - no better/no worse - another group of human beings with the capacity for delusion/self promotion/power mania).

But this is a very uncomfortable position for many to adopt because it suggests the huamn being is a constantly changing bundle of perceptions rather than an enduring self - which has important implications for identity and meaning - and belief systems.




NorthernGent -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 2:22:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


well if for no other reason those whom we hold in trust to operate as the officiators of government et al. would have lied to us hence breaking or in violation of that trust.

aside from that, this is not a subject I was ever really interested in but if what they say about the van allen belt is true and it does exist between here and the moon then it would have been impossible for them to do what they said unless specific measures were taken to eliminate the dangers of radiation which I expect would have been a major talking  point and as my recollection was never mentioned during the drama.



Your call Real0ne......but I'd say life is too short to make a hobby out of contesting government lies.....I mean what's your aim here - to have the whole world tell the truth? Personally I think it's a better use of a life to build a family and a career.....life's too short mate.




NorthernGent -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 2:32:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


If we do not strive to the stars we will eventually be doomed to extinction...we can do both at the same time don't you think?


I doubt it - human beings have the capacity to change with the environment.

I'm curious on what the objective is with such theories. Find 'the truth' - I doubt that - were people to find 'the truth' they'd be pretty pissed off because it's the puzzle that keeps people occupied.




eyesopened -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 4:32:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

There's also, I think, that people would rather believe cool ideas than simply the truth. It's a lot more fun.

Have you guys seen this TED talk, Why People Believe Strange Things? Especially the end, the Stairway to Heaven backwards messages--we think we see and hear for ourselves, but truth is, we see and hear readily what we're told to look for.

Heads up for marketing and politics.


Not to mention just a whole lot easier to believe what someone has told us than to discover or experience things for ourselves.  The path of least resistance seems to be the path most travelled.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 6:53:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?

It's the only advertising space left.

FR:

I think the flag waving about was just caused by people jumping about on the moon surface, can't they walk like normal people? That and existing momentum when the flag was first placed. A body in motion will continue in the same direction until acted upon by an external force such as caused by the elasticity of the material. Some people have no imagination of the forces in the physical world around us, so used to gravity as reality they can’t imagine what effect the lessoning of such a predominant force will have on the motion of objects due to other less significant forces.

I pity da fool.




Real0ne -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 7:43:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?

It's the only advertising space left.

FR:

I think the flag waving about was just caused by people jumping about on the moon surface, can't they walk like normal people? That and existing momentum when the flag was first placed. A body in motion will continue in the same direction until acted upon by an external force such as caused by the elasticity of the material. Some people have no imagination of the forces in the physical world around us, so used to gravity as reality they can’t imagine what effect the lessoning of such a predominant force will have on the motion of objects due to other less significant forces.

I pity da fool.


gravity gets a lot more credit than it deserves now days




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 7:50:54 AM)

Gravity is a weak force in some respects and takes little to overcome but when considering the motion of objects it is always considered as one of the biggest factors causing retardation of motion. The flag on earth falls flat when no wind is present so you can’t easily see how the strain energy is dissipated throughout the surface of the flag as the material finds equilibrium in terms of the free motion of the flag in one direction (due to an existing applied force) versus the horizontal resistance offered by the flag pole fixed in space (unable to move).

You have to imagine, some can’t easily do that because gravity is one of the first things a child gets to grips with in terms of understanding how objects move as the result of an applied force.




Real0ne -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 7:57:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


well if for no other reason those whom we hold in trust to operate as the officiators of government et al. would have lied to us hence breaking or in violation of that trust.

aside from that, this is not a subject I was ever really interested in but if what they say about the van allen belt is true and it does exist between here and the moon then it would have been impossible for them to do what they said unless specific measures were taken to eliminate the dangers of radiation which I expect would have been a major talking  point and as my recollection was never mentioned during the drama.



Your call Real0ne......but I'd say life is too short to make a hobby out of contesting government lies.....I mean what's your aim here - to have the whole world tell the truth? Personally I think it's a better use of a life to build a family and a career.....life's too short mate.


well in the colony known as america (no mercy to the sheep) "regardless of how it is advertised", a group of guys threw a curve ball into the works that really pisses off the boss.

Now when people come to realize its all about the contract, the law of the sea has come to the land they can take to the courts and fight the system, (and win) with a barrel of the pen rather than the barrel of the gun.

The problem is that most of these cases are sealed from the public.  Some are not.  Most are as a matter of "public policy".

It is the duty of every american to take my approach.  Without people like me the constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper rather than the rules we set forth for government.

Incidentally where in the constitution does it say the people have to do anything?  :)




rulemylife -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 8:13:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Gravity is a weak force in some respects and takes little to overcome but when considering the motion of objects it is always considered as one of the biggest factors causing retardation of motion. The flag on earth falls flat when no wind is present so you can’t easily see how the strain energy is dissipated throughout the surface of the flag as the material finds equilibrium in terms of the free motion of the flag in one direction (due to an existing applied force) versus the horizontal resistance offered by the flag pole fixed in space (unable to move).

You have to imagine, some can’t easily do that because gravity is one of the first things a child gets to grips with in terms of understanding how objects move as the result of an applied force.



Gravity is just a hoax that Newton created to make money.

And the lie has been perpetuated for centuries by greedy scientists making money from this scam.





SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 8:25:04 AM)

Quite but second only to the conspiracy of Hooke's law.[:D]




TheHeretic -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 8:52:10 AM)

Looks like an interesting read, Muse. 




Musicmystery -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 8:54:32 AM)

People just don't appreciate gravity.

Or its inverse, comedy.




pahunkboy -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 9:32:30 AM)

Then it is settled- from this day forward- no one, no how, ever, will here forth question- authority- in any sense of the word.

We shall be filled with bliss.




Musicmystery -> RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histories" (1/31/2010 11:12:33 AM)

What a strange person you are.

And what strange conclusions you draw.

Perhaps--and this is just a suggestion--read the book before you refute it?

And btw...I didn't write it. I'm just saying it looks like an interesting read.

Your gravity may vary.




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